Volume 23 Number 61
                       Produced: Sun Apr 14 18:55:24 1996

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Best Email List
         [Sam Saal]
Bugs in Vegetables
Death on Shabbat
         [Tara Cazaubon]
Hagadah question
         [Mandy G. Book]
Harav Nosson Ordman zt"l
         [Jonathan Rabson]
How Do We Know That
         [Menachem A. Bahir]
Korban Pesach in Modern Times
         [Chaim Wasserman]
Matrilineal descent
         [Jack Stroh]
Menorah in the Vatican
         [Michael J Broyde]
Mother's Day explained
         [Tara Cazaubon]
Naming Babies
         [Michael  Berger]
Rambam and Providence
         [Shalom Carmy]
Request for help
         [Zvi Weiss]
SheHeheyanu and Sfirat HaOmer
         [Rafi Stern]
Starbucks Coffee
         [David Charlap]
Temple Menorah
         [Nicolas Rebibo]
Writing On Chol Hamoed
         [David Brotsky]


From: Sam Saal <saal@...>
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 09:56:50 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Best Email List

Newsweek magazine has a weekly article on cyber-stuff.  They are
currently running a `vote' for your favorite mailing list.  If you
would like to submit this list as one of your favorites, please do!

Here's what the Newsweek blurb says:

        "Are you bypassing the raucous flame wars on the Net
        in favor of mailing lists (discussion groups conducted
        over e-mail instead of bulletin boards)?  Send us the
        names of your favorite mailing lists [e-mail address]
        We'll publish the best."

E-mail address is: <cscope@...>

Include the list name/address and the owners name and userid.  There is
a chance for national coverage.

Sam Saal      <saal@...>
Vayiphtach HaShem et Pea haAtone


From: Anonymous
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 23:06:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Bugs in Vegetables

I am the same anonymous poster who started the discussion about checking
vegetables for insects a while back. The general thrust of the responses
seems to be that there is really not as much disagreement about the
halacha as I had thought, and that the real problem is one of putting
the halacha into practice. In other words, whereas I had thought that
people were looking more carefully than the halacha requires, the
reality seems to be they they know what to look for. I thank everyone
who contributed to the discussion, and (bli neder) I will try to find
someone in my area who can show me what to look for - because I *still*
haven't found any bugs!


From: <tarac@...> (Tara Cazaubon)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 10:39:33 -0800
Subject: Death on Shabbat

I had heard that it was a good omen to die on shabbat.  Has anyone ever
heard this and if so, why is it considered particularly good?


From: Mandy G. Book <mbook@...>
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 19:57:20 -0500 ()
Subject: Hagadah question

Upon reading the hagadah with my family at Seder this year, we thought of 
an interesting question:

Much is made of the phraseology of the wicked son's question to his 
father concerning  Passover tradition; specifically, much 
speculation about the wicked son's use of the term "you" and its 
implication that he is wicked because he sets himself apart.  How, then, 
do we explain that the wise son ALSO uses the term "you" -- in the 
Hebrew, his question uses the word "etchem".

Is there something more that makes the wicked son wicked?  Is there 
something that differentiates one "you" from the other?

Chag kasher v'sameach,
Mandy Book


From: Jonathan Rabson <jrab@...>
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 23:50:11 +0100
Subject: Harav Nosson Ordman zt"l

Harav Hagaon Rabbi Nosson Ordman z"tl, Rosh Yeshiva of London's Yeshivas
Etz Chaim for more than 50 years, was niftar on 2nd day Pesach - aged
90.  Born in Tavrik, Lithuania and educated in Telz, he came to London
in 1936 where he rose to prominence as Rav, Rosh Yeshiva, and phenomenal
marbitz Torah to many hundreds of devoted talmidim.  He was also a
leading Yiddish writer and former editor of the London Jewish Tribune.

