Volume 22 Number 03
                       Produced: Tue Nov 14 23:33:11 1995

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

         [Shalom Carmy]
Bar Ilan Kollel
         [Moishe Halibard]
Correction in Rav Kook posting
         [Anthony Fiorino]
More reflections on Rabin murder
         [Josh Males]
         [Shmuel Himelstein]
Rabin Assassination and Pulsa Denura
         [Max Shenker]
Rabin's name
         [Steven F. Friedell]
Self Righteousness and Hypocrisy
         [Moishe Kimelman]
Song of Peace and Resurrection
         [Sheila Tanenbaum]
Yigal Amir and shmirat halashon?
         [Shaul Ceder]


From: Shalom Carmy <carmy@...>
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 19:19:30 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Altalena

Rabin's autobiography "Pinkas Sherut" fails to mention the episode in his
account of the 1948 war. He gets back to it, and to his own role, in
Volume II (Part VII, chapter 17) in a flashback concerned with Begin's
election in 1977. 

Why Rabin chose to discuss the affair in out of chronological order is an 
interesting literary question.

Rabin states that in 1948 he believed that the Irgun was interested in a 
military takeover. In any event, Begin took the Prime Minister's office 
in 1977 legitimately. With characteristic assuredness he closes the 
chapter with a one sentence paragraph:

"The voter, according to the rules of democracy, is allowed to make a 


From: Moishe Halibard <halibard@...>
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 12:54:46 +0200 (WET)
Subject: Bar Ilan Kollel

It is untrue that Yigal Amir repeatedly said that he planned to kill
Rabin. Although I do not learn in the Kollel, I was as interested as 
everybody in understanding who this assassin was. He was an utterly
unremarkable student in  Bar Ilan, and nobody who knew him can understand
what came over him. It is anyway obvious that a person seriously planning
an assassiantion would not let people guess his plans. This seems to be
yet another example of the terrible misinformation campaign being waged
against the right-wing and religious people in the wake of this apalling


From: Anthony Fiorino <fiorino@...>
Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 10:10:31 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Correction in Rav Kook posting

I just wanted to correct a typo that resulted in a confusing (and 
ungrammatical) sentence in my posting on Rav Kook and the Alsosoroff murder.

I wrote:
> After the appeals court acquitted Jabotinsky, who had orchestrated 
> Stavsky's defense, publicly thanked Rav Kook for his efforts.

This should have read:

> After the appeals court acquitted *Stavsky*, Jabotinsky (who had 
> orchestrated Stavsky's defense) publicly thanked Rav Kook for his efforts.

Jabotinsky was neither charged nor acquitted by the court in relation to 
this matter.

In what must be considered a bizarre twist of fate connecting Rabin to
Arlosoroff, Rabin was an officer in the Palmach goup that sank the
Altalena, Stavsky's ship which was bringing arms to the Irgun in 1948.

In a certain sense, this bit on historical investigation has put Rabin's
assasionation (for me at least) into a broader historical context of
Jews killing Jews in the struggle for Israel.  In a strange kind of way,
there is comfort in knowing that Israel has withstood before the kind of
radical disunity in klal yisrael that leads to Jews murdering Jews.  On
the other hand, it is sad to realize (yet again) how historical lessons
so often go unlearned.

Eitan Fiorino


From: Josh Males <jmales@...>
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 95 17:27:00 
Subject: More reflections on Rabin murder

Item 1:
Michael Graetz writes in mail-jewish Vol. 21 #93:
>The song, "Shir la-shalom", is playing over and over on the radio. The
>music of Ya'ir Rosenblum and the words by Ya'akov Rotblitt were written
>as a joyous reaction to the peace with Egypt. I hope that it will become

Wrong! It was written during the war of attrition. Rehavam Zeevi (AKA
Gandhi) was commander of the Central Command (Pikud Merkaz) and outlawed
it because he thought it would demoralize the soldiers.

Item 2:
 Why does everybody think that right-wing politicians' statements incite
right-wingers? I would think that left-wing attacks would upset
right-wingers more. And vice-versa. For instance, Meretz has billboards
on buses that say "Who will cause the evacuation of Hevron?" That's
enough to boil many right-wingers' blood.  (Attention Moledet slogan
writers: Use the same poster with YOUR party's name and phone
number). Just like a "HaAm Neged Rabin" is enough to tick off
left-wingers. I think politicians should consider the effects their
words may have on their opposition before opening their mouths. Nobody
has asked Yigal Amir whose slogans influenced him more.

