Volume 25 Number 57
                      Produced: Fri Dec 27 11:22:41 1996

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Cancer Patient
         [Seth Magot]
Chevra Kadisha (v25n52)
         [Stephen Phillips]
Geneological Chart of the People in Tanach (2)
         [Carl Sherer, Daniel Eidensohn]
Genology  Chart in Tanach
         [Menashe Elyashiv]
Handicap-Accessible Mikvaot
         [Nina S Butler]
Kohanim Flying to Eretz Yisrael
         [Carl Sherer]
Old Paintings
         [Jeanette Friedman]
Orthodox and Obsessive Behaviour
         [Eliezer Finkelman]
Wheel Chair Accessable Mikvaot
         [Hadassah Goodman]


From: <magot@...> (Seth Magot)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 14:51:31 -0500 (EST)
Subject: RE: Cancer Patient

	I read with some interest the posting of Russell Jay Hendel
concerning the women with cancer.  The issue concerns two issues
halachah, and compassion.  My feeling about those who will not eat with
her - a plague on their heads, for they are making the final months of
this person's life miserable.  Unless you have lived with a person who
has terminal cancer you are not qualified to sit in judgement.  I have
been there three times (the third time is presently).  It is a
debilitating disease that robs a person of their dignity, and leaves
them at best with dispair.  To feel your strength daily being taken
away.  To feel your mind being equally effected/affected, and then to
have your friends - who supposidly practice compassion and charity to
turn their backs on you - that is unforgivable.  Halachah was never
intended to exclude people or to ostrisize them, it was rather meant to
unite people, it was created - and is continually being reinterpreted
[as the Talmud recommends] - to best have us follow the Torah and the
words of HaShem.  If we followed Torah exactly - without having halachah
to 'save' us - we would simply spend Shabbat in our houses - alone.

Seth Magot


From: <stephenp@...> (Stephen Phillips)
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 96 13:56 GMT0
Subject: Re: Chevra Kadisha (v25n52)

In-Reply-To: <199612250340.WAA10138@...>
> From: Andrea Penkower Rosen <apr@...>

> l.  We have been told that the danger of infection from hepatitis is
> much greater than the danger of infection from the AIDS virus.  Most
> of our members have already been vaccinated for hapatitis but not all.
> Do you advise or require all your members to take the hepatitis
> vaccination?

As a member of a voluntary Chevra Kadisha in London, our Shul being part
of the United Synagogue, we have been advised by Dayan Chanoch Ehrentrau
(Rosh Beis Din in London) to be vaccinated against Hepatitis B. I have
had the vaccination and I am constantly urging my fellow Chevra members
to have it as well.

>      BTW, are you aware that after the first 3 initial injections, it is
> necessary to receive a booster injection?

I had the test after the 3 injections and (according to my Doctor) it
wasn't clear as to whether I had been sufficiently immunised, so I had
the booster.

> 2.  In order to combat infection, we have been advised to use bleach.
> Do you wash the tahara table with a bleach solution before and after
> each tahara?  Do you use bleach in the tisha kavim?

I have not heard of this being done, and we certainly don't do it.

> If you do use bleach, what do you do to improve air circulation within
> the tahara room so the chevra members dont suffocate?

We are very fortunate in North West London in that the United Synagogue 
Burial Society built new Tahara premises at one of the main cemeteries 
(Bushey) with all the latest "Mod. Cons." which includes extractor fans in 
the Tahara rooms.

> 3.  In order to combat infection, we have been advised to wear double
> gloves, gowns, head coverings, shoe coverings, goggles and masks over
> the mouth and nose.  Do you follow all of these protections?

We only use gloves. I know of other Chevra Kadishas that use plastic 
throwaway gowns, but I tried them once and they made me Schwitz!

> Have you considered wearing the masks and goggles, only when you have
> specifically been warned that there is a danger of infection?

If there were any danger of infection, due to the cause of death, then
the US Burial Society would actually forbid us from performing a
Tahara. This actually happened when a friend of mine died as a result of
a blood infection he had had since a child. We were not allowed to
perform the Tahara. I think that any possible danger to the health of
the living overrides the question of Kovod HaMeis [respect for the

Stephen Phillips.


