Volume 18 Number 11
                       Produced: Wed Jan 25 16:49:34 1995

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Checking out tzeddakah recipients
         [Micha Berger]
Eruv scenarios
         [Warren Burstein]
Hazon Ish on Moshe Rabbenu's Torah
         [Shalom Carmy]
Hebrew and Canaanite
         [Mike Gerver]
Insurance payment for brit milah
         [Ezra L Tepper]
Japanese-Jewish Relations
         [Bobby Fogel]
         [Erwin Katz]
Kohen marrying a divorcee
         [Michael Lipkin]
Kosher rennet
         [Jeremy Nussbaum]
Premeditated "Desire"
         [Gary Fischer]
Pronunciation of Moshzar
         [Yechezkel Schatz]
Woman's Weapons
         [Israel Medad - Knesset]
Women and observance
         [Cathleen London]


From: Micha Berger <berger@...>
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 95 10:47:34 -0500
Subject: Checking out tzeddakah recipients

DISCLAIMER: There seems to have been two leaders of the Jewish people
during the 70s and early 80s that tend to get confused: R. Moshe
Feinstein zt"l, and ybchl"ch R. Moshe Says. I realized that the two
were distinct when I noticed how many quotes that started "R. Moshe
Says..." were in exact contradition to the words of the Igros
Moshe. BTW, R. Moshe Says is still very much alive -- I hear new Torah
in his name regularly! :-)
With that in mind, here's a word I heard from a friend-of-a-friend in
the name of one of the R. Moshe's -- I don't know which.

R. Moshe was known for giving out te'udos ishur (supporting
documentation) to any poor looking person that would ask him for
one. Once a talmid (student) asked him if this practice was proper,
since by casually handing out these te'udos they lose meaning --
people will know that they don't guarantee anything.

R. Moshe answered by pointing out the 13 midos (Divine "Attributes" of
mercy). The order includes "virav chesed vi'emes -- great in kindness
and truth". Chesed comes before emes, kindness comes before truth. You
shouldn't be so busy seeking out the truth that it gets in the way of
your performing kindness.

Micha Berger                     Help free Ron Arad, held by Syria 3021 days!
<berger@...>  212 224-4937             (16-Oct-86 - 24-Jan-95)
<aishdas@...>  201 916-0287
<a href=http://www.iia.org/~aishdas>AishDas Society's Home Page</a>


From: <warren@...> (Warren Burstein)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 13:12:39 GMT
Subject: Re: Eruv scenarios

Aliza Esther Berger writes of the Miami Beach Eruv, with a string on
the inland side of the boardwalk.  Gilad J. Gevaryahu suggests that
the railing on the other side of the boardwalk includes the boardwalk
in the eruv.

But I wonder, if the railing constitutes a valid boundary, why is
there a string on the other side of the boardwalk?

 |warren@         bein hashmashot, in which state are the survivors
/ nysernet.org    buried?


From: Shalom Carmy <carmy@...>
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 00:24:20 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Hazon Ish on Moshe Rabbenu's Torah

1. Rabbi Zvi Yehuda wrote that, according to Hazon Ish, we would not 
today accept the Sefer Torah written by Moshe (TRADITION, circa 1979).

2. This position was attacked by Prof. Leiman a year or two later. There 
was subsequent correspondence between Prof Leiman and Prof Dov Frimer.

3. The entire issue of Hazon Ish's views on textual matters was treated 
again in a long article by Rabbi Moshe Bleich in TRADITION circa 1991-2.


From: <GERVER@...> (Mike Gerver)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 1:50:23 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Hebrew and Canaanite

Stan Tenen asks (v17n72) whether the Canaanites "copied Hebrew." I think
Canaanite and Hebrew were closely related languages, mutually
intelligible, so that they undoubtedly did influence each other. But the
two languages did have distinguishing linguistic characteristics, and
were not just defined by who was speaking them.

