Volume 25 Number 33
                       Produced: Sun Dec  1 22:14:32 1996

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Ashkenazi menahelim of Sefaradi schools
         [Moshe Freedenberg]
         [Kenneth H. Ryesky]
Davening on the North Pole
         [Avi-Gil Chaitovsky]
Equality for Jews and non-Jews
         [Yeshaya Halevi]
Kashrut & Flavored Charcoal Briquets
         [Joshua D. Males]
Mi Sheberach list
         [Yehuda Poch]
More on Tropen
         [David Herskovic]
Origin of the word 'daven'
         [Paul Shaviv]
Origin of the word daven
         [Arnold Kuzmack]
Outreach for Russian Jews in America
         [Michael J Broyde]
Rosh Chodesh on Motzei Shabbos
         [Rachi Messing]
The Seventh Nation
         [Carl Sherer]
Tircha D'tzibura
         [Elozor Preil]
Using Laptop Computers in Israel
         [Yitzchak Metchik]


From: Moshe Freedenberg <free@...>
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 17:59:08 +0200
Subject: Ashkenazi menahelim of Sefaradi schools

>Does anyone know examples of Ashkenazi menahelim of Sefaradi 
>schools?  Has there been an effect on the chinuch?  
>How have the differences in minhagim been handled?

One of my sons goes to a Sefardi school and his Rebbe is Ashkenazi.  I 
don't think that there is a measurable affect on chinuch, as he is an 
excellent Rebbe.  I think that he tends to hit the boys less than some 
Sefardi rebbeim (I am writing from Israel, where hitting is encouraged by 
rebbeim).  So far as the differences in minhagim, since it is a Sefardi 
school, Sefardi minhagim are taught.  Your biggest concern should be the 
quality of the menahel, not his nusach.


From: <KHRESQ@...> (Kenneth H. Ryesky)
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 12:27:28 -0500
Subject: Cranberries

In Issue 25:27, P. Idstein seems to be under the impression that cranberries
cannot be eaten raw.

That is absolutely incorrect!!!  Fresh (raw) cranberries are frequently
available in fruit & produce stores, and in the fruit & produce section
of the local supermarkets.  They are good for munching upon, and, when
pureed, taste good in freshly-squeezed orange juice.

 -- Kenneth H. Ryesky, Esq.


From: <Genius683@...> (Avi-Gil Chaitovsky)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 10:39:42 -0500
Subject: Davening on the North Pole

A person on the north pole has a problem with Pesach and Matzah.

You are supposed to finish the Afikoman by midnight (Chatzos HaLailah).
This person is sitting in either darkness or light for 6 months
straight.  He has no sense of time the way we do because he only knows
day and night as six month blocks.

I know that there have been posts about this previously and I would like
to know if there are any poskim who have commented on the issue.

Avi-Gil Chaitovsky


From: <CHIHAL@...> (Yeshaya Halevi)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 11:03:01 -0500
Subject: Equality for Jews and non-Jews

Shalom, All:
	Al Silberman (<asilberman@...>), kindly helping me
explore who does and who doesn't have a share in Olam Haba (the World to
Come), notes that I ask <<why is the language used to describe one's
life in Olam Haba "a share?"  Why don't the original sources just say,
"The following types of people won't live in the World to Come", or
maybe "The following types of people won't be in the World to Come?"
... Perhaps the meaning of all this is that those who don't believe or
do certain things lose a portion/share in Olam Haba, but ONLY a portion
of what could be theirs.  The rest -- the other portion/share -- is
theirs, as it says, "All Israel has a share in the World to Come.">>
	He then quotes <mnavon@...> (Mois Navon) who replied << the
Nefesh HaHayim, (Rav Hayim MiVolozhin) states explicitly on the verse
"Kol Yisrael Yesh Lahem Helek LE'olam Haba;" LE'olam Haba NOT BE'olam
haba!  (i.e. "TO" the world to come, NOT "IN" the world to come). Rav
Hayim MiVolozhin explains this grammatical nuance to imply that everyone
has the capacity to earn for themselves a helek, but it is by no means
one's birth right to automatically receive a helek IN the world to
	Reb Al Silberman then notes <<the Margoliyos Hayam in the
beginning of Perek Chelek brings down the Nefesh HaHayim. My
interpretation of it has a different nuance than the one brought down in
the above quote: People by performing Mitzvos create for themselves a
portion to be available to them when they get to Olam Haba. The portion
is created by the performance of the Mitzva. Thus, someone who does not
create his portion in this world will, naturally, not have one available
in the world to come.  That is why it does not say that everyone has a
portion "IN" the world to come. The world to come does not have any of
its own portions. The Mishna says that all Jews create for themselves a
portion to be available to them "Leolam Haba". The categories of people
enumerated, by the nature of their behavior, do not create for
themselves a portion to be available to themselves later.>>
	I propose a melding of all positions here.  After all, how many,
if any, Jews lead such horrid lives that they are devoid of such mitzvot
as honoring their parents or giving tz'daka.  And think of all the
times people do NOT steal or murder or lie, thus performing mitzvot of
omission. Surely this racks up shares of Olam Haba!
	Furthermore, if even a righteous goy who observes a mere seven
commandments given to B'nai Noah merits the World to Come, should not
a decent Jew get SOME portion?
	As for why the text says _Le_-Olam Haba (_to_ the World to Come)
and not _Bi_-Olam Haba (_in_ the WtC), let me ask those who know more
than I: is Mishnaic Hebrew always identical to current Hebrew? Isn't
it possible that using the phrase _Le_-Olam Haba meant the same thing
then as "in the World to Come?"
       Yeshaya Halevi (<Chihal@...>)