Item 3:
 Joe McCarthy would be having a field day here in Israel. Any
institution that Yigal Amir studied in has been trashed by the
media. Maariv ran a profile on Amir in their weekend paper, and it seems
that the educational institutions he attended had no effect on him. He
just was an obsessive, intense individual whose schooling crossed all of
the religious spectrum: Yishuv H.S. (Haredi), Kerem B'Yavneh, and Bar
Ilan University. All that's left to trash is the Golani brigade, his
elementary school, and his family.

How come nobody trashed Ben Gurion University after Mordechai Vanunu
released state secrets? Has anybody checked out Udi Adiv's educational
past? How about those kids who shot and killed taxi driver Derek Roth
last year? They were from Herzlia too. Unfortunately, there is no
shortage of horrible crimes in Israel, yet nobody seems to check out the
education that all the criminals received. Nor did any of their mentors
have to answer and apologize.

In short, it's a tough time for the kippa-wearing crowd.  The hillul
Hashem caused by this murder is immense.

Joshua D. Males   <jmales@...>


From: Shmuel Himelstein <himelstein@...>
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 20:23:35 GMT
Subject: Perspective

In MJ 21N92, David Kramer paints a picture of living in Israel which
makes me wonder if we're living in the same country (and I'm not
referring to the fact that he lives in the Shomron and I live in
Yerushalayim - albeit across the former "Green Line").

He paints a picture of daily abuse on turning on the radio, etc.
Funnily enough, I, too listen to the radio and read the local Hebrew
press, and I have not found anything beginning to resemble the patterns
he describes. If anything, the only pressures I have felt were the
reverse - literal fear to put up a bumper sticker in favor of peace (a
Pasuk), with a real fear that my car might be vandalized. I have since
put up the Pasuk.

I also believe that Mr. Kramer oversimplifies a great deal, when he 
mentions the comparison made by members of the government to the Hamas 
- yes, I've heard it, but the way I heard it was that the way the Right 
seized upon every terrorist action to prove that the Oslo agreement is 
doomed was compared by certain ministers to the way the Hamas used 
every terrorist attack as a way to try to bring Oslo down. This is a 
far cry from equating the two.

While Mr. Kramer tells us that the press and media only showed the few 
crazies at Right-wing demonstrations, and how all the leaders at these 
meetings asked the people to show restraint (and here he uses the term 
"the Big Lie"), he again must be living in a different country. I 
myself saw on television - at a meeting attended by all the Right-wing 
bigwigs - after a statement made by one of them (I forget who) the 
*entire* crowd waving clenched fists in unison and screaming out, over 
and over "Ra-bin Bo-geid, Ra-bin Bo-geid" (Rabin is a traitor), while 
all those at the dais stood by looking bemused, and certainly not 
making any attempts to quell this. If anything, the screaming people 
with the clenched fists looked like scenes from events a few decades 
earlier. I may point out - as reported in Friday's Hebrew press - that 
two of the major figures in the Likud, Dan Meridor and Ze'ev Begin, had 
stopped some time ago to attend these demonstrations *because* of these 
manifestations. If there is any Big Lie, it is that of the Right about 
the peaceful call by its leaders at these meeetings. Incidentally, does 
anyone believe that the late Menachem Begin would have allowed a 
demonstration to go on, after signs were displayed of Rabin in an S.S. 
uniform? I am convinced he would not - whereas the present leaders went 
right ahead, unruffled.

I would also like to add that - contrary to allegations by others (not 
Mr. Kramer) about how religious education suffered under the present 
government, this Friday's Yom Hashishi has an article by Rav Yehudah 
Amital, the Rosh Yeshiva of the  Gush and a personal friend of Yitzchak 
Rabin. He mentions that Rabin told him, "If you need anything for the 
religious education system, don't go to the Minister of Education. Come 
to me." And, as Rav Amital concludes: "I am overjoyed that there was 
never any need to do so, and his statements served their purpose."

           Shmuel Himelstein
22 Shear Yashuv Street, Jerusalem 97280, Israel
    Phone: 972-2-864712: Fax: 972-2-862041
   EMail address: <himelstein@...>


From: Max Shenker <shenker@...>
Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 08:45:27 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Re: Rabin Assassination and Pulsa Denura

> Does anyone have any information about the predictions and ceremonies
> done by certain Kabbalists (e.g. R. Kadouri (sp?))  and their connection
> to the death of Rabin?

