Volume 18 Number 51
                       Produced: Sun Feb 19 11:03:15 1995

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

2 Adars
         [Lon Eisenberg]
Airplane Eating
         [Yisrael Medad]
Amah/Har Habayit
         [Yisrael Medad]
Astrological sign for second Adar
         [Jeff Mandin]
Birkat HaGommel.
         [Immanuel O'Levy]
Dairy Products in Hungary
         [Lon Eisenberg]
Fish and Milk
         [Lon Eisenberg]
Is shukling natural?
         [Ben Rothke]
Names for Purim Shpiel
         [Josh Backon]
Nefesh Hachaim
         [Josh Backon]
Shabbat at Einstein
         [Seth Ness]
SHoVeViM TaT - Slichot (3)
         [Joe Halberstadt, Michael Engel, Avi Wollman]
Women Dancing
         [Harry Weiss]


From: Lon Eisenberg <eisenbrg@...>
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 09:44:57 +0000
Subject: Re: 2 Adars

Eli Turkel reminded me of the case of the younger son's bar mizvah being
celebrated before his older brother's:

Twins are born, one just before sundown the 30th of AdarI, the other
just after nightfall the first of AdarII.  The year of their bar mizvah
comes out in a regular (non-leap) year.  The second twin has his bar
mizvah on Rosh Hodesh (fisrt of) Adar.  The first twin waits a whole
month till Rosh Hodsh Nissan (there is no 30th in Adar).

Lon Eisenberg   Motorola Israel, Ltd.  Phone:+972 3 5658438 Fax:+972 3 5658205


From: MEDAD%<ILNCRD@...> (Yisrael Medad)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 95 10:25 IST
Subject: Airplane Eating

On Motzei Shabat, Feb. 4, I flew from Israel to U.S. and across the
aisle sat Rabbi Moshe Tendler and his Rebbitzen.

They ate their meals with plastic gloves on.  I asked why and was
informed that this way he avoided any Halachic problem with the washing
and making a Bracha at the toilet area.

He informed me also that he had recently joined the List, so I presume
he could clarify any questions the nettors have regarding his custom.

Yisrael Medad


From: MEDAD%<ILNCRD@...> (Yisrael Medad)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 95 10:21 IST
Subject: Amah/Har Habayit

The measurements of the current Temple Mount area, to the extent that
there is any consensus on where the Courtyards (Azarot) were, not to
mention the location of the Mizbe'ach (Altar), indicate an Amah of 48

Yisrael Medad


From: Jeff Mandin <jeff@...>
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 12:09:57 -0500
Subject: Astrological sign for second Adar

In in Jewish zodiac, the mazalot(zodiac signs) follow the calendar month;
ie. the mazal for Adar is Dagim(Pisces).  

This would indicate that years with two Adars have two months of Pisces.
Is it then the case that someone's Jewish sign would often be different
that his sign in the non-Jewish system?  

This is all keeping in mind, of course, that astrology is permitted in 
halacha only for character analysis and not for prognostication(and 
the Rambam prohibits it altogether).

- Jeff


From: <imo@...> (Immanuel O'Levy)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 11:05:31 GMT
Subject: Birkat HaGommel.

In MJ v18n44, Lon Eisenberg said:
>>The Tzitz Eliezer [20], however, rules that hagomel is required only after a
>>lengthy flight, such as one longer than 2 hours, irrespective of whether the
>>journey is over the sea or not.  Shorter flights do not require hagomel
>>since the chance of danger is small.
>What is special about 2 hr.?

I have heard on many occasions that the most dangerous times of any
flight are the take-off and landing.  All flights, regardless of length,
involve these procedures - witness the number of "short" pleasure
flights that crash on landing.  Shouldn't one then say Birkat HaGommel
after any flight?  Being in the air for longer probably does increase
risk though, as there's more time in which something could, chas
ve'shalom, happen.

Something else that I've always wondered about Birkat HaGommel is the
bit about going through a desert.  Would this mean that if one goes on a
day trip to somewhere like Ein Gedi one would have to say Birkat
HaGommel upon one's return, having crossed the Judean Desert?

