Volume 28 Number 61
                 Produced: Tue Mar  2 19:51:00 US/Eastern 1999

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Ayin Hara (5)
         [Dov Ettner, Ahron Wolf, Daniel Katsman, Eliyahu Teitz, Joel
Ayin Hara - Immunity of Fish
         [Daniel Katsman]
Halachick Noon
         [Steven White]
Making Kiddush on Friday Night between 6 and 7
         [Rachamim Pauli]
Names - Rivkah
         [Dani & Yolande Kerbel]
Ordering coffee from non-kosher (treif) establishments (2)
         [Rachamim & Henya Pauli, Jeremy Nussbaum]
Superstitous Origins
         [Richard Wolpoe]
The name Lisa
         [Ezriel Krumbein]
The Third Meal on Shabbat
         [Zusha Frumin]


From: Dov Ettner <dovle@...>
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 10:37:43 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Re: Ayin Hara


Many years ago, at Rav Simcha Kook's "Seuda Shlilishite" shuir at the
rabinoot in Rehovot. A guest speaker Rabbi M. Grauer gave an interesting
talk on sources for Ain Hora. I remember him saying that the basic
reason for this happening was for someone to be jealous of his fellow

Dov Ettner

From: Ahron Wolf <awolf@...>
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:04:25 -0500
Subject: Ayin Hara

    It seems that there were many superstitions that our sages in the
Talmud did not desire to fight against. Perhaps because they didn't
consider it possible to eradicate. One example can be found in the last
chapter of Gemara Pesachim. The Gemara goes at length to explain how one
can drink the 4 cups of wine by the seder and not have a problem of
'pairs'. Apparently there was a common superstition that drinking cups
of wine in multiples of two would cause an evil spell. The Meiri
explains over there that the sages were afraid that if they didn't find
away to get around this superstition no one would drink the 4 cups, not
that the sages themselves believed in this. The same could be true about
Ain Hara.

    Perhaps the superstition of Ayin Hara has a good element to it in
that it prevents people from showing of there wealth and fortune. Lack
of modesty was always deplored by the sages. The sages might have been
concerned that if they abolish this belief they would cause more harm
than if they just leave it. Maybe that is why some sages even find
possible support for this belief in the Torah out of fear that the
demise of this superstition might cause more harm than people believing
in it.

From: Daniel Katsman <hannah.k@...>
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 23:05:38 +0000
Subject: Ayin Hara

In general I don't worry much about the ayin hara as a malevolent force
trying to bring me misfortune.  However, the practice of prefacing
certain remarks with "beli ayin hara" seems to be a matter of not
wanting to boast about what you have, even when you are "forced" into
talking about it.  In this sense the ayin hara becomes God's way of
looking at what He has given you very carefully in order to see whether
you really deserve it.  It is not a good idea to draw God's attention in
this way, so therefore one should avoid ostentation.

From: Eliyahu Teitz <EDTeitz@...>
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 09:16:37 EST
Subject: Re: Ayin Hara

Many people have written the following example:

<< For example, we do not call up a father and son or two brothers
 consecutively to an Aliya, because an observer might feel jealous since
 he has not gotten an Aliya while two individuals from the same family
 have gotten Aliyos. >>

And yet, we allow a man and his grandson to be called, as well as
brothers-in- law.  And how about a simcha in shul when many members of
the same family get aliyos, and stagger them to avoid direct generations
getting consecutive aliyos?


From: Joel Rich <Joelirich@...>
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 08:34:59 EST
Subject: Re: Ayin Hara

<<  When a person singles out another individual for observation, with
 perhaps (even mild) jealous emotional overtones, it arouses in Heaven as
 well, a speculation of the individual being observed, in the context of
 why he is more deserving than the fellow who is observing him. This
 could lead to a prosecution of the observed individual with the
 resulting Heavenly verdict that he is not so deserving of his good
 fortune and status in life, and something bad might be decreed upon him. >>

Which implies that without this help, hashem wouldn't have noticed the
ayin 'haraer'?  Perhaps a simpler explanation is that ayin hara is what
happens when one begins to believe their press releases or the overblown
compliments of others rather than realizing that we each, no matter how
accomplished, have what to work on and can't rest on our
laurels. Similarly envious glances can cause us to forget about working
on ourselves rather than worrying about what someone else has

