Volume 23 Number 39
                       Produced: Mon Mar 11 19:44:45 1996

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Appeal to Women/Update on World-wide Tehillim Project
         [Sharon First]
Bat Mitzvah dvar Torah on Parshat Bemidbar
         [Michael  Berger]
Battered Wives and Lashon Hara
         [Perry Zamek]
Delivery of Chametz on Pesach
         [Elozor Preil]
Halachic Trickery
         [Jack Stroh]
Hashem's Attributes
         [Avrohom Dubin]
Israel Promoting Intermarriage
         [Joseph Steinberg]
Mail in Transit--Whose?
         [Shlomo Grafstein]
Spousal Abuse
         [Michael  Berger]
Starbucks Coffee
         [Marc Joseph]


From: <SharnF@...> (Sharon First)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 12:33:29 -0500
Subject: Appeal to Women/Update on World-wide Tehillim Project

This appeal is endorsed by Rabbi Avrohom Pam, Rabbi Shmuel Kaminetzky,
Rabbi Yaakov Perlow, Rabbi Chaim Benoliel, and Rabbi Yosef Harari

The women in the generation of the Mishkan had a special talent.  They
spun weak individual fibers together to form strong rope-strands.  From
these strands, strong fabric was woven which was used to create the
Mishkan from where Hashem's blessings and protection emanated.
(Shmos/Exodus 35:25).

We have recently witnessed many frightening and painful events.  Tragedy
and illness and personal pain have unfortunately become everyday
occurences in our community. These occurences must move us to Cheshbon
HaNefesh, spiritual repentance, and a recommitment to the principles of
Chessed, Emes, Ahavas Yisroel, and our obligations towards one another.
We will then hope to merit Hashem's blessings and protection as a united
and sacred community.

The time has come for Jewish women to join and gather together in
Tefilla and Tachanunim to ask Hashem Yisborach to fill our hearts with
mutual love and improve our behavior with noble deeds of kindness and

In this spirit, we hope to encourage each other to set aside a few
minutes each day to learn the proper practice of the Torah commandment
to "Love Your Neighbor" as taught by the Chofetz Chaim and other
gedolim.  ******* As previously posted, in cooperation with the appeal
above, women in communities around the world will be reciting tehillim
and learning about the mitzvah of "ve-ahavta le-re-echa kamocha" as
described above, on March 12, at 8 p.m. NYC time where possible.  The
tehillim to be recited are: 20, 121, 130, 142, and 144.

This is the updated list of the communities that are participating so
far: Russia, Hong Kong, Argentina, Australia, Hungary, Poland, Tunesia,
Switzerland, Italy, France, London, Mexico City, Gibraltar, Australia,
Los Angeles, Chicago, Baltimore, Toronto, St.Louis, Palm Springs (CA),
Kansas City, San Francisco, Miami, Milwaukee, Seattle, Staten Island,
Monsey, Lakewood, Morristown, Crown Heights, Denver, Baltimore,
Minneapolis, Detroit, Scranton, Upper West Side (Manhattan), Washington
Heights, Passaic, Teaneck, Lawrence, Cleveland, and many communities in
Israel. If you can reach a community we have not been able to contact,
please go ahead and let us know. Thank you for your help.


From: Michael  Berger <mberg02@...>
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 12:35:44 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Bat Mitzvah dvar Torah on Parshat Bemidbar

	I believe there was an article in an issue of Tradition several 
years ago by Zvi Grumet on the emphasis on structure as a guide for 
understanding Sefer Bemidbar.  It could easily relate to issues of order 
and structure (with Mishkan in center) as a paradigm for the ideal Jewish 


From: <jmarksmn@...> (Perry Zamek)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 18:44:10 +0200
Subject: Battered Wives and Lashon Hara

In v23n37 the anonymous posting re battered wives ended as follows:

>	I am posting this without my name because the Bet Din that is 
>handling the Get has said that I am not allowed to tell people that I was 
>abused, so that my, G-d willing, soon to be x-husband can remarry! 

What is the Halachic basis for "protecting" the husband in this way? Granted
that the Bet Din may be concerned that the husband will withdraw his
agreement to give the Get, but after the Get, the community is still left
with a problem, if the wife cannot speak out.

More generally, this issue raises the following questions:

1. Does the Bet Din have an obligation, if it knows that the person is/was a
wife-abuser and that he is contemplating marriage, to warn the woman
concerned, under the laws relating to permissible lashon hara? 

