Volume 25 Number 92
                      Produced: Thu Jan 30 23:12:16 1997

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Besamim Holders
         [Avi Chaitovsky]
Caculating Weekly Parsha
         [Yaakov Glick]
Calendar Software
         [Rafi Stern]
         [Elozor Preil]
Found it! (was:Tanach with trope)
         [Carolyn Lanzkron]
Illness and Shidduchim
         [T. Cazaubon]
Kohanim and Flights to Israel
         [Yitzchak Kasdan]
Non Kosher Pets
         [Les & Shayne Train]
Opening Plastic Bottle Caps on Shabbos (2)
         [Marc Joseph, Aryeh A. Frimer]
Owning Pet Rabbits
         [Zev Sero]
Pets on Shabbath
         [Lon Eisenberg]
Shale Sheedes
         [Steve White]
Shale sheedes
         [Les & Shayne Train]
Status of person in process of Converting
         [Gershon Dubin]
Yeser = Impetuousness in Yeser Tov and Ra
         [Russell Hendel]


From: <Genius683@...> (Avi Chaitovsky)
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 19:39:31 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Besamim Holders

Does anyone know the reason we use windmills and violins to hold besamim?
I am curious as to where and when this started.

Avi Chaitovsky    <Genius683@...>


From: <yakov@...> (Yaakov Glick)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 97 08:12:51 PST
Subject: Caculating Weekly Parsha 

 In reply to Rafi Stern's request for a source for the rules determining
the weekly Parsha. I recently came across an excellent book "Sha'arim
La'Luach Ha'Ivri" by Rav Sar-Shalom of Netanya. The book seems to be a
complete guide, with clear step by step instructions and tables for
calculating all aspects of the Hebrew and Cristian calendars as well as
the relations between the two. It also has a full chapter on the Parsha.
 Although I am no expert, I had no problem calculating the future
Parshas for dates 10 years ahead.
 The book can be obtained from the author himself for 80 NIS. His phone
number is 09-8824738.

I am also interested in the programs by Avraham Weiss, and Rafi Stern if
they are being distributed.

Yaakov Glick


From: Rafi Stern <rafistern@...>
Date: 26 Jan 1997 15:00:56 -0000
Subject: Calendar Software

For all those who have expressed an interest and those who have not, I
have posted my calendar calculating programs on ftp. There are two
programs, both written for DOS; the first interactively calculates
hebrew dates from solar dates and the second is designed to be added to
your autoexec.bat and gives the current day and date.

The ftp is:

I will leave the files on the ftp for a couple of weeks before I delete them. 

Rafi Stern
Tel:   (H)972-2-9919162  (W)972-2-6873312 
Email: <rafistern@...>             


From: <EMPreil@...> (Elozor Preil)
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 10:32:13 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Converts

>Apropos of all this, what's the status of someone between mila and
> tevila?

I recall hearing an interesting distinction on one of Rabbi Frand's
early tapes (#28, I believe) wherein he cites an opinion that milah
(circumcision) removes from the non-Jew the status of non-Jew, whereas
tevilah (immersion in mikvah) completes his transformation into a
Yisrael (full Jew).  The "nafka mina" (practical difference) might
relate to the statement in the gemara that a non-Jew ("nochri") who
observes Shabbos is liable to the death penalty.
 This would not apply to a convert-in-process who has had his milah
(thus removing him from the status of "nochri") but has not yet gone to
the mikvah - e.g., if he had his bris on Friday and could not go to the
mikvah before Shabbos due to his bandaged wound.

Kol tuv, 


From: Carolyn Lanzkron <CLKL@...>
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 97 12:13:04 UT
Subject: Found it! (was:Tanach with trope)


Thanks for all of your replies!  I found an electronic version of Tanach
with the cantillation marks and nikkud: Davka had it: The CD ROM Bible
includes the complete Tanach with trop.  Selections of text can be
copied and pasted to a word processor.

This mailing list is the greatest thing since sliced bread.  I usually
just "lurk", finding it incredibly valuable and entertaining.  The
half-dozen times I've asked a question (over the last few years) I've
received thoughtful, prompt and unique responses.  Thanks to everyone
who really takes the time to respond to this list.  What a joy to have
lashon-hara free forum, too!



From: T. Cazaubon <tarac@...>
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:22:42 -0800
Subject: Illness and Shidduchim

Carl Sherer writes:

"We had a Shabbos guest this week who has made a video for an
organization which helps people to obtain medical care.  She told us
that she was asked by the organization's founder (a *very* prominent
Rav) to update the video, but of the hundreds of families that this
organization has helped only two are willing to participate in the
video.  The reason (to us at least) is obvious - fear of ruining
shidduchim in the future."

I think this is so sad, that people have to suffer in secret so that
their future spouse should not know that they had been ill in the past.
What does this say about our community that judgements are made on this
basis?  I find this a shame.

