Volume 21 Number 86
                       Produced: Wed Nov  8 23:14:10 1995

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

         [Aharon Manne]
Assassination of Rabin
         [Edwin Frankel]
Comments on the Funeral
         [Yitzchak Hollander]
Last Remarks By Late Prime Minister Rabin
         [Michael J Broyde]
National Religious Party self-review
         [Shmuel Himelstein]
Rabin's Assasination
         [Dov Green]
Rabin's murder, protests and the beating of demonstrators.
         [Joe Goldstein]
Zealotry (Kanna'uht) in Halacha
         [Josh Backon]


From: <manne@...> (Aharon Manne)
Date: Tue,  7 Nov 95 08:23:10 PST
Subject: Assassination

>From: <Chaimwass@...> (Chaim Wasserman)
>This incredulous "parasha" brings to mind several questions which
>rightly must be ponders by all, but most of all by those who abide by a
>Torah way of life.

This is certainly a time of questions more than answers.  I thank R'
Chaim for asking, and asking well.  My responses are more out of a need
to think out loud than any sense that I have the wisdom to answer these

>[1] Are the "yadayim y'day Esav" ever to be used against a Jew no matter
>how misguided he may be?...
>[4] Can Jews be trusted with political action? Can "frum" Jews be
>trusted with political activities? Are "frum" Jews suited for political
>action or are they sitting-ducks for extremism by dint of their very

According to this morning's radio reports Yigal Amir (sr"y) claims that
he acted in fulfilment of his obligation under halakha.  Of course,
there is no summary execution in halakha; he apparently has twisted the
concept of a pursuer ("rodef") into a warped justification of his
crime. The power of his evil impulse enabled him to twist what he heard
in Yeshiva into a justification of a crime which is "yehareg ve'al
ya'avor": one should suffer martyrdom rather than committing such a
desecration of G-d's name.

There is certainly room for serious soul-searching among all of us who
identify with Religious Zionism and the Yeshivot Hesder.  The answer
cannot be that the Torah is at fault for the actions of this criminal.
Further, the answer cannot be that the Torah makes those who learn it
unfit for participation in the public life of the people of Israel.

>[5] There have been other notorious political assassinations in the last
>century. Rav Kook was around and very much involved when the infamous
>Arlozoroff assassination tragically took place. I wonder what Rav Kook,
>zatzal, would be saying today to the media?  Is there anyone who could
>brave extrapolating what he might have said?

At the height of the furor after Arlozoroff's assassination, Rav Kook
reportedly took the Sefer Torah out of Ark, and holding it in his arms
said "I swear that a non-Jew killed Arlozoroff".  We don't have any such
luxury.  I can suggest that the following words of the Rav should be
learned very seriously and carefully:
   1.  The heart must be filled with love for all.
   2.  The love of all creation comes first, then comes the love for
   all mankind, then follows the love for the Jewish people, in which
   all other loves are included, since it is the destiny of the Jews to
   serve toward the perfection of all things.  All these loves are to
   be expressed in practical action, by pursuing the welfare of those
   we are bidden to love, and to seek their advancement.
      (from "Midot HaRa'aya", translated in "Abraham Isaac Kook", 
      ed. R. Ben Zion Bokser, Paulist Press, 1978)


From: <frankele@...> (Edwin Frankel)
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 07:53:30 -0100
Subject: Re: Assassination of Rabin

Responding to Matt Levit's comments on Yigal Amir's claims to frumkeit.
Forget them!  Any Jew who can so easily desicrate the mitzvah of Lo
tirzach, not to mention the mitzvot Bnai Noach about Shofech nefesh, is
no longer frum in any mesure of understanding.

When frumkeit is limited only to mitzvot ben adam l'Makom, then we see
to see halacha for what it is.  As dedicated as we are to yirat shamaim,
we live in a world where our interactions with fellow denizens of this
planet also count.  Halacha is an orach chayim that delimits every
aspect of our waking days.

Perhaps the disaster of last Motzaey Shabbos is the terrible wake-up
call that the frum community needs to remember.

Ed Frankel


From: Yitzchak Hollander <hollande@...>
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 13:42:01 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Comments on the Funeral

I watched the entire Rabin funeral this morning, and I was impressed by
the outpouring of support by world leaders, including Arab heads of
state like King Hussein and President Mubarak.  The show of support was
certainly appropriate; Am Yisrael has lost a leader.