Kol Tuv,
Joel Rich


From: Daniel Katsman <hannah.k@...>
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 21:46:50 +0000
Subject: Ayin Hara - Immunity of Fish

YU graduates may appreciate this:

Regarding the ayin hara as not affecting fish -- In 1983 Rav Aharon Kahn
told us about how Rav Gorelick once came to him all excited because he
had suddenly realized why fish are immune to the ayin hara.  It is, said
Rav Gorelick, because of the refraction of light by water: When the ayin
hara sees the fish and aims its attack, the fish is not really where it
appears to be!

This position makes the implicit assumption that the action of the ayin
hara is not "optical"; i.e. it does not act by directing some kind of
"laser beam" at its target.  If this were so, the beam would itself be
refracted by the water directly back to the fish.

Daniel Katsman


From: Steven White <StevenJ81@...>
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:48:01 EST
Subject: Re: Halachick Noon

In #52, Alex Heppenheimer writes:

> It's not the (arbitrarily determined) local time that matters for
>  purposes of Kiddush; what matters is local _solar_ time. In other words,
>  "noon" for this purpose (and, according to R' Moshe Feinstein zt"l, for
>  other halachic purposes as well) is when the sun crosses the local
>  meridian. In New York City, this is at 11:56 on the clock (12:56 when
>  Daylight Savings Time is in effect); in Atlanta, where I live, it's
>  12:38 (or 1:38); etc.  [formula follows]

Caution:  local noon at a given location actually varies over the course of
the year by several minutes.  This is diagrammed on many globes with a large
figure-8 called an analemma.  If you are going to be makpid on something like
this, you better make sure you contact a knowledgeable LOR.  Better yet,
concentrate on being makpid about "v'ahavta l'reacha kamocha" first.  (;-)

Steven White


From: Rachamim Pauli <phenya@...>
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 16:41:42 +0200
Subject: Re: Making Kiddush on Friday Night between 6 and 7

As a former professional Astronomer and now just an Amateur I would
Like to add my two cents on the subject.
> From: Alexander Heppenheimer <Alexander_Heppenheimer@...>
> Steve Albert <SAlbert@...> wrote:
> >Does anyone know the answer
> >to this related question: Why does our local time matter?  Specifically,
> >does one planet rule over the entire world for an hour, or does each
> >rule over 1/24 rotating across the planet?  
> It's not the (arbitrarily determined) local time that matters for
> purposes of Kiddush; what matters is local _solar_ time. In other words,
> "noon" for this purpose (and, according to R' Moshe Feinstein zt"l, for
> other halachic purposes as well) is when the sun crosses the local
> meridian. In New York City, this is at 11:56 on the clock (12:56 when
> Daylight Savings Time is in effect); in Atlanta, where I live, it's
> 12:38 (or 1:38); etc.

Let us go back to the orginal source for not making Kiddush during the
first Hebrew hour after sunset. That is the fact per Jewish Astrology
(see Tractate Shabbos or the book "12 Mazelot") the planet Mars in
dominant. The hour is measured from sunset to sunrise and divided by
12. Thus in the winter time in Northern Canada, England, Sweden etc. the
"hour" would be up to 75 minutes or longer and close to the equator
closer to 60 minutes year round. In Israel we have a variance from
approximately 14/12 in the winter time to approximately 10/12 in the
summer. During this "hour" it is customary not to make kiddush.  By
having your local sunrise sunset tables, you can calculate how long you
have to wait before making Kiddush..

With blessings,
Richard (Rachamim) Pauli


From: Dani & Yolande Kerbel <d&<y@...>
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 21:57:51 +0000
Subject: Re: Names - Rivkah

I find the discussion re Hebrew names interesting.
I recently told a group of kids about the power of Hebrew names and we
discusssed the meanings of their hebrew names.
I was stumped regarding the name 'Rivkah', of course I know who she was
but what is the literal meaning of the name?
I found that the route ravak denotes'fattening' as in livestock.
Any ideas?

