Volume 18 Number 75
                       Produced: Sun Mar  5  6:51:41 1995

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Escalators and Theft Detectors on Shabbat
         [Avi Rabinowitz]
Kashrut horror stories
         [Moshe Goldberg]
Kohen, marriage, and childhood geyores
         [Gedaliah Friedenberg]
Neqevah tisovev gever
         [Ephraim Dardashti]
Parakeet Food for Pesach?
         [Arthur Roth]
Purim -- sending portions [shelah manoth]
         ["Lon Eisenberg"]
Shmitta in Chul (outside of Israel) - Lon Eisenberg - MJ v18 #59
         [Yehudah Edelstein]
YU & Gays
         [Eliyahu Teitz]
YU and Lawsuits
         [Alan Mizrahi]
YU's identity crises
         [Jeff Stier]


From: Avi Rabinowitz <avirab@...>
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 08:03:21 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Escalators and Theft Detectors on Shabbat

	I love reading - particularly on Shabbat - and perhaps the best
spot in Manhattan for reading/browsing is Barnes and Nobles with its
current and very extensive selection and with numerous couches, chairs and
tables for readers, who fill the store like a library from a.m. to closing
at 11pm and midnight on weekends. This has sparked the following
	Other than issues of what reading material is permitted in
general, what can be read on Shabbat etc, or whether one is allowed to be
in chutz la'aretz at all.....
	Is there a problem with entering on Shabbat through theft
detectors in libraries or stores - is there anything activated just by the
	Are continuously operating escalators ok on Shabbat (Access to the
main section of this Barnes and Noble store is via an escalator), is there
mar'as ayin involves? 
	Is there mar'as ayin in going to a library on Shabbat? Into a book
store which is particularly reader-friendly such as Barnes and Nobles on
the West Side of Manhattan? A regular book store? 


From: Moshe Goldberg <mgold@...>
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 08:14:34 +0200 (EET)
Subject: Kashrut horror stories

> From: <janiceg@...> (Janice Gelb)
> On the other hand, I worked for a technical writing firm in Holon and
> was assured during the interview that the lunchroom was kosher.
>  . . . When I inquired . . . with the boss and owner of the
> company, I was told that "separating dishes for meat and dairy is only
> for 'super-kasher'" so he hadn't lied when they told me the lunchroom
> was kosher!

I must be missing something here. This is a discussion of kashrut
certification by the Rabbanut of Israel. Did this lunchroom have
Rabbanut approval? Are you saying that a mashgiach [supervisor] gave
approval of mixing dishes? If so, there are ways of complaining about
the lax procedures.

If this is meant to imply a general fault with kashrut certification, I
fail to see the point. The "owner of the company" is not a
representative of the supervision authorities.

    Moshe Goldberg -- <mgold@...>


From: Gedaliah Friedenberg <gedaliah@...>
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 01:28:39 -0500
Subject: Kohen, marriage, and childhood geyores
Newsgroups: israel.mail-jewish

We know that a Kohen cannot marry is geyores (convert).  The Shulchan
Aruch says that it is because we assume that all female converts are
considered to be "harlots".  A Kohen cannot marry a harlot.

What about babies converted at infancy?  Many Jewish couples adopt baby
girls and raise them as Bnos Torah.  Do we have reason to believe that
they are "harlots" as well?  If not, then what is the reason that a
Kohen could not marry them?



From: <DARDASHTI@...> (Ephraim Dardashti)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 23:59:05 -0500
Subject: Re: Neqevah tisovev gever

In general Edot HaMizrach do not follow the custom of the bride circling
the groom.  The act of circling conveys the image of a kapparah and the
objects (money) or livestock in any circling act are offered to the
poor.  The idea that one's spouse would be a kapparah is unimaginable.


From: <rotha@...> (Arthur Roth)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 22:00:43 -0600
Subject: Parakeet Food for Pesach?