The latest issue of The Jerusalem Report magazine, released a few days 
before the assassination, has a cynical article about a "pulsa denura" 
performed by local kabbalists in order to cause the death of the prime 
minister.  The author mockingly states that Rabin should be dead sometime 
in the begining of November.  The article made its rounds through the 
yeshivas the day after the murder and gave everyone a good chill, but the 
consensus among the rebeim at my yeshiva (some of whom know what they are 
talking about in this area) was that there was definitely, positively no 
relation between this kabbalistic curse and Rabin's death.  One of their
arguments was that any kabbalist who would perform such a ritual and then 
allow it to be leaked to the international press is obviously a charalan.

Max Shenker


From: <friedell@...> (Steven F. Friedell)
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 09:55:02 -0500
Subject: Rabin's name

In vol. 21 no. 99 Steve White wrote:
>Which reminds me...does anyone know the Prime Minister z''l's full name
>with patronymic so that we can say a Kel Maley for him?

Accordiing to a statement issued by the Israel Ministry of Foreign
Affairs (http://www.israel-mfa.gov.il/news/rabbis.html), Rabin's Hebrew
name was Yitzhak ben Nehemiah.


From: <kimel@...> (Moishe Kimelman)
Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 12:26:37 +1000
Subject: Self Righteousness and Hypocrisy

In a recent post, David Kramer of Ginot Shomron bemoaned the treatment
that datiim were receiving at the hands of the media who have laid the
blame for the assasination at the feet of Netanyahu and the other
leaders of the right.  Their alleged failure to denounce the crazies in
the crowds who called for violent action to be taken is seen as having
had a direct hand in Rabin's shooting, and of course the datiim are in
league with the extremists.

Let us look at this objectively.  It is true that we religious Jews
ought to be the first to learn the lessons of even very recent history,
as the passuk says "z'chor y'mot olam..." - remember the days of yore.
If we are enjoined to study the causes of the flood and the dispersion,
so that we can avoid repeating the mistakes of earlier generations, we
should certainly be able to learn the lessons of the last weeks and

Apparently Yigal Amir was allowed with little restraint to announce in
the Bar-Ilan kollel that Rabin deserved to die.  We have since been told
that more notice should have been taken of his rhetoric.  True, he never
actually announced that he seriously intended to kill Rabin, and he had
certainly never killed anybody in cold blood before, but violent
rhetoric must always be taken seriously.  As is the halacha when someone
hears slander "l'maichash b'ina" - I must be concerned that it is
perhaps not simply empty rhetoric.

Well I, for one, have learned to never again dismiss empty threats.
Yasser Arafat ys"v - someone who has called for and carried out
cold-blooded murders countless times in the past - has time and again
called for a jihad against Israel.  He has even done this after signing
peace accords with Israel.  The Israeli media has dismissed this as
empty rhetoric, but of course there are very few datiim amongst the
journalists, and they cannot be expected to fulfill the command of "binu
shnot dor vador" - understand the lessons of each generation.  But as a
frum Jew I have to learn from experience.  Arafat is a murderer and - on
pain of being castigated by the media - I must not believe that he does
not really intend to wipe out the Jews in Eretz Yisrael c"v.

Lesson 2: Shulamit Aloni, Yossi Sarid et al have for years been calling
for an end to Torah-Judaism, and I had never taken them seriously.  I
suppose that now I should.


From: <SheilaTAN@...> (Sheila Tanenbaum)
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 17:51:41 -0500
Subject: Song of Peace and Resurrection

>Does talking about "not returning after death" == heresy of not
>believing in the future Resurrection

I have been reading this in several places. So then, how do you explain,
in Hallel, where we say "lo hamaytim yihallelu ya, velo kol yordi duma"
which also could be stretched out to be anti future resurrection?

Thanks for any explanations.
Sheila Tanenbaum


From: <ceder@...> (Shaul Ceder)
Date: Sun, 12 Nov 95 18:35:26 PST
Subject: Yigal Amir and shmirat halashon?

Several months ago, I asked Rav Yitzchak Berkowitz of Aish HaTorah how
permissible it was to criticize the Israeli government in the letters
column of a publication read mostly by gentiles. Rav Berkowitz replied
that there is definitely a problem of malshinut, and that the only
permissible instance where this can be done is in the case of a rodef.

While I have absolutely no intention of entering the fray about whether
the status of a rodef applied to Mr. Rabin, it is quite clear that Yigal
Amir, once he had been apprehended, no longer had the status of rodef in
anybody's book. Does that mean that it is halachically forbidden to
denounce Amir in the gentile press?

Name: Shaul Ceder
E-mail: ceder@]netvision.net.il


End of Volume 22 Issue 3