Volume 33 Number 03
                 Produced: Tue Aug  8 21:46:57 US/Eastern 2000

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Amshinover Torah
         [I. Balbin]
Ben and Jerrys Israel
         [Paul Jayson]
Calendar Discrepancies
         [Daniel Katsman]
Kaddish Recital Strategy
         [Yaacov-Dovid Shulman]
Keys on Shabbat
         [Eric Simon]
Lack of Response to Greetings
         [Simcha Streltsov]
Mitzvot for girl's 3rd birthday (was: Upsherin)
         [Alexander Heppenheimer]
Parking but not buying **is** theft--you can be fined!
         [Russell Hendel]
Turning on lights on Yom Tov
         [Hanno Mott]
Upsherin (4)
         [Stuart Wise, Risa Tzohar, Shalom Krischer, Harry Weiss]
What Makes Names Jewish?
         [Asher Friedman]
When is shkiah?
         [Andy Goldfinger]


From: I. Balbin <isaac@...>
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 08:45:54 +1000
Subject: Amshinover Torah

It is rare to be able to find S'forim from Amshinov. The Rebbeim didn't
write down their Torah, and I believe this to be the case for the
current Rebbe Shlita. A new sefer "Yemos Olam" just came out from the
Rebbe who passwd away in USA a few years ago. It is a compendium of
stories and worth getting if you are inspired by such. There is also the
compendium Beis Yitzchok from Reb Yitzchok MiVorke, who was the father
of the first Amshinover Rebbe. Does anyone know of other Sforim Bibeis
Amshinov or with significant Torah from Amshinov?


From: Paul Jayson <P.Jayson@...>
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 17:20:33 +0100
Subject: Ben and Jerrys Israel

I live in London and we have two types of B & J ice cream. Kof K from
the states which I understand is not cholov yisroel and some containers
have an Israeli hechsher - Yavne Rabbinate or Machzikei Hadass
Yavne. Please, please can anyone tell me whether these are cholov
yisroel, or where to find this info out.


From: Daniel Katsman <hannah@...>
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 00:08:30 +0200
Subject: Re: Calendar Discrepancies

Daniel M Wells wrote:
> > From: Ben Z. Katz <bkatz@...>
> > 2) we observe Pesach about 4-5 days on average later than it was
> > observed in geonic times.
> The US Astronomic Board (I forgot the correct title of the institution)
> holds that we are 8 days out....
> On a different tack however, the 4 or 5 days (or 8 mentioned) seem
> rather outrageous when observation of the current full moons tend to
> fall within a day or two or the calculated Jewish full moon days (the
> 14th/15th of the Jewish months). As a further proof, Tokshinki's
> calendar brings down for each month the calculated and the actual
> molad. The difference is never more than +/- one or two days and very
> often on the same day. And thus current celebrations of Pesach also
> occur within close proximity to the actual full moon.

The 4,5, or 8 days refer to the average solar date of Pesah and not to
the discrepancy between the 15th of Nisan and the actual full moon.  The
extra length of the solar year assumed by the Hebrew calendar causes its
calculation of the vernal equinox to be several days later than the
actual date.  Since Pesah cannot fall out before the halakhic equinox,
there are some years in which it occurs a month later than it has to.
This is why Pesah occasionally falls out a month later than Easter,
which is defined as the first Sunday following the first full moon
following the vernal equinox.

Daniel Katsman
Petah Tikva


From: Yaacov-Dovid Shulman <Yacovdavid@...>
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 22:38:20 EDT
Subject: Kaddish Recital Strategy

I have a question regarding the strategy of kaddish recital.  I have
been reciting kaddish for 3/4 of a year, often as shaliach tzibbur.  I
have had the consistent experience of people reciitng Kaddish together,
but out of sync with each other.
    I first thought that a basic rule of thumb is that the group of
Kaddish reciters conforms to the slowest amongst them.  I also thought
that the shaliach tzibbur sets the pace.  Volume was an obvious guess
too (it helps).  And recently, I thought that I discovered the secret:
the person who draws out his vowels so that his voice is almost like a
drone sets the pace.  But none of these have turned out to be the case.
    There often seems to be one person in the minyan who has an tone to
which--generally speaking--other kaddish reciters conform.  (Of course,
in some shuls, it's a wild free-for-all, with five to ten people
reciting Kaddish in an unintelligible cacophony.)  And it's to him that
most people in the shul answer "amen."  Once they've answered amen to
his last sentence, they do not answer amen to stragglers.
    What is this man's mysterious power!?
    I've generally tried to adjust my own kaddish speed to that of
others, particularly as shaliach tzibbur, expecting a quid pro quo
(often in vain).  Sometimes I just decide to go at my own pace.  This
usually results in someone else racing ahead; or I find myself leaving
someone else behind, which I don't like to do.
    All of this interferes with my ability to concentrate on the meaning
of the words I am reciting.
    Does anyone with experience in this matter have any insights?