Stan also asks why Hebrew has such a small vocabulary. That's because
the Hebrew we have today includes only words which happened to be found
in a very small sample of literature, the Tanach [Bible]. There are
plenty of words used only once in the Tanach, and by Poisson statistics
there must be many other Hebrew words that were not used at all, and
hence have been lost. Semitic languages like Arabic, spoken
continuously, have larger vocabularies. Hebrew, like any language, did
borrow words from other languages during First Temple times,
e.g. "kovah" from Philistine, but not because it had an unusually small

Some Hebrew literature now lost probably survived in Mishnaic times,
with words that never happened to be used in Tanach, and a few of these
words may have made it into the Talmud and been rescued from
oblivion. An example that comes to mind is "chazan." This had nothing to
do with singing originally. The gemara (sorry, I don't have the
reference handy) says that children are allowed to read on Shabbat if
the chazan is present, since he will make sure that they don't adjust
their lamps. This meaning of guarding or overseeing is found in the
analogous Arabic word, which gives rise to the Arabic "machzan," a
storage depot, whence the English word "magazine," originally a storage
place for weapons, and only later a collection of articles.

Mike Gerver, <gerver@...>


From: Ezra L Tepper <RRTEPPER@...>
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 95 07:45:00 +0200
Subject: Insurance payment for brit milah

Mohel David Solnick has stopped signing insurance forms for the
families who want reimbusement for his services. He has moral problems

>In essence, when we do a mitzvah and claim, for monetary reward, that
>it is something else we are being dishonest (we may even be stealing --
>(in a moral or halachik sense).

But Mohel Solnick, aren't the preparation before the milah, the _metzitza_
(sucking out residual blood) following the milah, and the spraying of
medicinal powder on the wound and binding it up all medical procedures?
In fact, aren't these the acts for which you accept your payment, as it
would be strictly forbidden to accept payment for the mitzvah act

For this reason, it appears to this reader that there should be no
moral problem in getting recompence for these clearly medical procedures.

Ezra L. Tepper <weizmann.weizmann.ac.il>


From: <bobby@...> (Bobby Fogel)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 16:21:44 +0000
Subject: Japanese-Jewish Relations

>While we're discussing the jewish community in Kobe let's not forget the
>vital role of the japanese and Kobe in particular in WWII. You will
>recall that many jews escaped from Nazi Europe via Shanghai. This was
>due to the intervention of a japanese counsel at a time when Japan was
>allied with Nazi Germany in the Axis. Most of the Mir Yeshiva was saved
>via movement to Kobe where they were protected from the germans and
>ultimately to Shanghai for the duration of the war.

I believe that this approach, taken by a recent MJ.er, in relation to
how we as Jews should view the Japanese, leaves out very important fact.
The outcome of the Japanese alignment with Nazi Germany and their attack
on America caused the US and their allies to split their effort over two
fronts sperated by thousands of miles.  If the Japanese had not done so,
I think it reasonable to suggest that WWII would have ended much earlier
with the result of saving hundreds of thousands, if not millions of
Jewish lives.  While I am not suggesting that the Japanese entered the
war for enything other than their own self interest, as Jews we cannot
forget that their actions, whatever the motivation, resulted in the
additional loss of countless Jewish lives.


From: ERWIN_KATZ_at_~<7BK-ILN-CHICAGO@...> (Erwin Katz)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 95 12:49:31 CST
Subject: Kobe

          I made a mistake in my prior posting. The author of "The
          Fugu Plan" is Tokayer, not Bruckenstein.


From: Michael Lipkin <michael_lipkin@...>
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 95 11:13:40 EST
Subject: Kohen marrying a divorcee

>From: Gedaliah Friedenberg <gedaliah@...>   
>He told me that a non-frum Kohen who marries a divorcee (or any woman 
>forbidden to him), and they become frum (ba'alei teshuva), there is 
>no avenue for them to continue their marriage.

You have to watch out for those absolutes!  I know of a similar type of
case in which Rav Moshe paskened such that the man is no longer a Kohen.



From: <jeremy@...> (Jeremy Nussbaum)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 95 9:41:54 EST
Subject: Kosher rennet

>From: <rachelr@...> (Rachel Rosencrantz)
> I can't answer the quesiton about where kosher rennet comes from (if it
> isn't vegetable based) but the idea that Rennet is so far chemically
> from the actual stomach of a calf that it isn't meat is, I believe, from
> the Conservative halacha.  Under the book on Conservative Kosher rennet
> in cheese is not considered an issue (I think the argument is a
> combination of bitul and that rennet is so chemically removed from
> meat).  (This is not to say that all Conservative Jews hold by this.)

The controversy about cheese is so ancient, that the official mishna
preserves a crytic exchange regarding why the cheese of non-jews
is not regarded as kosher.  If it hasn't been discussed here
(is such a thing possible? :-) ) then it would be useful to for someone
to post the basic issues involved.  In brief, rennet is never bateil,
nullified, since it plays a "tangible" role in converting the milk to
cheese.  On the other hand, it is not generally considered meat either.

