Volume 17 Number 78
                       Produced: Sun Jan  8  0:34:02 1995

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Cameras on  Shabbos
         [Ari Shapiro]
Celebrating birthdates
         [Richard Friedman]
Conservative/Reform Marriages
         [Yechiel Pisem]
Hallel/al hanissim
         [Dr. Herbert Taragin]
Insurance pmt 4 circumcision.
         [Gilad J. Gevaryahu]
Mostly 19-Year Cycle and the Codes in Torah
         [Stan Tenen]
Motion Sensors
         [Janice Gelb]
Rav Moshe's Birthday
         [Jay H. Solomont]
sridei aish
         [Binyomin Segal]
         [Michael J Broyde]


From: <m-as4153@...> (Ari Shapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 95 22:39:47 -0500
Subject: Cameras on  Shabbos

<The question I want to pose to MJ is as follows - On shabbat, is one
<allowed to pass a video camera that is working - EG, a security camera
<that is in the lobby of one's building that is on 24H a day, because as
<one passes the camera, one's image is placed on a TV monitor.  On the
<other hand, the person does not wish to have his image placed on the
<screen.  Another part of the question is if one is walking down the
<street, and say, Radio Shack has it's TV video on, and your picture is
<imaged on the TV set as you walk by, should you cross the street.  I
<heard a part of a drasha by Rabbi Miller of PGH PA, quoting Rav Henkin
<of Baltimore, saying that it is mostly Assur (not permitted), except in
<rare need.  He also quoted another gadol saying it was completely Mutar
<(permissible).  Any thoughts?

<Even further, those electric lights that have motion sensors that people
<place by their doorways, that go on as you pass them - what should one
<do on Shabbat?

The fact that you don't care to have your image on the monitor is irrelevant
because we pasken that a psik reisha d'lo nicha lei (an action that will 
definately occur which you do not want to occur) is prohibited.  The case of 
the security lights is worse because there turning the light on is a torah
prohibition where as the security camera is probably only a rabbinic
prohibition and there are leniencies by a psik reisha d'lo nicha leih hh
where the prohibition is only rabbinic.
Ari Shapiro


From: Richard Friedman <RF@...>
Date: 06 Jan 1995 10:55:10 GMT
Subject: Celebrating birthdates

     Ari Zivotofsky asks (MJ 17:75) about the appropriate date for
celebrating the birthday of Rav Moshe Feinstein z"l.  I would raise the
question of whether it is ever appropriate to celebrate/observe the
birthday of a deceased prominent Jew.  If so, which ones is it appropriate
to observe?  When we mark the 7th of Adar in connection with Moshe
(Rabbeinu), aren't we marking it primarily as his yahrzeit, and only
incidentally as his birthday?  I once heard that Jews preserve the
death-dates, rather than the birth-dates, of their heroes because only at
the point of death can one look back and assess the person's
accomplishments.  So:  a) To what degree do we preserve birthdates?  b) Has
anyone else heard the justification that I recall hearing?


From: Yechiel Pisem <ypisem@...>
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 21:31:07 -0500 (est)
Subject: Conservative/Reform Marriages

On the subject of marriages performed by Conservative/Reform Rabbis:

The 1st Mishnah in Kiddushin says that there are 3 ways to get married: 
through 1>the giving of money, 2>the writing of a document, and 3>through 
having sexual relations with the intent of causing a marriage.  The 
Gemara (I believe) says that in our times, the 3rd method is not to be 
used because of a possible problem of immorality.  However, if a C/R 
marriage were to be performed in a way unacceptable according to Halacha, 
would their having relations cause a marriage to take place and force a 
Get for separation?  Any feedback is welcome.