However, some details of the ceremony bothered me:

 a) The avelim (mourners) did not tear kriah (tear their clothing in a
sign of mourning).
 b) The blood soaked songsheet should have been buried along with the
body.  If someone goes and hangs it up on a wall, there will be a
problem for Kohanim.
 c) Someone should have given Yuval Rabin a Kaddish sheet with nikkud
(vowels) to enable him to recite the Kaddish properly.
 d) The wrong Kaddish was recited at graveside (a special Kaddish is
said at graveside and at siyumim.)
 e) A shurah (double line) was not formed for the mourners to walk
through (though they might have organized one when the crowd thinned a
 f) Why was Kel Maley Rachamim recited twice? (after the eulogies and
again at the graveside)

There were a couple of other items, but I can't remember them offhand.

Who is in charge of organizing military funerals in Israel?  How
involved was the Rabbanut Tzvai (Military Rabbinate) and/or the Rabbanut
Rashit (Chief Rabbinate) I certainly don't mean to nitpick, but I would
have thought that the funeral ceremony would have followed traditional
norms more closely.

Yitzchak Hollander


From: Michael J Broyde <relmb@...>
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 14:46:28 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Last Remarks By Late Prime Minister Rabin

                             November 4, 1995

Permit me to say that I am deeply moved. I wish to thank each and every
one of you, who have come here today to take a stand against violence and
for peace. This government, which I am privileged to head, together with
my friend Shimon Peres, decided to give peace a chance -- a peace that
will solve most of Israel's problems.

I was a military man for 27 years. I fought so long as there was no chance
for peace. I believe that there is now a chance for peace, a great chance.
We must take advantage of it for the sake of those standing here, and for
those who are not here -- and they are many.

I have always believed that the majority of the people want peace and are
ready to take risks for peace. In coming here today, you demonstrate,
together with many others who did not come, that the people truly desire
peace and oppose violence. Violence erodes the basis of Israeli democracy.
It must be condemned and isolated. This is not the way of the State of
Israel. In a democracy there can be differences, but the final decision
will be taken in democratic elections, as the 1992 elections which gave us
the mandate to do what we are doing, and to continue on this course.

I want to say that I am proud of the fact that representatives of the
countries with whom we are living in peace are present with us here, and
will continue to be here: Egypt, Jordan, and Morocco, which opened the
road to peace for us. I want to thank the President of Egypt, the King of
Jordan, and the King of Morocco, represented here today, for their
partnership with us in our march towards peace.

But, more than anything, in the more than three years of this Government's
existence, the Israeli people has proven that it is possible to make
peace, that peace opens the door to a better economy and society; that
peace is not just a prayer. Peace is first of all in our prayers, but it
is also the aspiration of the Jewish people, a genuine aspiration for

There are enemies of peace who are trying to hurt us, in order to torpedo
the peace process. I want to say bluntly, that we have found a partner for
peace among the Palestinians as well: the PLO, which was an enemy, and has
ceased to engage in terrorism. Without partners for peace, there can be no
peace. We will demand that they do their part for peace, just as we will
do our part for peace, in order to solve the most complicated, prolonged,
and emotionally charged aspect of the Israeli-Arab conflict: the
Palestinian-Israeli conflict.

This is a course which is fraught with difficulties and pain. For Israel,
there is no path that is without pain. But the path of peace is preferable
to the path of war. I say this to you as one who was a military man,
someone who is today Minister of Defense and sees the pain of the families
of the IDF soldiers. For them, for our children, in my case for our
grandchildren, I want this Government to exhaust every opening, every
possibility, to promote and achieve a comprehensive peace. Even with
Syria, is will be possible to make peace.

This rally must send a message to the Israeli people, to the Jewish people
around the world, to the many people in the Arab world, and indeed to the
entire world, that the Israeli people want peace, support peace. For this,
I thank you.


From: Shmuel Himelstein <himelstein@...>
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 12:00:40 GMT
Subject: National Religious Party self-review

Today's (Tuesday's) Yediot Aharonot newspaper carried an article about
the National Religious Party (MaFDal) undertaking a self-examination.
The following quotes are reported in the newspaper:

Avraham Shtern, political secretary of the Kibbutz HaDati (Relgious
Kibbutz) movement: "The problem is that statements have been made by
people identified with the national religious camp, and we have not not
come out against them sufficiently strongly. We have erred in not acting
against them in a forceful manner."

Zevulun Orlev (Secretary-General of the NRP): "People see us as the
address (i.e., as being responsible - SH). It is a fact that all the
extremists on the right wear a Kippah (i.e., yarmulke) and are graduates
of religious educational institutions."