Over the years, many people's lives were touched by Rav Ordman - this
may include you or a member of your family.  The Ordman family (my wife
is a granddaughter) are gathering any stories, anecdotes, letters, notes
or other information about Rav Ordman and his life as a tribute to this
very special individual.  There are no immediate plans for publication.

If you have anything to submit, please e-mail me personally -
<jrab@...> - and I will forward it to his 2 sons (Yaakov &
Nachum) in London, and his son (Dovid) and daughter (Leah Eisenkraft) in
Bnei Brak.

May he be a melitz yosher for all klal yisroel.

Jonathan Rabson


From: <tjvmab@...> (Menachem A. Bahir)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 1996 19:33:11 -0700 (MST)
Subject: How Do We Know That

On Thu, 21 Mar 1996, Alan Zaitchik refered to a book called 
"How Do We Know That" by professor Jay Harris of Harvard University.Does
anyone know where I can get a copy of this book?
Thank You.
Founder, The Jewish Vegan Lifestyle;e-mail: <tjvmab@...>
        mail address:2114 West Bethany Home Road
                     Phoenix,Arizona 85015  USA


From: <Chaimwass@...> (Chaim Wasserman)
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 1996 15:00:50 -0400
Subject: Korban Pesach in Modern Times

>On Tue, 26 Mar 1996, Gilad Gevaryahu wrote:
>> A known talmid chacham asked me to post this qustion to the group. He is
>> collecting information on this subject. (If the answer would have been
>> straight forward he would not have posted it!)

A most important source is R. Tzvi Hirsch Kalischer's DERISHAT
TZIYON. He was in touch with his two rebbis on the matter and they gave
him their approbation in pursuiong the thinking that Korban Pesach may
be offered back in the middle of the 19th century. The rebbis were
R. Akiva Eger and R.  Yaakov Loeberbrum aka as the Nesivot and the
Derech haChayim.

Chaim Wasserman


From: <jackst@...> (Jack Stroh)
Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 20:30:58 -0500
Subject: Matrilineal descent

I am writing a paper on matrilineal descent (ie. the religion goes after
your mother) and need several sources. Any ideas?


From: Michael J Broyde <relmb@...>
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 1996 23:31:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Menorah in the Vatican

Although I am not an expert of Jewish-Christian relations or artifacts of 
the beit hamikdash, the story recounted about the menorah being hidden 
somewhere in the Vatican strikes me as a "tall tale" for a number of 
reasons, the most significant being the one I heard from a well know 
Jewish historian who noted that Rome and the Vatican had been sacked -- 
looted from top to bottom -- a number of times from the year 425 c.e. to 
900 c.e. and the likelyhood that the Vatican could keep a solid gold 
menorah that whole time would seem very very small.
	In addition, the tale from the archives of the Jewish Press seems 
simply to pat to be real. 
Michael Broyde


From: <tarac@...> (Tara Cazaubon)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 10:38:27 -0800
Subject: Mother's Day explained

The mystery over the origin of Mother's Day appears to be solved.  I was
watching a PBS special yesterday on the American Civil War.  There was a
woman named Anna Jarvis in Virginia who organized women to make food and
clothing for the soldiers.  She herself lost 6 children during the war.
After her death on the 2nd Sunday in May (can't remember the year,
probably late 1800's) one of her daughters lobbied the federal
government to declare that date Mother's Day in honor of her and all the
women who supported the war effort.  So it appears to be a secular
holiday unrelated to a particular religion.


From: Michael  Berger <mberg02@...>
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 08:45:53 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Naming Babies

	A recent post about the name Gilad being inappropriate for a
child seems to have a lot to do with contemporary views of Jewish
figures - I've never fully understood how one of the major tannaim was
named Ishmael.  My hunch is that the midrash(im) about his doing
teshuvah sufficiently rehabilitated that biblical personality as to
render the name "kosher" for Jewish children at the time.  Note that
Eisav's name never undergoes that process during this period, largely
due to Edom's association with the evil Roman empire.
	Many figures from Tanakh, however, have midrashim express
multiple views of them that it's hard to say one name is "pas nisht"
while another isn't.  Witness the "new" or "revived" names among the
dati-le'umi community in Israel.