From: <jmales@...> (Joshua D. Males)
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 11:15:01 +0200
Subject: Kashrut & Flavored Charcoal Briquets

I just assembled my new Char-Broil gas grill, and I noticed that the
ceramic briquets that came with the grill are flavored.

Is there a kashrut problem with flavored briquets? The package says the
briquets are made with real hardwood to add rich, woodsy flavor to all
foods. There is no listing of ingredients. I will not be grilling for at
least two months, so please delay all beta-testing requests.

Joshua D. Males


From: Yehuda Poch <yehuda@...>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 11:41:25 -0500
Subject: Mi Sheberach list

For those who do not yet know, there is a list for Mi Sheberach's on the
internet.  I moderate it.
To subscribe, either send me a note directly, or send to 

<listproc@...>  with the message

sub bikur <your name>

The list is posted weekly on Thursday mornings.
It consists of the names of cholim for whom tefillos have been requested and
the email addresses of the people who post them so that correspondence
regarding a specific case can be made if necessary.
\  \  \  \   |   /  /  /  /       Yehuda Poch		 __/\__
 \  \  \  \  |  /  /  /  /        Toronto, Ontario		 \  /   \  / 
  \_\_\_\|/_/_/_/         <yehuda@...>		 /_\_/_\  
           _|_                 http://www.interlog.com/~yehuda	     \/


From: David Herskovic <100114.750@...>
Date: 28 Nov 96 11:35:33 EST
Subject: More on Tropen

What is the correct trop for the Kotoynti in this week's sedra. Most
Chumoshim have an azlo geireish and going by the humming of the
congregation that is what most people expect. However, I have found a
few Chumoshim which have a Revi'i. So which is the right one?

And one more question. When is a Minach pronounced on its own with a
sound similar to a Mercho Kefilo and when is it swallowed by the trop
following it as in Minach (Minach) Revi'i and what is the rule? Also,
are you sypposed to lein 'Mahpach Pashto _Zokeif_ Zokeif Kotoin' or is
it 'M P _Minach_ Z K' with the Minach pronounced fully? I have heard it
both ways from different balei koire.

Sorry one more. Is a Kadmo Kotoin on the same word or on two hyphenated
words chanted in the normal way or does it assume a new trop? I have
heard this special trop reffered to as ingerishe mases. And why do some
exaggerate the Mercho that comes before a Tevir?

Thanks and git Shabes

David Herskovic


From: <shaviv@...> (Paul Shaviv)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 16:39:56 -0500
Subject: Origin of the word 'daven'

Liz Muschel asked:
Does anyone know the origin of the word daven?

-- the short answer is: No ! [= I don't think so]

There are several fanciful conjectures, of varying degrees of
implausibility. Some time back I had a High School of kids loooking for the
answer. We couldn't find anything that sounded remotely likely. Maybe
someone out  there has a new theory?
Paul Shaviv
Principal, Bialik High School, Montreal
Fax: +514-483-6391 (school)/ +514-488-6532 (Home)
Tel: +514-481-2736 (school)/ +514-488-8631 (home)

From: Arnold Kuzmack <kuzmack@...>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 00:02:26 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Origin of the word daven

> In v25n27 Liz Muschel asks about the origin of the word "daven". I saw in a
> sefer (don't recall which) that it is a corruption of the Aramaic word
> "de'avuhon" which means "of the Patriarchs," an allusion to the gemara
> (Berachos 26b) which says that the shemona esrei prayers were instituted by
> Avrohom, Yitzchok, and Yaakov. I have also heard that it is a form of an
> early German word related to the English "dawn."