From: Eric Simon <erics@...>
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 10:58:44 -0500
Subject: Keys on Shabbat

> My objection is to the loophole spirit of the thing. Belts do not come 
> with keys as fasteners. The only reason one is substituting the key for
> the original fastener is in order to carry it.

If my tallis is at home, I put it on and wear it to shul.  The only
reason why I am 'wearing' it is because I can't carry it.

I sometimes wear clip-on sunglasses if it's sunny.  When I walk back, if
it's cloudy, I wear them but put them up b/c it's too dark otherwise.
The only reason why I 'wear' them home is because I can't carry it.

Should these acts also be prohibited?

No, I think the underlying premise here is that the action and the
mechanics of the action are more important than intent here.

-- Eric


From: Simcha Streltsov <simon1@...>
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 16:22:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Lack of Response to Greetings

Gilad J. Gevaryahu <Gevaryahu@...> writes:

> The highest standard for greetings was set by the tana Rabbi Yochanan
> Ben Zakai, and often I have to remind myself that small petty
> bickering should not dissuade us from using Rabbi Yochanan standard.

> "amru alav al Rabbi Yochanan Ben Zakai shelo hekdimo adam shalom
> meolam veafilu nochri bashuk" (Berachot 17a.) Free translation: It was
> said about Rabbi Yochanan Ben Zakai that never did anyone managed to
> say shalom to him first [for he was always first] including a gentile
> in the market.

there is another side of this issue, I think it was R Shimon bar Yohai
who was more selective - if he were to greet someone in the market - 
then everyone assumed that this person has integrity in business dealings.

Simcha Streltsov
<simon1@...>  phone/fax 617-562-1426


From: Alexander Heppenheimer <aheppenh@...>
Date: 19 Jul 2000 13:04:17 -0700
Subject: Re: Mitzvot for girl's 3rd birthday (was: Upsherin)

In MJ 32:97, Aharon Fischman <afischman@...> wrote:

>Does anyone know of similar
> Mitzvot that a girl can start doing at or around her 3rd birthday as a
> sign of her 'maturity'?  Not neccesarily as a way of having a ceremony,
> but rather as a way to allow her to actively participate in Mitzvot?

If you're asking for your own daughter, then Mazel Tov! May she grow to
Torah, marriage, and good deeds.

1. The most obvious one that comes to mind is the mitzvah of lighting
   Shabbos and Yom Tov candles: some communities (particularly Chassidic
   ones) do indeed have it as a standard custom for girls to begin
   lighting at that age. But check with your LOR, because some posekim
   hold that she should light in a different room than her mother in
   order to avoid the issue of a possibly unnecessary berachah.

2. Some posekim (again, ask your LOR) hold that a girl should be dressed
   according to the halachos of tzenius (modesty) from age 3 onward.

3. Depending on her level, she might be able to start practicing other
   mitzvos, such as reciting berachos before and after eating, etc.

Kol tuv y'all,


From: Russell Hendel <rhendel@...>
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 23:34:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Parking but not buying **is** theft--you can be fined!

Jonathan Schiff (V32n70) responds about the status of parking in a parking
lot while doing business in another store.

This **is** theft under Jewish law. However it is a special type of
theft: It is theft where the other party does not loose! Most people
think there is no payment for such a theft. Correct(almost). But
if you continually do it you can be fined.