 Immanuel M. O'Levy,                         JANET: <imo@...>
 Dept. of Medical Physics,                  BITNET: <imo@...>
 University College London,               INTERNET: <imo@...>
 11-20 Capper St, LONDON WC1E 6JA, Great Britain.   Tel: +44 71-380-9700


From: Lon Eisenberg <eisenbrg@...>
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 09:57:39 +0000
Subject: Re: Dairy Products in Hungary

Sam Gamoran asked about the pemissibility of using non-halav Israel
butter and cream cheese in Hungary.

I'm not sure about the cream cheese (what't in it besides cream?), but
as far as I know, the majority holds that butter is permitted even made
from regular milk (since non-cows' milk added would supposedly prevent
the cream from being whipped into butter), except the Hungarians!

Lon Eisenberg   Motorola Israel, Ltd.  Phone:+972 3 5658438 Fax:+972 3 5658205


From: Lon Eisenberg <eisenbrg@...>
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 09:50:40 +0000
Subject: Re: Fish and Milk

Rabbi Adlerstein mentioned:
"The Sefardic contingent was eager to find out, though, whether the Mechaber's
similar ban on mixing milk and fish had any equivalent biological defense."

I thought that only Habad accepted that statement literally and that the
majority claims that the Mehaber meant to say "meat" instaed of "milk".

Lon Eisenberg   Motorola Israel, Ltd.  Phone:+972 3 5658438 Fax:+972 3 5658205


From: Ben Rothke <yafo!<ber@...>
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 13:59:49 PST
Subject: Is shukling natural?

The first thing that strikes most people who have never been in an
Orthodox shul before is the shukling (body movements) of the daveners.
My question is: Is shukling a natural response to davening or do we do
it just becuase everyone is doing it?  Are we simply mimiking the body
language of our fellow daveners?

It is quoted that the reason people shukel is to fulfil the verse: "Kol
Atzmosi Tomarnu HaShem", Rough trans: All my bones shall praise you

Does shukling enhance the davening?  Should one attempt to do it or is
it a distraction?  We must act during davening like we are before a
King.  If one would shukle before a king, he would think the person is


From: <BACKON@...> (Josh Backon)
Date: Sun,  19 Feb 95 13:03 +0200
Subject: Re: Names for Purim Shpiel

Just don't forget: Morris Ayin, Dina Demalchutah, Ringo SHTARR, Beth Din,
Moe Raid, Moe Har, Mick Vah, Mae Zid, Kev Vanna, Ken Assot, Ken Yahn,
Ed Im, Bo Geret, Bea Tul, Bea Kurim, Ben Nonit, Bill Puhl, Shem Mittah,
Sy Tomah. Meg Oh, Hec Desh, Zack Iyah, and Seth Tam :-)



From: <BACKON@...> (Josh Backon)
Date: Sun,  19 Feb 95 10:00 +0200
Subject: Re: Nefesh Hachaim

Reb Meir Soloveitchik recently queried on the availability of studies
on Reb Chaim Volozhin's NEFESH HACHAIM.

Dov Eliach, "Reb Chaim of Volozhin: The life and ideals of the visionary
*Father of yeshivos*". Mesorah Publications, Brooklyn NY, 1993. (Artscroll
History Series).

There's another title (in French): "L'ame de la vie: NEFESH HACHAIM. Rabbi
Hayyim of Volozhin: Presentation, Traduction et commentaire par Benjamin
Gross. Verdier Publ., Lagrasse, 1986.

I got this information from the RAMBI database: telnet aleph.huji.ac.il
login as ALEPH. Then type LB/JNL.RBI  (this excellent database at Hebrew
University indexes literally thousands of articles on Judaica and Israel
from the many thousands of journals that are received by the Hebrew
University library).