2. If others know, do they also have an obligation? 

3. Do the laws of "Hocheach Tochiach" (reproof), and "Lo Ta'amod al Dam
Re'echa" (not standing [idly] by the blood of one's fellow-human -- roughly
translated, halachically-mandated (?) interventionism) also apply?

4. Under what circumstances can or should a Bet-Din require a husband to
give a Get? Is this possible in the US? Israel? 

I am writing in order to open this as a thread, in the hope that awareness
of the problem will grow, and that rabbis will seek solutions within Halacha
based on Tzedek and Chessed (righteousness and kindness).

Perry Zamek   | A Jew should live his life in such a way
Peretz ben    | that people can say of him: "There goes
Avraham       | a living Kiddush Hashem".


From: <EMPreil@...> (Elozor Preil)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 21:13:15 -0500
Subject: Delivery of Chametz on Pesach

>What happens if they are subject to some wierd delay in the mail and I
>don't get them until the middle of Pesach?!?!?  What do I do with them?

We in Bergen County had a similar experience two years ago (I believe)
when Erev Pesach fell on Shabbos.  Our local paper, which many have
delivered, decided to bless us that day with a free sample - of a new
cookie product!
 We were instructed to carefully crumble the cookie into the toilet and
dispose of it completely as soon as we got home from early minyan,
before the z'man (time) when owning chametz would be prohibited.

Kol tuv, 


From: <jackst@...> (Jack Stroh)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 13:48:13 -0500
Subject: Halachic Trickery

My father-in-law and I have found 2 troubling concepts regarding trickery
in the Gemorah that I would like to hear some comment on.
        First, in Avoda Zarah 28:, Rabbi Yochanan had pain and went to a
matron to heal him. She told him to apply a compress on Thursday and
Friday. He asked, "what if I'm in pain on Shabbat?" She replied that he
wouldn't need it. He said, "what if I do?" She said if he   promised not to
tell anyone her secret she would tell him. He therefore swore to "G-d of
Israel" he would not tell. She gave him her secret and the next day he told
everyone her secret. The gemorah says that he swore not to tell Hashem the
secret, a loophole.  Even if this is OK according to the letter of the law,
isn't this, as the gemorah itself acknowledges, a Chilul Hashem?
        Second, in Chagiga 13. there is a story about the sages of
Pumpedita wanting to learn Maaseh Mercavah (Heavenly Science) from Rabbi
Yochanan in exchange for teaching him Maaseh Braishit(Creation). They teach
him about creation, then he backs out and says that you can't teach secret
        How do these 2 stories jive with leading a Torah true existence ?


From: <AbePd@...> (Avrohom Dubin)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 00:58:02 -0500
Subject: Hashem's Attributes

Exactly.  See Sefer Hachinuch 545 at length (before he begins quoting
the Ramban).  Essentially, G-d is not bound by any Middah, but rather
for his own reasons decides to take them on.



From: Joseph Steinberg <steinber@...>
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 19:10:31 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Israel Promoting Intermarriage 

This is almost unbelievable... Especially the ending... 

IMRA (Dr. Aaron Lerner) interviewed a representative of the Spokesman's
Office of the Ministry of Religious Affairs on March 1, 1996

IMRA:  There are reports today that the Ministry of Religious Affairs
supports earmarking NIS 2 million to Jewish-Arab organizations which run
programs and clubs to bring together Jewish youth with Arab Moslems and

Spokesman: The Ministry is encouraging these programs.  The money,
however, is not from our budget.  The money comes from the Estate
Committee (each year Israel "inherits" money from people around the
world who listed Israel as a benefactor in their wills.  This committee
disburses the funds - IMRA).  In this era of peace it is more important
than ever to encourage understanding between religions.

IMRA:  Are there similar program to encourage nonreligious and religious
Jews to meet with each other? 

Spokesman:  Yes, there are several such groups.

IMRA:  Does the Ministry also support these groups?

Spokesman:  I do not know, but if they apply for funding I am certain that
they will enjoy our consideration and support. 

IMRA: There has been some criticism that when you take nonreligious
Jewish youth and meet them with Moslems and Christians that, because of
the shallow backgrounds of the Jews, it is similar to taking illiterates
and putting them in a meeting with authors.

Spokesman:  We don't intervene in how the programs are organized.  We put
out requests for proposals for programs in this area and the organizations
apply.  We do not tell them what to do.  I would not say that all
nonreligious have no knowledge of Judaism. 

IMRA:  Does the Ministry ask the organizations to select Jews who do have
some kind of minimal understanding? 

Spokesman:  No.  We do not make such a requirement.