    I know it's a bit early for this sort of detail, but can any
parakeet owners out there tell me what they feed their birds for Pesach?
Last year, I didn't start to look until too late, couldn't find any
suitable food, and wound up "boarding" my parakeet at the local pet
shop.  This year, I have two of them, and my son would very much like it
if I could find a way to keep them at home this year.  Thanks.


From: "Lon Eisenberg" <eisenbrg@...>
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 14:40:49 +0000
Subject: Purim -- sending portions [shelah manoth]

After briefly studying the laws of sending portions on Purim, it seems
to me that our normal custom, where families send to other families, is
not really correct, and possibly doesn't even fulfill our obligation.
In the Shulhan `Arukh (695:4) it states that each person should send at
least two types of food to his friend.  The Ram"a adds that a man should
send to a man and a woman to a woman.  IMHO, if we wish to continue our
custom of families sending to eachother, then each member should at
least send one "plate" to another individual to fulfill the letter of
the law (as well as its spirit).

A question about shelah manoth that came to mind is can I fulfill my
obligation by sending to someone for whom it is not Purim (day, since it
is a daytime obligation)?  This is actually a very practical question,
since a Jerusalemite could conceivably send to his non-Jerusalemite
friend (or vice versa) or people could send to far away places where the
time zones are significantly apart.
 The one thing that would lead me to believe that this does fulfill the
obligation (I haven't found a definite source to support or refute it)
is that it is stated that if one sends portions to his friend who
refuses to accept them, he has still fulfilled his obligation.  This
seems no worse (although admitedly a bit different); I would be sending
portions to my friend when it is Purim (for me), but he would not be
accepting them on Purim (for him).

Lon Eisenberg   Motorola Israel, Ltd.  Phone:+972 3 5658438 Fax:+972 3 5658205


From: <yehudah@...> (Yehudah Edelstein)
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 23:35:12 +0200
Subject: Shmitta in Chul (outside of Israel) - Lon Eisenberg - MJ v18 #59

A non-jew has no obligation to observe Shmitta. In Israel the produce
was bought directly from an Arab. After the purchase the question arises
if there is any Kedusha (holiness) to the produce grown in Israel
(certain parts).  Outside of Israel, perhaps the best is to buy from a
nonjew Israeli produce, and then not have to rely on loopholes (gift,
paying by Check or credit, paying cash for non sanctified produce
together with sanctified produce). Also we shouldn't encourage Jews to
Export produce from Israel (those not holding by the Heter Mechira -
sale of Israely land to a non Jew during the Shmitta year).  

Yehudah Edelstein "<yehudah@...>" Raanana, Israel


From: <EDTeitz@...> (Eliyahu Teitz)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 02:13:41 -0500
Subject: YU & Gays

Mordechai Horowitz asks concerning suing YU about not allowing women
into s'micha:

RIETS, the theological seminary/yeshiva program at YU is affiliated with
YU, and not a part of the school. Therefore, one would not sue YU to get
relief for women not allowed into the s'micha program.  I also do not
know if suing would help since RIETS is a private institution that gets
no public funding.

Seth Gordon asks about an Asian club & eating in non-kosher establishments:

If the club was made up of Jewish students I would think the rebbeim would
make an issue of the matter.  Howvever, if the club was at one of the
graduate schools where the population is not exclusively Jewish and the club
was geared for non-Jewish oriental students, I could not see grounds for
closing the club if Jews joined the club at a non-kosher establishment.  The
halachik problem of lifney i'ver ( do not put a stumbling block in front of a
blind person ) does not apply since the person going to eat has the
opportunity to go regardless of the club's going ( what is known in halacha
as chad ibra d'ne'hara - one side of the river [ the case refers to a person
giving a cup of wine to a nazir - one who took a vow to refrain from wine (as
well as other things) - if the wine & nazir were on the same side of the
river, then the one offering it to the nazir has not put a stumbling block in
front of the nazir, since the nazir has access to the wine on his own.
 However, if the wine was across the river and the offerer went to get
the wine & then gave in to the nazir there would be a prohibition of
lifney i'ver].

This does not mean that I think it is right to have such a club, but there
would be little formal grounds for an halachik objection.