Jeremy Nussbaum (<jeremy@...>)


From: Gary Fischer <gfis@...>
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 95 09:59:30 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Premeditated "Desire"

Regarding the story about the yeshiva student, non-marital relations, the
mikva, and  pre-meditated desire:

It seems to be that it would be wrong to say that using the mikva is what
made the non-marital relations worse.  Rather, it was the PRE-MEDITATED
nature of the act that made is worse, relative to the same act done in
"the heat of the moment" so to speak.  Using the Mikva is merely evidence
that the act was pre-meditated.  One might think that it is particularly
rebellious to make preparations to do an aveira (i.e. by going to the
mikva to avoid another aveira), but one can make preparations that have
nothing to do with the mikva (i.e. plan to meet at a certain time and place.)

One might be able to argue that, IF YOU ARE GOING TO DO HAVE NON-MARITAL
to use the mikva.  However, people planning this should realize that
planning to do a sin is a very serious act.

I would suggest the following heirarchy from least bad to most bad:

1.  Non-marital relations spontaneously.
2.  Planned relations using the mikva.
3.  Planned relations without the mikva.

Regarding why the yeshiva student was expelled, of course it is impossible
to know for sure, but it seems like, if he had been acting spontaneously,
the sin might be forgivable, but since he was clearly engaged in making
preparations to sin, he did not belong in that environment where he might
influence others.


From: Yechezkel Schatz <lpschatz@...>
Date: 23 Jan 1995 08:07:55 +0200
Subject: Pronunciation of Moshzar

In mj vol. 18 #6 Walter Poor asks about the pronounciation of the word
 Yes, it is a kamatz katan, and therefore pronounced mosh-zar.  The verb
is a conjugation of Binyan Hof`al = Hoof`al.  There are two alternative
ways to l'naked (choice of vowels) for the first syllable, kamatz katan
and kubutz.  That is why in the dictionary you found the word listed as


From: Israel Medad - Knesset <imedad@...>
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 17:39:44 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Woman's Weapons

In a recent article by Meir Bar-Ilan in Jerusalem Studies in Jewish
Folklore (in Hebrew), the Talmudic aphorism *Isha - Klei Zeina Aleha* (A
woman - her weapons are upon her) is discussed. See Yevamot 115A and
Avoda Zara 25B for sources.

He claims that the comparison with an Eretz_Yisrael Arab folksaying
provides the full text which runs: "A woman's weapons - in time of
trouble, her tears; in times of argument - her screaming (or shouts); in
times of failure - her silence; in times of disagreement - her smile."

Risking feminist critique, I do think that the folk saying holds fairly

Yisrael Medad


From: Cathleen London <CGREENBE@...>
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 10:01:12 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Women and observance

In 18:5 Jeremy Nussbaum and Richard Friedman asked what if any niddah laws 
women in the Conservative movement follow.  I do not claim to speak for all 
women - I am Baalei Teshuva, and currently would categorize myself as 
Conservadox.  Anyway, last year, before getting married I did much 
exploration into this issue.  Most of the women I encountered in the 
Conservative movement (as well as the rabbis - both male and female) hold 
by an interpretation of Rabbi Joel Roth (which is unfortunately not written
).  They follow one week of abstinence from the beginning of menses (
without the additional 7 clean days) and then go to mikveh.  The additional 
fences (separate beds...) are usually not held.

I would also like to briefly address Jonathon Katz's comment about non 
observant women and aliyot.  I am bat Kohen.  I found this out early on in 
my exploration of yiddishkeit.  When I was first called to the torah, I was 
not observant, and it still held a great deal of meaning for me.  One of 
the biggest obstacles for me with orthodoxy is being totally separated - of 
not even being allowed to touch the torah - I find myself alternating 
services one week to the next - yes, women's minyanim are a possibility but 
not where I currently live (New Haven) - when I move (west) that may be the 
answer.  ANyway, the power of the torah DEFINITELY helped inspire me, and 
now I am shomera shabbat, keep kosher, light candles mostly cover my hair (
not currently when I see patients)...so, don't rule it out so quickly!  THe 
50-50 split being sought may bring that many more people into being torah 

-Chaya London


End of Volume 18 Issue 11