I believe the accepted explanation among scholars of Yiddish is that it
is derived from the Latin 'divinere' (or something similar; I don't know
Latin).  It was brought be Jews in Italy into German speaking territory,
who began speaking German that developed into Yiddish.  The word
continued to be used even though most of the rest of their Latin or Old
Italian vocabulary was lost.  A similar explanation is given for
'bentshn' and 'leyenen'.

I am pretty sure this is referred to in U. Weinreich's textbook "College

Shavua tov y'all.
Arnie Kuzmack


From: Michael J Broyde <relmb@...>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 20:56:36 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Outreach for Russian Jews in America

I am interested in the names and addresses of Jewish organizations that
focus on outreach for Russian Jews in America.
Thank you.
Michael J. Broyde


From: <rachim@...> (Rachi Messing)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 10:48:03 EST
Subject: Rosh Chodesh on Motzei Shabbos

When Rosh Chodesh falls on a motzei shabbos, and you happen to eat
seudat shlishit after it is already night, do you say Retzei or ya'aleh
 The Mishneh B'rurah seems to pasken that we either only say ya'aleh
v'yavou, or maybe we can say both (he says it's not a contradiction b/c
the chiyuvim are coming for different reasons).  The Oruch Hashulchan in
the very end of the siman says that we go after when the meal began and
would therefore only say retzei, directly opposite of the Mishneh
B'rurah? He does say that if you already davened Ma'ariv then you would
definitely say ya'aleh v'yavou, but in a normal situation he would
seemingly argue on the MB, so what's the halachah?

-  Rachi


From: Carl Sherer <sherer@...>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 23:51:34 +0000
Subject: The Seventh Nation

Rafi Stern writes:

> Israel Caspi wrote:
> > B'nai Yisrael were to inherit the portion of 7 nations who occupied
> > Eretz Yisrael.  Why does the Prophet Nehemiah (Chapter 9) -- which is
> > recited every day in our prayers -- mention only six of them?
> I believe that the answer is that the seventh nation ran away.  I seem
> to remember being told that they all got up and left and went to Africa
> where they were rewarded by receiving a very large country.
> I do not have the source for this... maybe somebody else does?

This doesn't quite work.  The six nations mentioned in the pasuk in
Nechemia 9:8, which we say every day in davening, are Cnani, Chiti,
Emori, Prizi, Yevusi and Girgashi.  Yet, according to Rashi in Shmos
33:2 (from the Yerushalmi in Shviis 6:2), the nation that ran away was
Girgashi.  The nation which is missing from our every day davening is
the Chivi.  At least some of the Chivi were the people of Givon, who
deceived Yehoshua and the Elders (see Yehoshua 9 and especially Pasuk 7
which says the Givonim were Chivi).

I have now given a source which says that the Girgashi was the one that
ran away, but I have not found a source yet as to why the pasuk in
Nechemia skips the Chivi.  Anyone else?

-- Carl Sherer

Please daven and learn for a Refuah Shleima for our son,
Baruch Yosef ben Adina Batya among the sick of Israel.  
Thank you very much.

Carl and Adina Sherer


From: <EMPreil@...> (Elozor Preil)
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 02:54:36 -0500
Subject: Tircha D'tzibura

<<  the whole process may take 15 minutes so in the grand scheme of
 things it certainly isn't a tirchaby any means :-) >>

Chazal ( The Rabbis) certainly considered virtually *any* time being
added to the davening as Tircha d'tzibura.  For example, the gemara in
Megilla considers the act of rolling the Torah from one reading to
another to be a tircha if it takes longer than a few seconds (i.e., the
amount of time needed to recite the Targum (Aramaic translation) of one

Kol tuv,
Elozor Preil


From: <emetchik@...> (Yitzchak Metchik)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 21:56:07 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Using Laptop Computers in Israel

If any of your subscribers have information concerning the following 
question, I would much appreciate it: I am planning to buy a laptop 
computer in a month or so (brand as yet unknown) and hope to take it to 
use for two months next summer in Israel. Do I need a special adaptor for 
the Israeli current, and if so, will this same adaptor work to recharge 
the battery? Will I need any special cables to hook the laptop up to a 
printer or to connect the modem to a telephone? Is there such a 
thing as a dual voltage laptop? Finally, does anyone have 
any ideas how to dial up my college Internet account inexpensively from 
Israel? Alternatively, how would I find an inexpensive, short-term 
Internet provider in Jerusalem? Thanks for your help. Chag Orim Sameach! 
Yitzchak Metchik, <emetchik@...>

DR. ERIC METCHIK                 <EMETCHIK@...>
352 LAFAYETTE ST.                (508)-741-6460;
SALEM, MA 01970                        741-6360


End of Volume 25 Issue 33