Dani & Yolande Kerbel


From: Rachamim & Henya Pauli <phenya@...>
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 16:20:10 +0200
Subject: Re: Ordering coffee from non-kosher (treif) establishments

> From: Joe Harlin <joeharlin@...>
> Basically, why should one be allowed to drink coffee from such
> establishments?
> Even if we assume the coffee is kosher, the utensils were definitely
> washed with hot non-kosher ingredients.
> On what do such individuals rely to drink coffee in such establishments?

I assume that the coffee is poured into paper hot cups with plastic
spoons and sweetners could have the OU. I once was driving along US 5 in
Washington State and say big 60 cup hot water heaters with Tetley Tea or
Taster's Choice plastic spoons and one time cups, and either sugar or
sweetner. I found nothing wrong with the Kashrut but the coffee was
sponcered by the local parish. Any ideas about this?

Be well,
Richard (Rachamim) Pauli

From: Jeremy Nussbaum <jeremy@...>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:44:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Ordering coffee from non-kosher (treif) establishments

> Even if we assume the coffee is kosher, the utensils were definitely
> washed with hot non-kosher ingredients.

I'm not aware that a water/dish soap mixture is anything but "notein
ta'am lifgam" - imparting a taste that is unpleasant, and hence does not
render things non kosher.  As an extension, I'm not aware that dish
soap/detergent actually requires a hechsher, inasmuch as it is inedible.

Jeremy Nussbaum (<jeremy@...>)


From: Richard Wolpoe <richard_wolpoe@...>
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:59:22 -0500
Subject: Superstitous Origins

I suspect a strong historical trend wherein prgamatic ideas evolve (devolve?) 
into mystical notions.

1) Ayin Horo.
It probably starts out as a form of stinginess, envy, jealousy and becaomes a 
mystical force for evil.

2)  Nittel
 The prohibin of learning on the Natal Night of JC probably had to do
with the real danger of marauding anti-Semites.  Later explanations and
droshos probably evovled to explain the practice as wel las to give
Nittel some acronymic meaning.

3) Long Hair for Young Boys
Why the Ayon Horo on boys and not girls?
 My best guess is that new-born Jewish Boys were resistered and the Czar
woud recruit them 12 years later into the army.  So if the boy looks
like a girl, guess what?  He/she gets to dodge the draft.  Later on, all
kinds of reasons are given.

I do not intend to decry mysticism in general, or the fact that
pragmatic reasons may be accompanied by mystical explanations. EG, one
could argue that the fact that boys were drafted into the car's army was
a result of Aryin Horo.  etc. and we could go full-circle.

What I am saying is, that specific "superstitious" customs, probably had
pragmatic bases.  The mystical stories might be to perpetuate the
practice or perhaps to romanticize them.

Rich Wolpoe 


From: Ezriel Krumbein <ezsurf@...>
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 19:46:19 -0800
Subject: The name Lisa

>From: Russell Hendel <rhendel@...> - vol 28 #50
> Someone named Lisa told me that she saw in some Sefer that Lisa meant
> >Faith---she asked me why. 

It would be interesting to see the source I serious dout that Lisa is
related to Faith.

The English name Lisa, I believe, comes from Spanish where it means
smooth.  Lisa in Yiddish according to the Weinreich dictionary means
bald (appologies to all the Lisas out there). In Hebrew it would mean to

I think it is probably comes from Aliza which means happy or gay (in its
now archaic form) in Hebrew and it was shortened to be like the English
name Lisa.

Kol Tov 


From: Zusha Frumin <frumin@...>
Subject: The Third Meal on Shabbat

Does one really need to wish and eat challa all over again at third
meal?  During the winter it is so hard for me i'm still feeling so full
from the second meal of shabat.  I just have no t'avon to begin eating
all over again.  I heard somewhere that just sitting down and saying
over d'vrai torah or singing z'mirot might be considered as fulfilling
ones obligation.

[There are clearly a number of different opinions about what is required
for the third meal on Shabbat. A review of what opinions there are that
either do or do not accept something other than a meal with bread as the
third meal on Pesach would be valuable as responses. Mod.]



End of Volume 28 Issue 61