IMRA:  People who work on the problem of Jews who join cults say that when
you take Jews who have no backgrounds and put them face to face with
people who have rich backgrounds that the Jews leave these meetings
convinced that Judaism is shallow as compared to other faiths and this
further damages whatever little connection they may have to the Jewish

Spokesman:  You are right, but this is not the problem of the Ministry. 

IMRA:  Couldn't the Ministry insist that these organizations put the
Jewish participants through some kind of Jewish educational program before
introducing them to other cultures so that they can meet as equals? 

Spokesman:  We cannot tell the organizations what to do.

IMRA:  There is also the problem that because the Jews have poor
backgrounds, that such meetings encourage intermarriage. 

Spokesman:  The purpose of the meetings is to encourage understanding. 
Other things may happen but that is not the point.  When you join together
religious and nonreligious Jews they also may end up marrying each other. 

IMRA:  Is it a problem that Jews marry each other?

Spokesman:  There are parents who would not be happy about it.

Dr. Aaron Lerner, Associate  
IMRA (Independent Media Review & Analysis)
Tel 972-9-9O4719/Fax 972-9-911645
pager  O3-675O75O subscriber 4811
To subscribe, please send request to <imra@...>


From: <RABIGRAF@...> (Shlomo Grafstein)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 14:12:26 -0400
Subject: Mail in Transit--Whose?

 The question appeared: If someone sent hamantashen and they did not
arrive until after Pesach, to whom does it belong?  The "poster" thought
that maybe one would not trangress possession of chometz.  He indicated
that it belonged perhaps to the postal authorities.
 I help people in my community to get a Get, that is to facilitate a
Jewish Divorce.  Sometimes it happens that the Get (the bill of divorce)
is written in Toronto and and sent by Post Canada.  Let me tell you that
the husband appoints a Shaliach -- an agent to hand the document to his
wife .  The agent can appoint another agent up to one hundred.  All is
valid as long as the Get goes from the husband into the wives hands in
front of our Beth Din, visa a Shaliach.  Post Canada a no time owns the
document.  It always belongs to the husband, until the wife acquires it.
At that point of acquisition she is no longer his wife.
 The gentleman who is worried that the hamantashen may not arrive before
Pesach should make Kosher L'Pesach Hamantashen with Matzah Meal!! After
all the 3 days which Esther fasted were the commencement of the Pesach
 Wishing you well
Shlomo Grafstein
Halifax Canada 


From: Michael  Berger <mberg02@...>
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 12:44:00 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Spousal Abuse

	The recent post by an anonymous woman about her situation tore
me to pieces.  The level of ignorance about this problem in the
community - or worse, those who know about it and hope it will go away
if they don't talk about it - creates REAL victims, who undergo REAL
suffering.  I personally was stunned to learn that she could not divulge
her identity so that her soon-to-be ex-husband could re-marry: who will
be the next korban?  Why not make a mecha'a or add to his get the
condition of psychiatric help?
	Perhaps if all mj-ers took a copy of her letter to show to
rabbis and friends, more people would be aware of this genuine problem
that afflicts so many communities, even our own.

[I think this would a powerful message, if every list member printed out
one or two of the recent messages, esp the one referenced above and just
gave a copy to their local Rabbis. Mod.]


From: <mjoseph@...> (Marc Joseph)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 19:11:59 +0000
Subject: Re: Starbucks Coffee

> In a recent posting, T. Arielle Cazaubon stated:
> > Starbucks flavored coffees have some sort of unauthorized kashrut symbol on
> > them, but the OU has announced that they are definitely NOT kosher
> I am curious and concerned as to which flavors are considered "flavored"
> coffees at Starbucks.  I have never seen anything which appeared to be a
> "flavored" coffee (e.g. vanilla, irish creme, hazelnut-coconut-rasberry-
> macadamia-fudge, or whatever bizarre concoction you want) at the Starbucks
> outlets I have frequented in the Los Angeles area.  The issue is important
> because some people I know rely on the absence of flavored coffees to be
> able to buy coffee that is put through the grinder at the Starbucks stores.
> Ruth Neal

I am not a kashrus inspector, but I do know with some certainty that it
is stardard practice in the coffee industry to keep flavored and
unflavored coffee well segregated. This is done because the flavoring,
which is added after roasting is oil based, and will "contaminated" any
unflavored coffee which comes into contact with it. Therefore, separate
storage bins and grinders are used, eliminating the kashrus concern that
you mention. This should also hold for true establishments other than
Starbucks, but it would seem best to check with the staff to be on the
safe side.



End of Volume 23 Issue 39