From: Carl Sherer <sherer@...>
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 01:35:34 +0000
Subject: Geneological Chart of the People in Tanach

Tirzah Houminer wrote:

> At a recent study group of which I a member a question arose
> pertaining to the progeny of Moshe Rabaynu, Aside from the mention
> in the torah of his two sons Gershon and Eliezer, we could find no
> other children or grandchildren (neither in the Torah nor in Divray
> Hayamim.).

This isn't quite correct.  If you look at Shoftim 18:30, you will see 
that the tribe of Dan established the idol of Micha, and its Cohen 
was "Yehonasan ben Gershom ben Menashe" and his children.  If you 
look at the "nun" in Menashe it is hanging in the air.  Many of the 
commentaries in Shoftim bring a Medrash that the nun was hanging 
because it really did not belong there, and that it was placed there 
so as not to embarass Moshe Rabbeinu, since Yehonasan was his 
grandson.  This Medrash is also brought down in Bava Basra 109b-110a 
and in the Yerushalmi in Brachos 9:2.

[This medrish also mentioned by Barry Best <bbest@...>. Mod]

-- Carl Sherer

Please daven and learn for a Refuah Shleima for our son,
Baruch Yosef ben Adina Batya among the sick of Israel.  
Thank you very much.

Carl and Adina Sherer

From: Daniel Eidensohn <yadmoshe@...>
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 11:42:49 -0800
Subject: Geneological Chart of the People in Tanach

>From: Tirzah Houminer <tirzah@...>
>While looking through Divray Hayamim we came across occasional wives,
>and second wives, and once in a while a daughter, but usually only sons,
>and onccasionally a name that repeated itself several generations after
>its first mention. This led us to wonder if anyone had eveprepared a
>geneological chart, computer generated or otherwise of the people in the

The clearest exposition using detailed charts in various colors and
based on traditional sources is "The Sequence of Events in the Old
Testament" by Eliezer Shulman. It is also available in Hebrew. Published
by the Israeli Ministry of Defense.


From: Menashe Elyashiv <elyashm@...>
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 19:56:20 +0200 (WET)
Subject: Genology  Chart in Tanach

I would suggest E. Shulman"s Seder Hakorot Betanach for some charts.
You can find it universities libraries and other places.
By the, Hazal say that Moshe did have a grandson - see Judges ch.18 v.30
and Rashi there.
Menashe Elyashiv  Bar Ilan U. Lib of Jew. Studies


From: Nina S Butler <nbutler+@pitt.edu>
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 16:50:10 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Handicap-Accessible Mikvaot

You're not the only one looking though past postings trying to catch up!
I noticed several postings about handicapped-accessible mikvaot.  I am
exceptionally proud to announce that our city has a
handicapped-accessible mikva.  We are equipped with special devices for
use of tubs or showers, as well as a specially designed lift that can
lower a woman into the mikva in a gentle, sensitive, and halachically
acceptable way.

Most exceptional, though, is that we're a relatively small city, and our
community allocated the additional funding for these changes as we
refurbished our mikva... without any specific community member in mind.
As far as I know, no one has needed to make use of this equipment, now
over a year later, but it is nice to know that a woman with a physical
handicap has another choice of cities (in the US) besides New York.

 I encourage all readers to take a critical look at your city's
facilities: Is your shul handicapped-accessible?  Can physically
challenged children attend your day schools, work in your Jewish
Community Center or Jewish Federation building?  Can they serve on
committees for Jewish functions (with meetings in places that are
accessible?)  A blind member of our community pointed out that it was
nice that our new Jewish Federation building and JCC have braille room
labels... but they're at different spots around each doorway (sometimes
right, sometimes left, and varying heights), and often misspelled.  She
offered to go through with a building manager and suggest corrections.

So, WHAT city is it that has a handicapped accessible mikva, outside of
the New York area?  The Jerusalem of Southwestern Pennsylvania:
PITTSBURGH!  Feel free to contact us for info on how to make YOUR mikva

Nina Butler
Nina & Danny Butler Mikey, Gavri, Uri, Shoshana and JJ 5710 Bartlett Street
Pittsburgh, PA 15217 (412) 421-1884 FAX:  (412) 521-0287


From: Carl Sherer <sherer@...>
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 00:00:05 +0000
Subject: Kohanim Flying to Eretz Yisrael

At the end of the Dial a Daf on Chulin 125, the Maggid Shiur, Rabbi Zev
Cohen, talked a bit about the laws of Kohanim flying on an airplane on
which a dead person R"L is being transported, a significant problem for
Kohanim flying to Eretz Yisrael.  (For the record he cited Rav Moshe
zt"l's tshuva in Iggros Moshe YD 2:164 saying that it's assur, but
that's not my question).

