Volume 21 Number 74
                       Produced: Tue Oct 31  0:24:31 1995

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

42 minutes
         [Steve White]
         [Micha Berger]
Answering machines
         [Aryeh Blaut]
Avoiding Customs/Duties and Halacha
         [David Charlap]
Food Processor on Yom Tov
         [Carl Sherer]
Jewish Homeschooling
         [Shoshana Sloman]
Mishnayos acronyms
         [Dan Goldish]
Nidda  Calculator
         [Avi Wollman]
         [Gerald Sutofsky]
Showers on Yom Tov
         [Frieda Loshinsky]
Smoking on Yom Tov (2)
         [Eliyahu Teitz, Carl Sherer]
Taxes in the Talmud
         [Erwin Katz]
The kriah for Shmini A'tze'res
         [M E Lando]
The laws governing interest
         [Shmuel Himelstein]
Time between Meat and Milk
         [Simmy Fleischer]


From: <StevenJ81@...> (Steve White)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 18:41:51 -0400
Subject: Re: 42 minutes

>From Elozor Preil in #68:
>The magical 42 minutes was a determination made by rabbonim in the early
>part of this century for the NY metro area only.  It represents what
>they judged to be the equivalent of the 18 minute bein hashmashos of the
>gemara, at the end of which three stars become visible.

But I'm also guessing it "caught on" because 42 + 18 = 60, or one hour;
that is, using 42 minutes, Shabbat ends exactly 25 hours after it
begins, which is easy for people to remember.

BTW, it was brought up earlier that people tend to use definitions of
"three medium stars" or "three small stars" to end Shabbat.  Based on
some fairly modern psak (I could look it up if anyone is interested),
those two events happen when the sun is 7 degrees 5 minutes below the
horizon and 8 degrees thirty minutes below the horizon respectively.
Most Orthodox shuls I know of who do not keep "Rabbenu Tam" time use the
"3 small stars time"; most Conservative shuls I know of use the "3
medium stars" time or 42 minutes, which is fairly close to that in the
latitudes near New York and Washington for most of the year.  Orthodox
shuls do use the "medium stars" definition for Rabbinical fasts, which
being Rabbinical lend themselves to a more lenient definition.


From: Micha Berger <aishdas@...>
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 07:46:49 -0500 (EST)
Subject: AD[H]D

Judging from the number of people who responded to the question about
Ritalin with personal anecdote, I wonder if there is enough demand to
justify an email group for Jewish parents of children with ADD, ADHD, or
PDD, or some other emotional problem that need not exclude the child
from mainstream society.
 (Those initials stand for: Attention deficit disorder, AD hyperactivity
D, and profound developmental disorder.)

One topic I'd want to discuss is my frustration with the lack of
schooling options. Where do you send a kid with average to above average
intelligence, but can't fit in a regular classroom? Thank G-d we have
options for learning disabled kids, with the kind of class size we
need. But my son would be bored, and therefor even more unruly, because
his problem is emotional, not intellectual.

Micha Berger 201 916-0287        Help free Ron Arad, held by Syria 3255 days!
<AishDas@...>                     (16-Oct-86 -  5-Oct-95)
<a href=news:alt.religion.aishdas>Orthodox Judaism: Torah, Avodah, Chessed</a>
<a href=http://haven.ios.com/~aishdas>AishDas Society's Home Page</a>


From: <AryehBlaut@...> (Aryeh Blaut)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 12:23:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Answering machines

>As the person who first raised this question I like the answer but find
>problems with its practical application - how does one know in advance
>whether the majority of callers are going to be Jewish or non-Jewish ?

The people who normally call me are: 1. Salespeople (who I don't want to
hear from on Shabbas or Yom Tov anyway) 2. Religious Jews (who will not
call me on Shabbas) or 3.  Non-religious Jews (ie: some family members
who may not be so sensitive not to call at certain times).  Therefore,
since most of my weekday callers are Jews, I work on the basis of rov
(most) and assume a Jew would be calling.