T. Cazaubon


From: <IKasdan189@...> (Yitzchak Kasdan)
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:39:17 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Kohanim and Flights to Israel

It is my understanding that Tower Air *never* ships bodies.
Consequently, Kohanim may fly Tower withiut confronting the problem they
may have on El Al.


From: Les & Shayne Train <ltrain@...>
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 21:50:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Non Kosher Pets

 It is well documented that jews kept dogs around in Europe - especially
on farms. The issue that comes up on shabbos is tsaar baalei chaim -
neglect and harm to the animal. Any veterinarian will tell you that
every dog has to be walked at least 1/2 hour per day - preferably an
hour. Therefore to keep it penned up all of shabbos would constitute
 This also answers the question of keeping a non-kosher animal as a pet
(although you might argue that they served a guard function, or
something similar). Bediavad - post facto - if you try to give the pet
up after you've already bought it, it will most likely be
destroyed. Tsaar baalei chaim and bal tashkhis may come into play here.
Les Train


From: Marc Joseph <mjoseph@...>
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 16:33:02 -0500
Subject: Re: Opening Plastic Bottle Caps on Shabbos

>From: <Jsph26@...> (Yussie Englander)
>My chavrusah and I were discussing hilchos shabbos, specifically opening
>bottles. He asked me to put out a feeler. Has anyone heard of a psak by Rabbi
>Shlomo Zalman Aurbach (my apologies for any misspelled name) regarding the
>opening of PLASTIC bottle caps on shabbos? Thanks for any information.

According to the weekly halacha discussion sheet for Parshas Beshalach
by Rabbi D. Neustadt that is distributed in my area, only metal caps are
prohibited to be opened on Shabbos per Rav Auerbach in Tikunim U'milluim
pg. 14 and in Me'or HaShabbos, pg. 480. (I am only quoting the sheet and
am not open for discussion on the matter.)

The archives for this sheet, which is also available by e-mail
subscription is at http://www.torah.org. I would highly recommend
everyone interested in halacha to subscribe to it.


From: Aryeh A. Frimer <frimea@...>
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 17:10:43 -0800
Subject: Re: Opening Plastic Bottle Caps on Shabbos

Yussie Enlander writes:
> My chavrusah and I were discussing hilchos shabbos, specifically opening
> bottles. He asked me to put out a feeler. Has anyone heard of a psak by Rabbi
> Shlomo Zalman Aurbach (my apologies for any misspelled name) regarding the
> opening of PLASTIC bottle caps on shabbos? Thanks for any information.

There is a third volume of Shmirat Shabbat Kehilkhato out which contains
among other things additions to the previous two volumes. Therein Rav
Neuvirt quotes Rav Auerbach as permitting the opening of plastic caps
but not metal ones. The reason has to do with technological differences
as to how the caps are made. In the case of the plastic caps, the caps
are preformed and forced on the bottles. Hence they exist as caps before
opening. In the case of the metal caps, they are formed on the bottle
and only become caps upon opening.


From: Zev Sero <zsero@...>
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 19:03:32 -0800
Subject: Re: Owning Pet Rabbits

Bonnie Weinberg <schwara@...> wrote:

> We have a pet rabbit and someone told me recently that you are not
> allowed to own a non kosher pet. Does anyone have a sorce for this?

It is forbidden to own a pig.  Some people may, as a `fence around
the torah', also avoid owning guinea pigs, since they may be confused
with ordinary swine.  But a guinea pig is a kind of rabbit, and so the
most careful `baalei nefesh' would refrain from owning rabbits as well.
However, according to a piece in the NY Times a few months ago, the
most recent genetic research seems to show that guinea pigs are not,
in fact, related to rabbits.  If this should be borne out by further
research, it may be time to reevaluate this halacha. 

>  By the way our rabbit chewed up my husband's Tzizit while hanging 
> to dry on the clothes line!

Next time you'll know not to hang it from the clothes line - it
seems to me that there's a small issue of tzaar baalei chayim 
involved.  Perhaps you should dry it in the microwave instead.

PS:  :-)

Zev Sero		Don't blame me, I voted for Harry Browne


From: Lon Eisenberg <eisenbrg@...>
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 07:22:50 +0000
Subject: Pets on Shabbath

What I don't understand about a pet's being muqza (set asided) is that
if I decide before Shabbath that I want to play with my pet during
Shabbath, why is that different from deciding before Shabbath that I
want to use a specific stone as a paper weight (which prevents that
stone from being muqza).