Rabbi Cohen cited some statistics which were quite surprising to me.  He
said that in the summer appproximately 65% of El Al flights have dead
bodies on them, and in the winter when there are fewer flights that
percentage rises to over 80%! But, this shiur was recorded seven and a
half years ago, during the last Daf Yomi cycle, and therefore things may
have changed since then.

My questions:

1. Does anyone out there have up to date information as to how often
this is a problem on El Al?

2. Is there any way to find out this information before your flight
(Rabbi Cohen said that, at least at the time, El Al was reluctant to
give out this information because of security considerations)?

3. Does anyone know if this is a problem on other airlines? At the time,
Rabbi Cohen indicated that it was not.  If it is a problem on other
airlines, on what other airlines and how frequently? Do the other
airlines tell you if there is a dead body on the flight?

4. Is this ever a problem coming back from Eretz Yisrael or on flights
elsewhere (e.g. within the US or Europe)? Can one rely on rov (majority)
in those cases or must one check?

Please note that I am *not* a Cohen so I am asking these questions
partly out of intellectual curiousity ("Torah hi ul'lamda ani tzarich" -
it is Torah and I must learn it), and partly because I am active in an
aliya list on the net, and if this is a serious problem, I think it
would be appropriate to warn people about it.

I should add that a number of people on the aliya list have brought pets
with them.  Supposedly El Al does not allow pets to travel in the cargo
hold if there is a body there (does anyone have a source for that since
it is supposedly on Halachic grounds?), yet I have heard very few
instances of people's pets being bumped from the flight.  If the
statistics I cite at the beginning of this post are still correct, it
seems to me that the pets should be getting bumped more frequently.

-- Carl Sherer

Please daven and learn for a Refuah Shleima for our son,
Baruch Yosef ben Adina Batya among the sick of Israel.  
Thank you very much.

Carl and Adina Sherer


From: <FriedmanJ@...> (Jeanette Friedman)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 10:00:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Old Paintings

Find out who owned the house before you did. Then go to your library and
look up Theime Becker or other artist directories to find the name of
your artists. I think his name sound familiar to me.


From: <Finkelmans@...> (Eliezer Finkelman)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 22:24:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Orthodox and Obsessive Behaviour

In a message dated 96-12-22 08:01:19 EST, George Max Saiger writes:

>As to "Freudians" running around charging the frum as obsessive--most
>could care less.  I suspect that as Pogo so well put it, the problem is
>US.  We each need to have the courage to know whether our own observance
>is a free acceptance of ol mitzvot--or born of a compulsive rigidity we
>dare not challenge.  Setting up "Freudians" as a straw man allows us to
>duck that task.

This recalls for me an observation which I heard in the name of Rabbi
Soloveitchik (may the memory of the righteous serve as a blessing), that
whenever the Midrash ascribes a question to the nations of the world, or
the satan, or to scoffers, the question remains "our" question.


Eliezer Finkelman


From: Hadassah Goodman <GOODMAN@...>
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 11:39:46 CST
Subject: Wheel Chair Accessable Mikvaot

    In response to the question of wheel chair accessability at 
Mikvaot: Tha main community Mikva in Chicago, at 3110 W. Touhy, 773-
274-7425, has wheel chair accsssability, is equiped with a Hoyer 
lift, and an added safety railing in a designated mikva.
    Additionally, Rivkah Slonim's new book, Total Immersion (Jason 
Aronson Inc., 1996), has a listing of Mikvaot with wheel chair 
accessability in CA, NY, NJ, PA. The book also has an important first-
person narrative about physical accessability to Mikva. We have not 
taken down all of the barriers to the observance of Yiddishkeit 
generally, but our Nashim Tzidkaniot always continue to find ways to 
reduce those barriers.
Hadassah Goodman at <goodman@...>


End of Volume 25 Issue 57