Volume 18 Number 52
                       Produced: Tue Feb 21  0:29:27 1995

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Agudath Israel says ban computers
         [Mark Schreiber]
Banter and Lashon HaRah
         [Andy Goldfinger]
HaGaon HaRav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach zt"l
         [Yosef Bechhofer]
Jewish Court after Failing in the Secular Court
         [Jay F Shachter]
Misunderstanding and Titles
         [Leah S. Gordon]
Modern orthodox kollel in cleveland/Rabbi Tabouri (of Gush)
         [Jeremy Nussbaum]
Roshei Yeshiva and AECOM
         [Chaya Gurwitz]
Shabbat at Einstein - MJ18#51
         [Yehudah Edelstein]
Shamash Advisory Board
         [Avrum Goodblat]
         [Avi Rabinowitz]
         [Israel Medad - Knesset]
The individual???
         [Zvi Weiss]
The Surrogate Mother is the Halakhic Mother
         [Bob Werman]
Woman as Moreh Ho'ra'ah
         [Eliyahu Teitz]
Women at the Wall
         [Mordechai Horowitz]


From: <uscbr9vr@...> (Mark Schreiber)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 12:54:42 EST
Subject: Agudath Israel says ban computers

Did anybody else read the shocking article in the Jewish Observer.  The
Agudath Israel magazine of Adar 5755 (2/95) says that to stop the
dangerous and indecent internet from perverting the Jewish home we
should ban computers.

I think people who don't understand the internet will get the wrong
impression.  Its irresponsible on their part.


From: Andy Goldfinger <andy_goldfinger@...>
Date: 20 Feb 1995 09:38:25 +0200
Subject: Banter and Lashon HaRah

Making deragotory remarks about another person constitutes lashon horah
or motzei shem rah even if done in jest.

In my work place (and I assume in others) there is a light hearted and
good natured banter that takes place during the day, in which people
make sarcastic or "insulting" comments to one another that are accepted
in "good fun."  For example, the following conversation may take place
in a room filled with computer terminals (names changed, of course):

Bob: (looking at some software on the terminal) Hey, who wrote this code?

Fred: Hmm, must have been Terry.  No one else could write spaghetti code
like that.  You have to be pretty incompetant to generate that stuff.

Terry: (who is in the room) You guys _wish_ you could write code of that
quality.  You just don't recognize true perfection when you see it.

   I asked the Rabbi of my Shul (Rabbi Menachem Goldberger) about
conversation such as this, and he said that so long as it is done for
fun and not taken seriously, it does not constitute lashon harah.  He
also said that one must be careful, since a person could be feel hurt by
some of the comments and not show it.  In other words: there is room for
light heartedness and jest, but one must be very careful to distinguish
that which is taken seriously from that which is not.  This is a
difficult task.

    I would like to open this up as a subject of discussion.  Have other
readers run into this question?  Have they been given guidance from
Halachic sources?


From: <sbechhof@...> (Yosef Bechhofer)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 22:28:51 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: HaGaon HaRav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach zt"l

 From Eretz Yisroel today we received the sad news that the great and
beloved Posek, one of the greatest Gedolei Yisroel and Ba'alei Hoara'ah
in history, HaGaon HaRav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach zt"l passed away this
afternoon, 19 Adar I. It is not for me to describe his awesome stature
and the terrible loss that this is to the entire House of Israel. May he
be a Maylitz Yosher for us during these troubled times, u'macha Hashem
dim'a me'al kol panim.

I would appreciate any news from Israel on the levaya, hespedim, etc.

V'nizkeh li'r'os be'nechemas Tzion ve'Yerushalayim,
Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer

[This information was also submitted by others, I'm only posting one
version. Mod.]


From: <jay@...> (Jay F Shachter)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 19:01:06 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Jewish Court after Failing in the Secular Court

I wish to invite a scholarly discussion on the topic of how one should
treat a Jew who brings a case to the Jewish court after failing to
obtain his desired relief in the Gentile court.

