Volume 19 Number 51
                       Produced: Wed May 10 23:23:54 1995

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

         [Joe Goldstein]
Association of Jewish Libraries (AJL)
         [Mordechai Perlman]
Bentching on meat and dairy together
         [Gedaliah Friedenberg]
Date Line question
         [Dave Curwin]
Entering Churches
         [Susan Hornstein]
         [Jack Stroh]
Have another piece of kugel
         [Shimon Schwartz]
Isaac Breuer
         [Zvi Weiss  ]
Kosher ovens
         [Jay Bailey]
Mishne Baal Peh
         [Mike Paneth]
         [Susan Slusky]
Order of Parshios
         [M. Press]
Pirkei Ovos in Israel
         [Stephen Phillips]
Rav Elimelech Bar Shaul
         [Dave Curwin]
Sleeve Length
         [Talya Naumann]
Who can sign ketubah?
         [Jonathan Golden]


From: Joe Goldstein <vip0280@...>
Date: Wed, 10 May 95 09:05:54 
Subject: Abortion

I saw your note in the internet mail jewish bboard. I do not have any
specific place to look. However, I know many years ago Reb Dovid
Kronglass ZT"L Had to say a Shiur in the Agudau in Boro Park, (This goes
back to the 60's) And he SPOKE about the issur of Goyim doing
abortions. He tied it to Parshas SHEMOS, when PHAROH told the Mid-wives
to kill the children.  Another Rebbi in Ner Yisroel also disccussed the
topic and if I remmeber correctly he said the issur for a GOY was pure
Murder. There is no Heter of Killing the the child because the mother is
in danger.  The Heter of RODEF appplies to yidden only. As abortion
applies to Yidden this rebbi said it was an extension of the issur of
being MOTZEY ZERA LEVATOLO.  Also see what you can find based on the
mishna in OHALOS ("tents") Perek 7 last Mishna. There is alot on
it. (See Reb Akiva Eiger on the that Mishna)

Hope this helps. 


From: Mordechai Perlman <aw004@...>
Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 10:50:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Association of Jewish Libraries (AJL)


I don't know if anybody remembers me.  I used to correspond with 
mail-jewish in the summer and have only now resumed.

Has anybody heard of the AJL, Association of Jewish Libraries.  I, as the 
head of the Otzer Hasefarim in Ner Yisroel Yeshiva of Toronnto have been 
invited to be a member of this organization.  I am interested in finding 
out the purpose of this organization and its activities.

Mordechai Perlman
Toronto, Canada


From: Gedaliah Friedenberg <gedaliah@...>
Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 21:03:30 -0400
Subject: Bentching on meat and dairy together
Newsgroups: israel.mail-jewish

Most people hold that one may eat meat foods 30 minutes (or less) after
eating dairy foods.

Most people hold that one has to bentch (birkat ha-mazon) within 72
minutes of the meal (either a meat or diary meal).

Therefore, it is possible to wash, make hamotzee, drink a glass of milk,
wait 30 minutes, eat a steak and then bentch over all of the food?  The
laws of basar v'chalav are not being broken (as far as I understand),
and the hefsek (intermission) during the meal is not longer than 72

Gedaliah Friedenberg


From: Dave Curwin <6524dcurw@...>
Date: Sun, 07 May 1995 18:58:45 EDT
Subject: Date Line question

<Yisroel1@...> (Seth Rosenblum) wrote:
>Just for the record, I know someone, who knows someone else who is a
>Mashgiach in a tuna factory in Fiji. He is required to keep two days of
>Shabbos. He keeps the first day as normal and the second only D'oraysa.

Rav Menachem Kasher, author of the Tora Shleima, and also the author
of an important responsa on the date line question, wrote the following:

"...There are those who ruled that (those who live on the other side
of the date line) should be stringent and keep two shabbatot. But in my
opinion, we should be worried that this stringency is actually a leinency,
because this damages the essence of the holiness of shabbat, and "whoever
adds on (actually) decreases", because the importance of the mitzva of
shabbat is to make known that in six days God created the world, and on
the seventh day He rested. And one who works five days, and rests two
shabbatot, is not fulfilling the mitzva of shabbat as it should...And
perhaps he should rest the second day only from melacha d'oraita (Tora
prohibited labor), and not d'rabbanan (rabbinicly prohibited work), so
there should be a recognizable difference." (Miluim 14, Parshat Yitro)

He bases this arguement, and in fact the entire article, on the idea
of the Tanna Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi, who said that just as we are
commanded to rest on shabbat, we are obligated to work the six days
of the week, as it says, "Six days you shall labor." 