From: <david@...> (David Charlap)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 95 20:38:54 EDT
Subject: Re: Avoiding Customs/Duties and Halacha

<Gevaryahu@...> (Gilad J. Gevaryahu) writes:
>The obligation to pay taxes is part of the rules of the king, who had
>the right to impose a tax system on top of terumot u'ma'aserot. ...
>I equated the rules of a modern Israel with the rules of the king as to
>authority, [and I know that some will call that equation into question].
>Therefore, if you hold that dina de'malchuta dina does not apply to
>Israel, the rules of the king do.

This might have weight if Israel had a king.  It doesn't.  Israel has a
prime minister, whose power is much less than a king's would be.
Furthermore, the real power is weilded by a committe - the K'neset.
Rule by committee is certainly not part of any king's rule.

I don't think halachot referring to a king are applicable unless the
Davidic dynasty is reestablished, and the king is from the royal family.
When that happens, moshiach will have arrived.


From: <adina@...> (Carl Sherer)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 95 23:29:52 IDT
Subject: Food Processor on Yom Tov

Regarding the food processor on Yom Tov question - isn't the food
processor generally used to grind and/or puree food which would be the
melacha (work) of tochen (grinding)? If so, the mechanical/electronic
workings of the food processor are irrelevant because tochen comes
before lisha (kneading) in the baking process and the only cooking type
work we permit on Yom Tov is from lisha onwards.  Or did I miss

-- Carl Sherer
	Adina and Carl Sherer
		You can reach us both at:


From: <ssloman@...> (Shoshana Sloman)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 95 01:38 EST
Subject: Jewish Homeschooling

Anyone interested in Torah-based homeschooling, who would like to be
included in an on-line mailing list and/or receive a printed newsletter,
should e-mail me at <ssloman@...>  I'm in the process of creating
a forum in which Jewish homeschoolers can discuss curricula, activities,
techniques, etc., from a religious perspective.

Shoshana Amelite Sloman


From: <Dan_B_Goldish@...> (Dan Goldish)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 08:31 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Mishnayos acronyms

Is there a published list somewhere that identifies the 
beginning letter of each Mishna?  It's customary to learn 
mishnayos on a yahrzeit which spell out the name of the 
deceased, because "mishna" and "neshama" use the same 4 letters 
(nun, shin, mem, hay).  A cursory look at the Blackman series of 
mishnayos revealed a page listing the first few words of the 
chapters contained in each volume, but not the beginning words 
of the individual mishnayos contained within the chapters.  
Thanks in advance for any references.

A guten chodesh,

Dan Goldish
Boston, Mass.


From: <avi@...> (Avi Wollman)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 95 15:29:36 IST
Subject: Nidda  Calculator

I bought a year ago a Nidda Cycle computer from a israeli lod based firm
it came with hechsherim (=approvments) of a nice group of Rabbis after two
-three months I was sent a updateded version of it, after another three
months I was sent a letter thet a bug was found and no to trust the 
calculations. As most of the readers here know its very hard to write
bug proof programs including the fact that its possable to make these 
caculations complex (they don't have to be ask your Rabbi). The original
hechsherim were made on the presey that the software was debugged. As of
erev Rosh Hashana the firm has had it phone disconnected so I wonder if
there caculater is still for sale.

Avi Wollman - Technical Support Enginner                               Home:
Jerusalem College of Technology                             Kochav HaShachar
e-mail: <avi@...>                            DN Mizrach Binyamin
tel: 972-2-751170 fax: 972-2-422075                       tel: 972-2-9942644


From: <gerald.sutofsky@...> (Gerald Sutofsky)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 95 13:53:54 EST
Subject: Payot

I would like to know more about the mizvah of growing payot. What is its
source in the Torah? Are payot grown from the sideburns or from the hair
above the ear? Thanks for any information you can give me.


From: <friedal@...> (Frieda Loshinsky)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 95 10:46:11 EDT
Subject: Showers on Yom Tov

Just curious about people's opinions out there re: permissability of
showers on Yom Tov. I know of a pulpit rabbi who recently said its fine
as long as one takes the necessary precautions of not being ovair
anything: using liquid soap, not squeezing out water from hair, ...
However after a slight uproar in his congregation, he returned and said
it would be preferrable not to.  Any comments?


From: <EDTeitz@...> (Eliyahu Teitz)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 15:26:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Smoking on Yom Tov

There is a discussion in the Aruch HaShulchan concerning smoking on yom
tov where he claims that it is permitted because it is something that is
'shaveh l'chol nefesh' - something acceptable to people on all social
strata, one of the necessary requirements for something to be permitted
under the concept of ochel nefesh.