I assume that we are all agreed on the basic premise: a Jew may not, on
pain of "herem" (total exclusion from the Jewish community), initiate a
cause of action against another Jew in a Gentile court, except,
possibly, to obtain whatever relief has already been granted "ex parte"
in a properly convened Jewish court.  If there is any disagreement on
this basic premise, then of course I welcome hearing it.

My question is a derivative one.  How do we act in the situation wherein
a Jew enlists the Gentile court against another Jew, fails to obtain the
desired result, and then comes to the Jewish court as a second resort?
Do we accept the case, if it has merit, or do we reject it out of hand?
The Tur seems to leave the question unresolved; the Beit Yosef on the
Tur seems to favor rejection, but the Beit Yosef is not entirely clear
to me.

Please discuss the case in all its complexity.  Note, in particular,
that in the general case the Gentile court will not have failed entirely
to act; on the contrary, in the general case the Gentile court has
acted, and it has satisfied the complaining party in some respects but
not in others.

Citations, of course, are more than merely welcome; in a topic like
this, they are essential.

			Jay F. ("Yaakov") Shachter
			6424 N Whipple St
			Chicago IL  60645-4111
	(1-312)7613784			<jay@...>


From: Leah S. Gordon <lsgordon@...>
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 14:07:43 -0800
Subject: Misunderstanding and Titles

Rabbi Eliyahu Teitz claims that I purposefully used "Mr." in his name
to show him disrespect.  This could not be farther from the truth.  He
uses as proof some memory of my having called him "Eliyahu Teitz" with
no title whatsoever.  I never did any such thing; I never refer to anyone
at all in the third person on this list without a title before his or her
name.  In any event, it was an honest error; I generally use Mr./Ms. in any
reply.  I meant no special meaning by my general practice, and I apologize
for offending anyone.

Leah S. Gordon


From: <jeremy@...> (Jeremy Nussbaum)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 95 0:48:35 EST
Subject: Modern orthodox kollel in cleveland/Rabbi Tabouri (of Gush)

My roomate R. Klapper is interested in any info on the rumor he heard of
a modern orthodox kolel in Cleveland, with Rabbi Tabouri leading it this
year.  Please send email to me or to him at <RryehDKl@...> (that's a
capital r).

Thanks in advance,

Jeremy Nussbaum (<jeremy@...>)


From: <gurwitz@...> (Chaya Gurwitz)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 95 23:43:23 EST
Subject: Roshei Yeshiva and AECOM

In MJ 18:48, Akiva Miller questions
> ... Perhaps the same Roshei Yeshiva
>(if any) who approved policy for Einstein on Shabbos also agreed that
>these student groups could be allowed to remain?

I don't believe that any of the Roshei Yeshiva at YU are consulted,
much less pass approval, on policy matters for either Einstein or Cardozo.

-Chaya Gurwitz


From: <yehudah@...> (Yehudah Edelstein)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 23:52:39 +0200
Subject: Shabbat at Einstein - MJ18#51

If I'm not mistaken the hospital at MMC (Montifiore) closed down it's
Kosher kitchen, years ago, inorder to cut down expenses. A patient
though can order kosher meals, brought from the outside (like plane
meals). The last I've been to MMC was in 1990.

Yehudah Edelstein  "<yehudah@...>"


From: <archives@...> (Avrum Goodblat)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 95 05:29:06 EST
Subject: Shamash Advisory Board

The Shamash Project is holding its first Advisory Board meeting on
February 22nd. The list of organizations who are participating is
available via the gopher under the About Shamash section.

We welcome any comments about what Shamash's services should be over the
next year. We will be seeking a budget of approximately $250,000 to
further develop our Web, databases, training seminars, internship
program, general host services, and our site connectivity consulting

These are all geared toward assisting Jewish communities in reaching
their constituencies (both affiliated and unaffiliated) with more
responsive and higher quality education, social service, social action,
and religious and cultural programs.

Your comments and suggestions are welcome.