The exact citations occur in Rambam Thefts and Losses 3:6-9
9)A person who lives (eg parks) in someone elses lot without his
knowledge: Then if the owner does not normally charge then this
person need not pay EVEN if he would otherwise pay(parking meters)

6) A person who took someone elses ox to carry a bundle and returns
the animal intack to the owner...EVEN THOUGH HE HAS VIOLATED A
NEGATIVE PROHIBITION (of theft) nevertheless he does not pay because

As for the other case (walking into a laundromat to get change)
I would think that the owner wants people to use his laundromat
as the advertisement benefits his business

Russell Hendel; Phd ASA
Moderator Rashi is Simple
http://www.RashiYomi.COm/-------NEW IMPROVED


From: Hanno Mott <hdm@...>
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 22:20:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Turning on lights on Yom Tov

In response to Michael Feldstein <MIKE38CT@...>

There was a long very interesting discourse on "Is It Permitted to Turn
Lights on and Off on Yom Tov" by Rabbi Sholom Klass in the Jewish Press
of Brooklyn NY with lots of citations both recent and historical.

I believe the article was last printed on March 29, 1996 [at least that
is the date on the copy I have. It may have been reprinted in more
recent years.

If anyone can't obtain a copy, please contact me at my address below and
I'd be happy to mail oneopy.

Hanno D. Mott


From: Stuart Wise <swise@...>
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 13:12:03 -0700
Subject: Re: Upsherin

A child should be trained to perform mitzvos as soon as the child
understands to follow instructions.  I guess the haircut seemed like a
nice time, but halachically, is there any "responsibility" on the child
to do mitzvos at that age? I don't know, but it seems to me that the
religious objects have something to do with it, and since boys are
obligated to perform more rituals and mitzvos than girls, I doubt if
anything for girls is comparable.

However, as the father of girls, I found it quite meaningful when my
daughters had their Aleph-Bais parties, when they received their first
sefer and first siddur.  The girls then are at an age where such a
ceremony means an accomplishment and a stage of maturity.

Incidentally, my wife and I used such occasions to memorialize my
deceased parents by purchasing the aleph-bais books (Aleph-Binah) and
the first siddur and inscribing it so each time those young ones use
their seforim it should be a merit for the souls of my parents.

From: Risa Tzohar <rtzohar@...>
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:50:57 +0300
Subject: Re: Upsherin

When I was very young I used to mimic my mother when she took a shawl
and covered her hair, lit candles then put her hands over her eyes on
Friday afternoon, so she taught me the bracha.  At around the time I was
3 my zaydee brought me a pair of bronze "travelling candlesticks" in
which you could light chanuka lecht and I lit them next to my mother's
whenever I was at home until I was married.  When my oldest daughter was
3 I gave her the candlesticks and taught her the bracha, she used these
until in the first grade when she got her first siddur, I bought her a
larger pair which took regular shabbat candles and the small ones passed
on the following year to her younger sister when she reached the age of

From: Shalom Krischer <shalom_krischer@...>
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 11:54:18 -0400
Subject: RE: Upsherin

Other than the "obvious" Shabbos Candles, home baked Challah for Shabbos
lends itself very nicely to the Mitzvah of "Challah".  However, I have a
different question.  Although girls do not wear Tzizit (actually, a
Talit Katan), why not?  IE, if a girl wears a four-cornered garment, is
it obligated in Tzizit?  (Growing up, I never thought of asking this).
If yes, then why has the minhag of wearing a Talit-Katan (so that we
have a garment that needs Tzizit) not been applied to girls?  If not,
why not?  It does not seem to be a "time dependent positive
commandment"?  And even if it is, why haven't some women taken it on
anyway (as has been done with many others)?

From: Harry Weiss <harry.weiss@...>
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 00 04:29:13 -0700
Subject: Upsherin

Chabad has a custom that when girls turn 3 they begin light Shabbos
candles.  (Single girls light one candle each.)



From: Asher Friedman <asher36@...>
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 21:58:51 GMT
Subject: What Makes Names Jewish?

I was wondering what makes a name jewish? If a name did not come from
Tanach what makes it jewish? Even names from Tanach if they are are not
common can you use them? Can you name your child any group of syllables
and that's his jewish name? Does it have to be an accepted name used
among jews to be considered jewish? Well, someone had to break the ice
and use an unusual name before it became common.


From: Andy Goldfinger <Andy.Goldfinger@...>
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 12:43:23 -0400
Subject: When is shkiah?

This question occurred to me while flying Eastward across the US on
Shivah Asur B'Tamuz.

Shkiah (sunset) is defined as the local time when the sun sinks below
the horizon.  However, a person flying in an airplane will still see the
sun at this time, since his elevation allows him to see beyond the "zero
altitude" horizon.  Has shkiah occurred for him at this time, or must he
wait until the sun sinks below his horizon?


End of Volume 33 Issue 3