David Curwin		With wife Toby, Shaliach to Boston, MA
904 Centre St.          List Owner of B-AKIVA on Jerusalem One
Newton, MA 02159                   <6524dcurw@...>
617 527 0977          Why are we here? "L'hafitz Tora V'Avoda"


From: Susan Hornstein <susanh@...>
Date: Tue, 09 May 95 13:30:51 EDT
Subject: Re: Entering Churches

Aliza asks about the permissibility of entering churches.  Some years
ago (12?)  I was studying simultaneously at Hebrew U. and Michlelet
Bruria (Brovender's) and was taking an architecture field trip course at
the Hebrew U.  Of course this question became a real issue.  I asked
R. Dovid Ebner (at Brovender's).  His response was that the Rov (zt"l)
had addressed this issue, and had concluded that, even for the purpose
of study (the Rov was a Medievelist I understand, and would therefore
have personally met up with this issue) it was not permissible to enter
an active church (one that still operates as such).  It would be ok to
go to an auditorium or other area in the church if one did so through a
door that was not used for the sanctuary.  I do not recall there being a
difference in psak for Catholic vs. other churches (but I also don't
recall framing the question that way).  I hope this helps.

Susan Hornstein


From: Jack Stroh <jackst@...>
Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 15:58:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Hailail-ben-Shachar

My navi group has been perplexed about a reference in Yeshayahu 14:12 to
"Hailail-ben-Shachar." The meforshim interpret this as a reference to
the Angel of Babylonia which will fall from grace before the babylonians
are destroyed by the Medes-Persians. The reference is further identified
as referring to the planet Venus. However, the Judaica Press version of
the Nach translate this as "Lucifer, the Morning Star." Our question is,
Lucifer does mean shining, but how did this star come to be identified
with Lucifer the devil? What connection does the Angel of Bavel have to
the Devil, and what connection does the Devil have with the Morning
Star?  We would appreciate any help from out there!


From: <schwartz@...> (Shimon Schwartz)
Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 18:19:40 +0500
Subject: Have another piece of kugel

The ongoing discussion over whether shiluach kaken is obligatory
alludes to another issue.  It is considered preferable in some circles
to eat enough cake, etc. at one sitting to "make shiur" for "al
hamichya" [moderately-long after-blessing on a major snack], as opposed
to having, e.g., one small cookie and saying "borei nefashot" [short
after-blessing on "minor" food].  There is clearly justification for
eating sufficient cake when making kiddush, which must be said "b'makom
seudah" [in the place where one dines].  On the other hand, if all I
want is one cookie as an afternoon snack, are there strong [any]
sources supporting the superiority of eating more cookies merely to
justify saying "al hamichya"?  Might it not be preferable to eat less
("Eat bread with salt, drink water in small measure..."--Pirkei Avot 6:4)
if that is what will satisfy me?



From: Zvi Weiss		 <weissz@...>
Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 09:47:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Isaac Breuer

Re his works:
  There is a collection of his works translated into English called 
"Concepts of Judaism" which also has some material on the Jewish State.  
Also, MANY years ago, there was published a small pamphlet which had 
Breuer's response to Herzl's "Judenstaat".  Finally, I saw when I was in 
Aretz a biography (I believe an autobiography) of Breuer.  I did not copy 
down the material but I will try to get the info within the next month or 
so (when the owner is back in Aretz).  THAT is in Hebrew and it 
elaborates upon Breuer's views -- ESPECIALLY vis-a-vis the Agudaist 
position which Breuer apparently did NOT fully agree with.


From: Jay Bailey <jbailey@...>
Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 15:21:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Kosher ovens

On the aliyah-oriented TACHLIS group, there is s discussion about dual
ovens that have a section for meat and one for milk. Just curious - how
many mj'ers use 2 ovens at all? What are the requirements vis-a-vis
using a single oven for both?

Jay Bailey


From: <mikep@...> (Mike Paneth)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 09:03:02 +1000
Subject: Mishne Baal Peh

We are currently running a very successful Mishne Baal Peh program and now 
wish to enhance it by introducing computer based aids.