From: Seth Ness <ness@...>
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 12:16:06 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Shabbat at Einstein

akiva miller wrote...
>Part of the problem is defining "basic Jewish principles". I highly
>doubt that Shabbos and Yom Tov are observed at the hospital of YU's
>Albert Einstein College of Medicine to the extent that they are observed
>at Shaarei Tzedek or Laniado hospitals in Israel, or even to any extent
>at all beyond what other American hospitals do.

Shabbat is not observed at einsteins hospitals. However, einstein and YU
do not own any of these hospitals. Weiler hospital of einstein is owned by
montefiore medical center and theres no reason for them to be concerned
about shabbat.

Seth L. Ness                         Ness Gadol Hayah Sham


From: <fx_joe@...> (Joe Halberstadt)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 14:03:30 GMT
Subject: SHoVeViM TaT - Slichot

>From: <gamoran@...> (Sam Gamoran)

>They have a minhag (custom) here of saying slichot every Monday and
>Thursday from parshat Shmot through Tetzaveh.  I was here on the last
>Thursday of this period.  The slichot are said in the repetition of the
>Amidah in the beracha "slach lanu" (blessing for forgiveness from sin).
>The slichot poems that were said were listed in my siddur as being those
>for the second Monday of BeHaB (Monday-Thursday-Monday after
>Pesach/Sukkot).  This was a Thursday.  They said a full slichot
>including shma koleinu and then continued the regular prayers.  After
>the amidah they started V'ho Rachum and the Thursday Tachunun (Nusach
>Ashkenaz) Is anyone out there familiar with this minhag?


In our Shul (Golders Green Beth Hamedrash - Munk's) we say Selichos every
Thursday, during a leap year, from Shemos to Tetzave (ShOVVYMT"T). These
selichos are taken from the general 'pool' of Slichos. However, the last
Thursday we say the Pizmon of the 13 Middos and its appropriate Selicha, which
happens to be the same as the second Monday of BH"B.

We actually say the Selichos after the repetition of the AMidah, probably
because few people, if any, actually fast.

I have heard that the reason for the Minhag is so that we should not go for
more than 12 months from Yomim Noraim to Yomim Noraim without saying Selichos.

Yossi Halberstadt

(Sorry about the high level of Hebrew in the post)

Joe Halberstadt                                 <HALBERSTADTJ@...>
1 + 1 = 3 for large values of 1

From: <Mike11210@...> (Michael Engel)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 01:12:17 -0500
Subject: SHoVeViM TaT - Slichot

In reply to Mr. Sam Gamoran's observation of the recital of slichos: This
time period is known among Hungarian chassidim as SHoVeViM TaT, the capital
letters of the aforementioned acronym referring to the initial letters of the
Parshos from SHmos to Tetzave. It is a special time for doing teshuva and
introspection. I assume Tamei Haminhagim has more information on this.

Michael Engel

From: <avi@...> (Avi Wollman)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 95 10:00:31 EET
Subject: SHoVeViM TaT - Slichot

Their is a custom to say slichos and fast during the weeks of parsheot
Shmot Vara Bo Bishalach Yitro Mispatim and on leap years Truma
Tizava. The source is from the students of the ARI Hakadosh and it helps
a person repenting from sexually inclined sinnes.  Nowadays in Israel
i've only seen kabalic yeshivot take any part of this tradition. For
more info look in the BenIshChai or ask me.

Avi Wollman


From: <harry.weiss@...> (Harry Weiss)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 13:25:07 -0800
Subject: Women Dancing

Zvi Weiss comments that a man's motivation in dancing with a Torah does
not need to be questioned because he commanded to learn Torah, but we
must question women's motivation since they are not commanded to learn.

Which one of the mitzvot in the Torah requires one to dance with the
Torah?  It is a celebration of the learning and the love of Torah.
Women voluntarily have except the learning Torah.  They are required to
learn sufficient Torah to observe the Torah.  Should we require a
motives test before we allow a girl to go to a day school.  Women have
as much right as men to celebrate their Love of Hashem and his Torah.

In this posting Zvi answered his own question to Leah Gordon in a
previous posting asking for a case where keeping a woman strictly in a
background role is solely a result of chauvinism.



End of Volume 18 Issue 51