Avrum Goodblatt
Director, Nysernet:Shamash


From: Avi Rabinowitz <avirab@...>
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 19:49:58 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Re: Shukeling

I have also heard another reason that shuckeling developed: prior to
printing when prayyer books were rare, with more congregants than books,
a few had to share each book, with one looking for a second or two then
moving a bit back to allow a second to look, a third, and then back
	My own opinion is that it may have something to do with
maintaining balance. The central part of the service - the amidah - is
traditionally recited while standing, with the feet together (usually
actually touching) , and often with the eyes closed for concentration
and to remove distractions rather than open to read from the prayer
book: in this position it is difficult to maintain balance/orientation,
and motion to and fro solves the problem (like riding a bicycle rather
than sitting on it, and like the pole in a high-wire balancing act ?).
 	In addition, shukkeling may induce something like jogger's high
and the similar high of repetitive dancing, as in a hasidic tanse, and
might have been a meditative technique.


From: Israel Medad - Knesset <imedad>
Subject: Shukling

I recall reading a study that was done, I think, at Jerusalem's Shaare
Zedek Hospital, that there was a preponderance of eye focusing problems
among religious males which was traced, in part, to the habit of
shukling when studying during the many hours in the Cheder or Bet
Medrash.  The article appeared in the early 70s.

Yisrael Medad


From: Zvi Weiss <weissz@...>
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 15:15:40 -0500
Subject: The individual???

Alan Zaitchik asserts that we should be directly concerned for the
aspirations of the individual in this matter of "observance".  Without
minimizing the individual's rights, we see that the Torah ALSO takes
concern in its treatment of "groups".  In those cases, the aspirations
of the individual may have to be re-directed, changed, or given up.  A
person falls in love with a WONDERFUL woman.  She is "just right" --
except that she happens to be a divorcee (gerusha) and he -- a Kohen.
Unless, a way is found to rule that he is NOT a Kohen (which has
happened) or that she is not a divorcee, this couple will not be allowed
to marry regardless of the individual aspirations involved.  Ultimately,
I understand that Yahadut is not about groups ("statist") nor about
individuals... It is about the best way to serve G-d as part of Klal



From: Bob Werman <rwerman@...>
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 10:09:47 -0500
Subject: The Surrogate Mother is the Halakhic Mother

The basis for the counter-intuitive ruling that the pundaka'it
(surrogate mother) is the true mother even when the egg implanted is
from another woman is based on the gemara (Sanhedrin 95?) that the child
of a pregnant woman who converts is Jewish, despite the act of her
conversion abolishing all pre-conversion relationships.  Halakhah, once
again, works not on genetic principles, but has its own motivating

__Bob Werman


From: <EDTeitz@...> (Eliyahu Teitz)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 12:59:25 -0500
Subject: Woman as Moreh Ho'ra'ah

Zvi Weiss writes concerning titles that a woman is disqualified from
being permitted to be moreh ho'ra'ah.  To give ho'ra'ah is different
from being a dayan, and I wanted to know if there was a source
prohibiting a woman from paskening a question.

eliyahu teitz

[I know that Rabbi Berman discussed this when he was at my shul a few
weeks ago. There are sources, but I don't remember which, that do
disqualify women from "ho'ra'ah", but then you need to determine what
exactly is "ho'ra'ah". Mod.]


From: Mordechai Horowitz <BR00318@...>
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 95 12:40:21 ECT
Subject: Re: Women at the Wall

I just want to quickly respond to the issue of women at the wall.
According to Rav Riskin, it was 100% halachically prohibited for any
women to participate in that organization for the simple reason that the
Rabbi who was in charge of the wall prohibited it.

Very basic point, there are legitamate disputes within the halachic
world regarding the validity of womens prayer groups.  The Rabbi of any
community is the sole legitimate authority for determining if his
community will allow the innovation.  Just as one is halachically
prohibited from establishing a womens prayer group in any shul w/o the
permission of the Rabbi, so one is prohibited from establishing a womens
prayer group at the Kotel w/o the permission of the Rabbi there.


End of Volume 18 Issue 52