The issue with the gay clubs is that the actions associated with the
members of the club is prohibitted for all humans, not just Jews, and
that the objection is not based on lifney i'ver, but rather against the
seeming stamp of approval that having such a club at YU gives to these

Eliyahu Teitz


From: Alan Mizrahi <amizrahi@...>
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 23:26:14 EST
Subject: YU and Lawsuits

Mordechai Horowitz writes:

> if a female, or male student, were to sue and win a lawsuit against the 
> discriminatory practice of not allowing women in YC and/or men in Stern
> would you support making the undergraduate divisions coed.

I don't see how the YC/Stern arrangement is any different than Harvard/
Radcliffe, for example.  There are many all female colleges in the US.
It is not illegal to have a single gender school.

Alan Mizrahi


From: Jeff Stier <jstier@...>
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 01:46:49 -0500 (EST)
Subject: YU's identity crises

	On Friday YU's lawyers from Weil Gatshil argued that YU is bound
by the NYC anti-discrimination laws that protect homosexuals because
they do not qualify for the religious exemption. Theyconcluded so
because YU- for years- claims to be non-secterian.  I argue that YU IS
indeed a religious instituion, despite the claims they have been making
till now.  In a case applying the State statute, worded practically the
same way, the highest court in the state called the aplication of the
term- religious institution a broad one.  YU, whose torah umaddah symbol
has religious meaning, who closes their library at the law school on
shabbos, who forces the student groups to buy only kosher food, who has
an annual chanuka fundraising dinner, etc... is indeed a religious
institution -- they argue that it is not- and since they are not willing
to admit they are religious- they wont claim the religious exemption and
say they are forced not to discriminate-
	When put on the spot, sheldon socol (Vp for business affairs?)
would not say the clubs bothered him.  Further, as I was warned he would
be, he was very rude to me.  He said " lot of things bother me- as a
matter of fact, you bother me!"  Now this is no way to speak to someone
who has YU's best interest in mind- we are all on the same side here-
looking for some resolution to the problem.  ..

	My next step is to encourage YU to stop representing itself as a 
religious institution.   YU's lawyer said that YU isn't  religious 
I said- look at our symbol...
he said- Yale has the Urim v'tumim...
I said-
EXACTLY! The Urim V'Tumim at  Yale is a peice of art- a design devoid of 
religious consequences.  but the Torah umaddah of YU is a way of life for 
many of us.  It has religious significance.  But when YU allows gay 
clubs, and does nothing to try to stop - or even condemn-  the club- they are
lowering the YU symbol- to the level of the Yale  symbol- which  has no 
religious meaning.  That is unfortunate.  If they believe they have to 
have the clubs, fine.  Just stop representing yourself as a Jewish 
institution while at the same time you tell the government that you are 
not religious. 

I will answer:
> More questions along the same lines:
> (1) Suppose YU had an Asian Culture Club for students interested in
> learning more about the Far East, and it was widely known that the
> vast majority of members of this club went to a trayf Chinese
> Restaurant together on a regular basis.  Would prominent rabbis and
> other Orthodox leaders demand that YU shut the ACC down, in the same
> way that they are protesting against YU's gay students' organization?

YU /Cardozo does have such clubs.  The Black and Aisian Law Student 
Association (BALSA), and they have events funded by their club budget.
ALL SUCH EVENTS MUST BE KOSHER.  So if they pay for their own meals, and 
since there is nothing wrong with Non-Jews eating trayfe, thats fine.
if  they try to get Jews to join, and eat trayfe- thats another story.
let me remind you-  when the gay  club has a "mixer"- the food they serve 
MUST be Kosher!

> By the way on the secular law, the loans are Federal in origen so I
> can't see how YU could lose them for banning Gay groups when it is legal
> to discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation on the Federal level.

 You are correct. YU's lawyers didn't argue that point.  Sheldon Socol 
did, but when I called him to task, he backed down and his lawyers 
admitted that the federal government would not give us a problem.


End of Volume 18 Issue 75