He does not discuss a situation where if attitudes change from
acceptable to unacceptable whether a previously permitted action can
become prohibited ( the opposite of smoking where something prohibited
became permitted because of social acceptance- this of course is only
valid reasoning for deciding shaveh l'chol nefesh concerns ).

Of course, with all the information about the dangers of smoking that
have come to light since the writing of the Oruch HaShulchan the point
should be moot.  As a previous posted pointed out, many believe that
there is no heter for starting to smoke in our present day.


From: <adina@...> (Carl Sherer)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 95 0:22:57 IDT
Subject: Smoking on Yom Tov

David Charlap writes:
> I thought smoking is asur at all times.
> Ever since the dangers of smoking became well-known, every rabbi I know
> has ruled that one should not smoke at any time.  The only exceptions
> I've ever heard are in the case of one who is already addicted to
> smoking, and even then the practice is looked down upon.

I believe that those who permit smoking permit it on Yom Tov as well
because they hold it is ochel nefesh.  Rav Moshe Feinstein zt"l paskened
that smoking is dangerous but did not out and out ban it (see Iggros
Moshe YD vol.2 #49).  According to the Artscroll biography (maybe not
the best source) Rav Yaakov Kaminetsky zt"l quit smoking when he heard
that it was dangerous.  Thus while the ruling you cite makes sense, I
doubt it has the universality that you attribute to it.  BTW - if you
can cite sources from respected poskim for the ruling you note above I
would be very interested in seeing them.

-- Carl Sherer
	Adina and Carl Sherer
		You can reach us both at:


From: ERWIN_KATZ_at_~<7BK-ILN-CHICAGO@...> (Erwin Katz)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 95 17:09:25 CST
Subject: Taxes in the Talmud

I refer your readers to the Gemara Pesachim, daf 112; amud "b". 
Translated loosely - Don't try o evade taxes, you might get caught and 
lose all your assets. 


From: M E Lando <landom1@...>
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 11:26:50 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: The kriah for Shmini A'tze'res

Every yomtov, we read for maftir from parshas Pinchas about the korbanos
(sacrifices) of that chag.  For the main k'ri'ah we read something that
discuses the yomtov.

Sh'mi'ni A'tze'res is the exception (I am only discussing chootz
l'a'retz).  Ashkenazim always read Ah'ser T'ah'ser from parshas R'ay.
S'fardim, following the M'chaber, read this only when it is also
shabbos.  On weekdays, they read the shorter version beginning with Kol
Ha'b'chor.(This shabbos weekday split is also followed by ashkenazim on
Pesach and Sh'vu'os.)

However, neither of these k'ri'yos mentions Sh'mi'mi A'tzer'es.  Why
don't we layn from the parsha where sh'mi'ni a'tzer'es is mentioned in
the Torah?

Mordechai E. Lando ha'm'chu'na Yukum


From: Shmuel Himelstein <himelstein@...>
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 09:09:10 GMT
Subject: The laws governing interest

Two nights ago (YomTov for you in Chutz La'araetz), I had to print up a
major job. As luck would have it, I ran out of paper just as I got
toward the end of the job. B"H I had a friend bring me a batch of paper
to Shul the next morning, so I was able to get the printing out job out
early that day.

Now the question - my friend brought me - let's say - an inch or so in
thickness of paper. I want to repay him, but have no idea exactly how
much he gave me. Can I give him an approximation? If it's more than he
gave me, is this Ribit - interest? Can I give him an approximate amount
with the stipulation that whoever came out on the raw end of the deal
forgos the difference?

Any ideas?

           Shmuel Himelstein
22 Shear Yashuv Street, Jerusalem 97280, Israel
    Phone: 972-2-864712: Fax: 972-2-862041
   EMail address: <himelstein@...>


From: <simmy.fleischer@...> (Simmy Fleischer)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 09:25:05 GMT
Subject: Time between Meat and Milk

Does anyone out there know what the minhag for the amount of time to
wait between meat and milk was in Strusev, Galicia (its in Europe now
part of Poland)?



End of Volume 21 Issue 74