Hanan Porat (a member of the Knesset of the NRP): What is worst is that
they (i.e., the radical rightists) base themselves, so-called, on the
Halachah, and in doing so they distort the image both of Judaism and of
the Halachah, and cause a Chilul Hashem (desecration of God's name) on a
world-wide scale."

The article notes that tomorrow there will be a meeting to discuss this
whole issue, and it will include the NRP, Meimad (Rav Amital's more
centrist group) and the Yesha (Judea and Samaria) Council.

           Shmuel Himelstein
22 Shear Yashuv Street, Jerusalem 97280, Israel
    Phone: 972-2-864712: Fax: 972-2-862041
   EMail address: <himelstein@...>


From: Dov Green
Date: Tue, 07 Nov 95 08:47:44 
Subject: Rabin's Assasination

I would like to pose two questions:

1) The fact is that the two most heinous crimes committed in Israel
   during the past two years, were committed by bnei Torah. And we're
   are not talking about some wacky yeshiva in Schem, but the cream of
   J. educational institutions in Israel & the States ( YU, KBY,
   Bar-Ilan ). What does say about the teaching of Torah ?

2) This fellow went around his kollel for more than a year saying that
   Rabin should be killed. Had he walked around saying that he wanted to
   eat pork, how long would he have lasted in the Kollel ? What's the
   difference ?


From: Joe Goldstein <JOE-G@...>
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 16:09:21 -0500
Subject: Rabin's murder, protests and the beating of demonstrators.

    I just wanted to record some thoughts on the assassination of
Yitzchok Rabin, and the beating of protestors, the common thread between
them and the their cause.

   Even before the shooting of Rabin, my Chavrusa told me his father in
law just returned from Israel and said that he was visiting Efrat during
a protest, and saw Israeli soldiers beating Jewish women, who were there
with children. (I did not speak to him personally but I understood that
the protest was peaceful and the beatings were not called for.) He felt
there was an extra measure of beating for the "frum" women. The
animosity between the religious and non religious is growing.

   What is the source for these action of Jew against Jew?

   Just as a personal thought, there is a "vort" from the the "Ohr
Hachaim" on Chumash. he says in the Parsha of Ir Hanidachas, a city
destroyed because most of the people worshipped idols. The posuk says,
Hashem will give you "Rachamonus" and he will put Pity on you. (Venoson
lecho Rachamim Ve-richamcho). The O"H asked what does this mean, he will
put pity on you? And he explains when a person does an act of cruelty, a
person becomes cruel. Therefore, he says, what is more cruel than to
destroy an entire city? So Hashem tells the Jews that even though you
have done such cruel actions, since you have done my will I will bestow
on you an EXTRA measure of pity. This will counteract the cruelty that
has been implanted into the destroyers of the city.

   It could be that over the past 27 years Israeli soldiers patrolling
the occupied territories were forced to beat the Arabs. They were forced
to to whatever it took to assure the safety of "Achaynu Bnay Yisroel"
However, this had desensitized the soldiers and many of the yidden to
violence and therefore they see no difference to beating the Arabs to
beating ANYONE that is anti-government. The same may have affected this
Yigal Amir. He served in the Army. He was trained to kill anyone
attacking and threatening the security of Eretz Yisroel. Very sad and
warped but this may have been the first step to his final abhorrent,
aberrant act.

I look forward to the day that Moshiach will come and we may all live
together in Sholom and Shalvah.



From: <BACKON@...> (Josh Backon)
Date: Tue,  7 Nov 95 9:13 +0200
Subject: Zealotry (Kanna'uht) in Halacha

As most Israelis, I was shocked and horrified by the senseless murder of
Yitzchak Rabin z"l who devoted his entire life to the defense of his
country. Yet I was puzzled by the political correctedness of certain
elements in the Dati community here who were engaged in brow-beating.
Zealotry (KANNA'UHT) is an established and recognized facet of Judaism.
There is the well known dictum in the Mishna "HA'BOEL ARAMIT KANNAIM
POGIN BO". Zealots in the Beit HaMikdash who caught Cohanim misusing
utensils would bash in their heads with clubs and all this without due
process of a trial in a Beit Din. (I think this is in a Mishna in
Sandhedrin). The Rambam (Hilchot Chovel Umazik) says that we can kill a
MOSER (informer). Throughout the ages Jews had *terminated with extreme
prejudice* those who had converted (MESHUMADIM).

We have to face reality: these facets exist in halacha or at least given
tacit approval by Halacha. The question is how do we deal with this ? Do
we ignore it ? Pretend it doesn't exist ? Say it isn't true ?

Josh Backon


End of Volume 21 Issue 86