Kol Tuv and Gut Shabbos,
Yechiel Pisem


From: Dr. Herbert Taragin <taragin@...>
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 21:05:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Hallel/al hanissim

In response to a recent posting about why we do or do not say Hallel, 
there is a nice explanation that also answers why we do not say Al 
Hanissim  on Pesach  or other Yom Tovim, as well as why we don't say 
THE OTHER REASONS GIVEN. A hidden miracle (nase nistar) requires the 
saying of Al Hanissim to make us realize that it was Hashem who gave us 
the salvation and not just our own strengths. For this reason  we must
also publicize the nase by lighting candles IN PUBLIC or reading the 
Megillah.   With an open miracle (nase niglah) we do not require
Al Hanissim because the exodus, the revelation, and the ananei hakovod 
(Hashem's cloud) were obvious to all. Therefore on the sholosh regolim, we  
only say Hallel which is praise and thanks to Hashem , but not Al hanissim. 
On Purim we say only Al hanissim and not Hallel because it was totally 
a nase nistar. On Chanukah which has elements of both nistar 
and niglah, we therefore say both Hallel and Al Hanissim. The saying of 
Hallel on Rosh Chodesh is a later minhag and is a separate issue.
Hoping readers enjoy this    Dr. Herbert Taragin


From: <Gevaryahu@...> (Gilad J. Gevaryahu)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 14:56:05 -0500
Subject: Insurance pmt 4 circumcision.

We have seen many opinions (most of MJ17#75 issue) that one should not
collect medical insurance for circumcision. The main reason given was
that circumcision is done for a Mitzvah, and not for a medical purpose.

I beg to differ. Although circumcision is done primarily for the mitzvah
(i.e., I would have circumcised my four boys whether or not it was good for
medicinal purposes) it is nonetheless good (according to many pediatricians)
for medical reasons. I understand from my wife, the pediatrician, that there
are some in the medical community who do not share this view.

We collect from medical insurance for any procedure which is covered by the
policy, regardless if the primary purpose of the procedure is medical,
cosmetic, religious or misanthropic.

With my second boy (the first one was circumcised by a friend), I followed
this logic and applied for reimbursement from my medical  insurance carrier.
I did it after the circumcision since I would have circumcised my son,
because of the mitzvah, regardless of the insurance coverage.

The insurance company first rejected the claim because "they pay only to
doctors"; I fired back that this statement was untrue as they also paid to
nurses, midwifes etc. They rejected the claim for the second time because the
mohel is not trained in this procedure medically"; I fired back that he is
better trained than MDs, and did thousands of these procedure, more than any
MD I know of. They rejected the claim for the third time saying that the
mohel "did not carry malpractice insurance"; I fired back a copy of his
policy. They couldn't come up with more excuses and paid. But they paid the
amount which is customarily paid to doctors to perform the circumcision, much
less than what the mohel collected. Note that some mohalim refuse to be paid
because they do circumcisions only for the mitzvah. Some might argue now,
that we should not pay mohalim? This battle with the insurance company was
for the principle, and was not repeated with my third and fourth boys. I must
confess that I got tired.

Shabbat Shalom,
Gilad J. Gevaryahu


From: Stan Tenen <meru1@...>
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 18:02:04 -0800
Subject: Mostly 19-Year Cycle and the Codes in Torah