Lon Eisenberg   Motorola Israel, Ltd.  Phone:+972 3 5658422 Fax:+972 3 5658345


From: <StevenJ81@...> (Steve White)
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 10:05:44 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Shale Sheedes

In #87, Chaim Wasserman (<Chaimwass@...>) writes:
>  In mj 25;84 Les Train writes about << Shale Sheedes >>
>  Anyone around who has the time to make some insightful morphological
>  comments concerning the phrase? In which dictionary can I find it
>  listed?

This brings together several recent MJ strings.  (;-)

First of all, the phrase is a pronunciation-corrupted rendering of
"Shalosh Seudos," the third meal at the end of Shabbat.  Typically, we
accent the first syllable of "shalosh" (based on Yiddish pronunciation,
not Hebrew), hence the "e" of "Shale" (more a neutral, unaccented vowel;
a schwa, in grammatical terms).  Then we normally blur the concluding
shin of "Shalosh" with the initial samekh of "Seudos."  The "sh" is
first and tends to dominate the "s," but since the word "Seudos" needs
an initial consonant, we hear the "sh" along with the word that follows,
instead of the word that precedes.
 Hence, "Shale Sheedes," instead of "Shalesh Seedes."

Second, the "ee" is an East-European/Yiddish pronunciation of the "u"
vowel of "Seudos" (or the shva na plus the "u").  This has been covered
recently, where there is some argument whether diphthongs ending in "ee"
(such as pronouncing "o" as "oi") are corrupt, or simply reflect a
common East-European diphthonging pattern which is different from that
in English (which tends to make "o" into "o-oo").

Last, the use of "Shalosh Seudos," "Three Meals," instead of "Seuda
Shlishis," "Third Meal," stems from the concept that the first two meals
of Shabbat (evening, morning) are equivalent to (if nicer than) the
meals on other days, in that they are eaten at least in part in the
normal course of hunger.  The third meal is eaten "only" for the mitzva;
hence, its name reflects the honor that the entire mitzva of "three
meals" is only fulfilled when the last, "unnecessary" meal is eaten.

I think that Shalosh Seudos is a common name in Ashkenazi communities,
but not so much in Sefardi ones (even converting "Seudos" to "Seudot").
I wonder if this is because this meal on the short winter afternoons in
Eastern Europe was truly unnecessary, while this meal on the more
uniform-length afternoons of the Mediterranean isn't really
"unnecessary" most of the time.  Hence, "Seuda Shlishit," just the third
of the three meals we eat on Shabbat.  Any takers?

Steven White

From: Les & Shayne Train <ltrain@...>
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 21:37:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Shale sheedes

Shaleh sheedes was the way everyone pronounced what it now known as
shalosh seudot (when I was a kid). When I later heard the term shalosh
seudot I didn't know what they were talking about. The former is a yiddish
term. Git shabbes in zay gezint.
Les Train


From: <gershon.dubin@...> (Gershon Dubin)
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 09:42:40 PST
Subject: Re: Status of person in process of Converting

>Apropos of all this, what's the status of someone between mila and
	There was a major controversy about this in Jerusalem about 100
years ago.  The most important question there was not those you asked,
but what the person's status was on the intervening Shabbos: a nonjew
who is not permitted to observe Shabbos, or a Jew who is required to?


From: <rhendel@...> (Russell Hendel)
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 21:29:23 -0500
Subject: Yeser = Impetuousness in Yeser Tov and Ra

I would like to thank Micha Berger [V25#83] for his support of my
posting that Yeser Ra = Impetuousness, with some excellent sources from
the Moosar movement.  I also concur that (if done properly!) a renewed
Moosar movement could significantly help our business ethics. In this
posting however I would like to explain the Yeser in Yeser Tov vs Yeser

The Radack, in the Book of Roots(Sharashim)states that Yeser is used
both for
      >> the passions of people and their habitual thoughts (Raayonotauv) >>
He then goes on to give examples from the Bible for both yeser tov and ra.

Let us analyze the difference between "passions" and "habits" with
respect to impetuousness. By way of example a sexual passion is inborn:
a person seeing a sexual cue might "impetuously" respond with an
improper remark or act. This is the Yeser Ra--impetuousness in inborn

But (to use Micha's term) FFH, frum from habit, is NOT inborn but rather
learned.  Thus if e.g. I spontaneously say "praise be He,praise be his
name" (baruch ho oovaruch shmo) when hearing a blessing then it is my
Yeser Tov acting--impetuousness (or spontaneity) in habit.

Having carefully defined the terms we can now analyze the Jewish
position: "You should conquer your Yeser Ra" does not mean "you should
destory your passions" but rather "you should destroy the
'impetuousness' of your passions" Similarly "You should develop your
Yeser Tov" does not mean that a terminal goal is to be FFH but rather it
means that you should "first" develop spontaneous good habits which
"afterwards" you will invest with Cavannah and meaning.

Russell Jay Hendel, Phd, ASA, rhendel @ mcs drexel edu


End of Volume 25 Issue 92