From: Shalom Carmy <carmy@...>
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 10:28:22 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Rambam and Providence

The Rambam's position in the Guide is discussed, from a modern point of 
view, in R. Soloveitchik's HALAKHIC MAN, towards the end. The position 
taken there is presented with greater elaboration, in my article "Tell 
Them I've Had a Good Enough Life," slated for publication in the Jouranl 
of Torah uMadda & to appear as a chapter in a book I am editing on Jewish 
Perspectives on Suffering.


From: Zvi Weiss <weissz@...>
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 09:49:43 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Request for help

Some VERY Brief answers to some of those quseitons that were raised:
1. I beleive that ONLY Jews are required to sacrifice at the temple.  If 
I recall correctly, there was NO prohibition of "Shechutai Chutz" 
(Sacrificing outside the Temple) for Non-Jews...
2. Atonement is NOT [only] obtained by sacrifice.  This appears to be a 
relatively common misconception in the Non-Jewish World.  Korbanot were a 
*tool* for the attainment of atonement for CERTAIN violations.

These 2 tiems should BEGIN to provide some approaches for that fellow's 
questions, I think...



From: <iitpr@...> (Rafi Stern)
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 96 07:04:10 PDT
Subject: SheHeheyanu and Sfirat HaOmer

When we counted the first day of the Omer I was struck by the fact that
we do not make the Bracha of SheHeheyanu. I cannot think of any parallel
case where we do a yearly occurring Mitzva for the first time but do not
say SheHeheyanu. Does anyone have a good reason why we should omit this

Rafi Stern
IITPR - The Israel Institute of Transportation Planning and Research
POB 9180 Tel Aviv 61090 Israel
TEL: 972-3-6873312, FaX: 972-3-6872196
E-mail: <iitpr@...>


From: <david@...> (David Charlap)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 96 13:16:31 EST
Subject: Re: Starbucks Coffee

<MSGraphics@...> (Linda Katz) writes:
>I have been told by very reliable rabbonim that it's fine to drink
>coffee at a Starbucks establishment (paper cup-including no problem of
>maris eyin.) It is a recent development and it makes me too nervous to
>get lattes or steamed drinks if the equipment is also used for steaming
>any of the added syrups, chocolates, etc- and if in that outlet, those
>products have no hechsher. As mentioned- some do, some don't. (The
>steaming wand is at a very high temperature/pressure and is not a
>problem- but the metal cups are presumably washed together...?)

I think the only problem with cappuchino, etc., is the status of the
milk - if you observe Chalav Yisrael.

As one who make cappuchino at home, I know that you should never attempt
to steam anything other than plain milk.  If you try steaming flavorings
or coffee itself, you gum up the machine and ruin the flavor.

Ask your rav to be sure, but I would be very surprised if Starbucks
steams their milk with any flavorings in them.


From: <nre@...> (Nicolas Rebibo)
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 10:23:35 +0200
Subject: Temple Menorah

A story is told by Rouchama Shain in her book "All for the Boss" (a
biography of her father) about a jewish farmer who discovered gold
objects near Jerusalem.  Some of these objects were shown to the Hafets
Chaim who identified them as Temple ustensils but required to hide them
again where they were found because the time has not yet arrived.

The story does not describe the objects.

Chag Pessach Kasher ve Sameach,
Nicolas Rebibo  <rebibo@...>              listowner: judaisme-l@jer1.co.il
Communaute On Line: The French Jewish Network   <col@...>   web:www.col.fr


From: <DaveTrek@...> (David Brotsky)
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 13:05:48 -0400
Subject: Writing On Chol Hamoed

In light of the prohibitions on writing  on chol hamoed, is there a similiar
prohibition on typing on a computer fo nonessential reasons, such as email to
a friend?

David Brotsky
Chag Kosher Vesameyach


End of Volume 23 Issue 61