Does anyone know of an existing system, or know anyone who has done any work 
in this area.
Mike Paneth
Melbourne Australia


From: <segs@...> (Susan Slusky)
Date: Thu, 4 May 95 13:08:14 EDT
Subject: Olympieda?

I was pleased and proud recently when we learned that my 15-year-old son
had won a science contest and was to be sent on a free trip to
Israel. However, the details have been slow to materialize so I thought
I'd see who on mail.jewish might know something about the organization,
contest, etc.

The contest is being run by the Israeli Museum of Science. I've never
heard of them. The name Recanati shows up on their letterlead. I _have_
heard of them and know there's big money there. What can you tell me
about the Israeli Museum of Science?

My son is apparently to be part of the American team that will compete
with an Israeli team in what they called a Science Olympieda. They said
the finals will be televised in Israel. Is this some regular event? What
can you tell me about it?

They'll be sending the "team" to Israel for almost a whole month this
summer.  At least part of this time will be spent at Technion.  Anyone
at Technion know about this?

While it's all very exciting, I'm not anxious to send my precious child
into an unknown situation. So far, I haven't gotten anything I could
really study and evaluate.

Thanks in advance for helping out.

Susan Slusky


From: M. Press <PRESS@...>
Date: Mon, 08 May 95 13:22:26 EST
Subject: Re: Order of Parshios

I just want to add to the comments made by a number of posters re the
order of the parshios in these weeks.  Rabbi Bechhofer is correct that
there is a specific takkana to read the tokhakha of Vayikra before
Shavuos (on which we are judged on the fruit of the trees); the source is
the Gmara in Megilla 31 stating that it  is one of the takkanos of Ezra.
Rav Amram Gaon in his Siddur gives several rules for the establishment
of the parsha reading (as someone pointed out, for the Galus, since in
EY the Torah was read triennially)and one of them is M'nu v'itzru,
meaning "Read the census" (Bamidbar) and then celebrate Shavuos (Atzeres).
This latter rule is again a consequence of Ezra's takkana to read the
tokhakha as close to Shavuos as possible, taking into account the other rules
requiring that Devorim be read immediately before Tisha B'av, etc. Ezra,
of course, never had a problem reading it immediately before Shavuos since in
his time they were not reading the Torah according to our fixed schedule.
Melech Press

M. Press, Ph.D.   Dept. of Psychiatry, SUNY Health Science Center
450 Clarkson Avenue, Box 32   Brooklyn, NY 11203   718-270-2409


From: <stephenp@...> (Stephen Phillips)
Date: Tue, 9 May 95 15:17 BST-1
Subject: Pirkei Ovos in Israel

What do they learn in Israel on the 7th Shabbos after Pesach as regards 
Pirkei Ovos?

Stephen Phillips.


From: Dave Curwin <6524dcurw@...>
Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 17:19:07 EDT
Subject: Rav Elimelech Bar Shaul

Can anyone here provide me with biographical info on Rav Elimelech Bar

David Curwin		With wife Toby, Shaliach to Boston, MA
904 Centre St.          List Owner of B-AKIVA on Jerusalem One
Newton, MA 02159                   <6524dcurw@...>
617 527 0977          Why are we here? "L'hafitz Tora V'Avoda"


From: Talya Naumann <an379@...>
Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 21:56:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Sleeve Length

[My daughter has a question she would like to put to MJ readers. Thank You.
Pam Naumann.]

I was asked to send out this question by my Mishpacha (family studies) 
teacher at school: What do the Rabbis say in regard to covering_the_elbow 
for women (this is not about wearing sleeves TO the elbow)? Rav Noyvert 
(in hebrew spelled nun-vav-yud-bet-yud-resh-tet) wrote an article in 
Shemaatin (in hebrew spelled shin-mem-ayin-tuph-yud-nun), periodical #11, 
p27 about this topic. If anyone has come across this source can you 
please E-mail it or explain what it says to the address below?

Talya Naumann
c/o Pam Naumann
Toronto, Canada


From: Jonathan Golden <jogolden@...>
Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 15:24:32 -0400
Subject: Who can sign ketubah?

I have heard different responses to the following question.  Any
comments would be helpful.

Can a shomer shabbat (religiously observant) uncle or great uncle to the
groom sign the ketubah (marriage document) as one of the two witnesses?
Is their familial relationship considered too "close" to the groom, thus
prohibiting their role as aydim (witnesses)?

Jonathan Golden
Kitchener, Ontario


End of Volume 19 Issue 51