In m-j 17,72 Ed Cohen discusses the relationship between the lunar and 
solar years.  It is interesting to note that there is a direct 
relationship between the 19-year lunar cycle and the 12-month solar 
cycle.  The 3,19 Torus knot has 19-loops in its normal toroidal form and 
consists of exactly 12-"Hands" in its inverted "Continuous Creation" or 
"idealized fruit" form. (These are _precisely_ the same "Tefillin-hands" 
that make all of the Hebrew letters that I have discussed previously.)  
The tetrahelical column representing the braiding pattern of this knot 
is made up of exactly twice the number of tetrahedra as the 3,10 Torus 
knot.  (198-Tetrahedra)  IF the letters of the Torah were to be written 
out, one letter per tetrahedron, on either of these forms, the letters 
that make up the majority of the equal interval skip patterns discovered 
by statistical methods would line up in concentric bands.  The 
statisticians propose that the equal interval skip patterns can be seen 
when the Torah is written out on a cylindrical array, but no reason - 
other than practicality -  is given for doing this. (See page 6 of the 
Witztum, Rips, Rosenberg paper on Equal Interval Skip patterns.  I have 
a draft of this paper sent to Prof. Mike Klass (Statistics) at UC 
Berkeley by Prof. Rips at HU in February 1994.)   It seems arbitrary - 
although the patterns do imply that there is something "cylindrical" 
that the Torah is wound on.  The Torus knot models of Continuous 
Creation that we found by pairing letters in B'Reshit geometrically seem 
to explain how and why the equal interval skip patterns _ought_ to make 
it appear that Torah may be written on a cylindrical column.  That is 
what a tetrahelical column is.  Except we are not working with an 
arbitrary column implied by statistical patterns.  We have found an 
explicit, unique and meaningful form of "cylinder"  (the braided 
tetrahelical core of the Torus knots that defines the sequence of Hebrew 
letters in the alphabet and in B'Reshit) that may explain the equal 
interval patterns.  

Further, the Torus knots (and thus the equal interval skip patterns) 
seem to be equivalent to the orbital paths of the visible planetary 
bodies (which would include the moon) and constellations - which must 
have been known in order for us to understand the calendar as well as we 
have.  (We also know that the Sumerians, Egyptians, Babylonians, and 
Greeks had similarly sophisticated knowledge of "heavenly cycles" and 
the calendar even though they may have made different choices and have 
understood what they were doing in pagan or idolatrous terms.)  

Of course, we know that Torah _literally_ projects all of this reality.  
Even if this is difficult to demonstrate unambiguously at the word and 
story level, it appears to be explicitly demonstrable at the letter 
level of Torah.

As usual (<smile>) I have a draft paper that outlines some of this.  If 
anyone would like to see this, please email your postal address and we 
will send an introductory packet of information.  (Those who have 
received previous packets that did not include the draft paper "PaRDeS", 
should also request this if they are interested.)

Good Shabbos,


From: <janiceg@...> (Janice Gelb)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 08:07:05 -0800
Subject: Motion Sensors

  Philip Ledereic asks:
> Even further, those electric lights that have motion sensors that people
> place by their doorways, that go on as you pass them - what should one
> do on Shabbat?

This was discussed on another forum and someone brought a heter that
since the sensor going on is a secondary act (you are not walking in
front of it in order to turn the light on), you are not mechallel
Shabbat if the light goes on.

Janice Gelb                  | The only connection Sun has with this      
<janiceg@...>   | message is the return address. 


From: Jay H. Solomont <chaimz@...>
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 15:08:33 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Re: Rav Moshe's Birthday

the following is a brief response to the question raised regarding
the birthday of rav moshe tz"l
The year of Rav Moshe's birth was "TRN"H" and 
was definitely a year in which there was only one Adar.

   Jay H. Solomont P.O.B. 4507 Jerusalem 91044 Is T 972-2-610-490 F 610-510


From: <bsegal@...> (Binyomin Segal)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 00:37:44 -0600
Subject: sridei aish

Yakov Zalman Friedman <bfriedman@...> mentioned a tshuva from the
sridei aish. I've been trying to find a set of the sridei aish's
responsa for purchase for quite a few years. they seem to be permanently
out of print. if anyone knows where i might get a set, id appreciate the



From: Michael J Broyde <relmb@...>
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 22:06:15 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Udder

One of the writers states that "people used to eat the udder of a
 cow and treated it as parve".
	I beleive that is a mistake; see YD 74:1, and Aruch HaShulchan YD 
74:3. where it is clear that the udder is considered meat.  For a 
discussion of the parve parts of an animal, see YD 81.
Michael Broyde


End of Volume 17 Issue 78