Volume 33 Number 71
                 Produced: Sun Nov  5 13:22:25 US/Eastern 2000

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Aleynu's censored Phrase
         [Aryeh A. Frimer]
Chassidishe Schitah
         [Andy Goldfinger]
Funeral Customs
         [Bob Klein]
Giving Tzedaka to Yeshivot
         [Gidon Ariel]
Kashrus Status of Veal
         [Harris Cohen]
Kashrut of chewing gum
         [Joshua Hosseinof]
Kashrut Question on hot water system
         [Larry J Lennhoff]
Leining Article
         [Mark Symons]
Non-Denominational Prayer Chapel (was Prayer with non-Jews)
         [Nosson Tuttle]
The Reason for not wearing women's garments
         [Russell Hendel]
Zmanim Calculator
         [David Charlap]
Zmanim Calculator (JCAL program)
         [Freda B Birnbaum]


From: Aryeh A. Frimer <frimea@...>
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 17:30:37 +0300
Subject: Aleynu's censored Phrase

It looks as if I gave the wrong impression in my past posting. I
personally do say "she-hem..." When I invoked TRADITION, I was only
attempting to explain why jews were hesitant to reinsert the missing
phrase. Traditional inertia. But the verse was clearly removed by the
censor, improperly - and in light of Rav Shlomo Pick's posting it should
definitely be said!
	{Perhaps someone could explain, though, why tekhelet is not used.)


From: Andy Goldfinger <Andy.Goldfinger@...>
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 09:56:37 -0400 
Subject: Chassidishe Schitah

Mordechai writes:

"During the early years (esp.) of the hassidic movement, hassidic
slaughtering was a point of contention between hassidim and their
opponents. I believe that at first it mainly signified use of a
different, new type of knife, introduced by hassidim - which was
questioned by (only) some Rabbis - due to metallurgical quality issues
and their ramifications on halacha of shechita.  The new type of knife
was later accepted by all though, I believe "

My family and I visited the Empire Poultry plant in Pennsylvania. (As an
aside, this is well worth doing.  You have to call in advance to
schedule the visit, but once there they give you an excellent tour.  You
have to wear protective clothing and hearing protectors.  You get to see
the entire operation from schita through packaging.  I was amused to see
that at the end of the assembly line some chickens were packaged in
"Empire" wrappers while others from the same line were packaged in
"Galil" wrappers.  I found this amusing since I know there are some
people who will eat "Galil" but not "Empire.")

Anyway, while there we dovened mincha in the shochet's bais medresh and
I asked the shochtim about chassidishe schitah.  The told me that the
difference between chassidishe and non-chassidishe was in the knife.  I
asked what the difference was in the knives.  One of them told me "One
is mehr glatt, the other mehr sharf" (One is smoother, the other
sharper).  Then I asked which is which.  None of them could remember!
This surprised me, so they said that nowadays it makes no difference due
to the quality of modern steel.


From: Bob Klein <KL2@...>
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000  09:45:42 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Funeral Customs

My wife attended a funeral yesterday and the Orthodox rabbi who
officiated refused to come to the cemetery, because it has flat bronze
markers, instead of matzeivos.  My wife and I have never heard of this.
Is this a halacha, a minhag,or what?  (A reference to a sefer would also
be appreciated.)

Robert P. Klein                          <KL2@...>
Phone: 301-496-7400                      Fax: 301-496-6905
Mail:  CIT/DCSS, 12A/4011, 12 SOUTH DR MSC 5607,
       BETHESDA, MD 20892-5607


From: Gidon Ariel <Gariel@...>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 12:48:23 +0200
Subject: RE: Giving Tzedaka to Yeshivot

Moshe's question is to the point, uncomfortably so, judging from the
absence of responses.
 From a beneficiary's perspective, I have no answer, but it looks to me
like few if any members of this list are full time kollelnikim.
 From a donor's perspective -- and I am one, however micro:-) -- the
yeshivot that I support are mostly "undergrad" -- that is, Hesder
yeshivot and similar, catering to 18-23 year olds.

I justify my donations to myself based on:
* the belief that no such immersive environments could exist without
charitable support, and 
* the unquestionable successes brought about because of these
institutions, including innumberable Torah publications and institutions
as well as non-Torah [sic] achievements of graduates in virtually all
fields of human endeavor (medicine, law, military, settlement,
outreach...) which are a kiddush Hashem imho as well.

Rabbi Orlofsky also compares Torah study to university study in his kiruv Q
& A tapes, and convincingly (IMHO) puts this issue back into perspective.

Gidon Ariel
Technical Writer, CD Line
NDS Technologies Ltd., Israel


From: Harris Cohen <HarrisCohen@...>
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 18:49:53 EDT
Subject: Kashrus Status of Veal

I know that this is a controversial issue, and that there have been a
bunch of rulings on it such as Rav Moshe Feinstein declaring that caged
Veal shouldn't be kosher; Conservative Judaism going so far as to
calling it not kosher, etc.

Does anyone know about Glatt Kosher Veal that is now passed around the
country? Are the baby calves treated properly in order to get this
designation or do we have Jewish authorities allowing Veal to be
mistreated?  Any information on this issue would be greatly appreciated.

Kol Tov,
-Harris Cohen


From: Joshua Hosseinof <hosseino@...>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 19:06:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Kashrut of chewing gum

Does anyone know what are the actual non-kosher ingredients in the major
brands of chewing gum (Wrigleys, Dentyne, Chiclets, Bubble Yum, Trident)
?  Unfortunately FDA rules allow the gum manufacturers to get with
listing most of the ingredients of gum as just "Gum base" instead of
listing them out in most foods.  Chiclets I can imagine are using
non-kosher stearates for the smooth coating, but I can't find any
information about stick gums as to why they are not kosher in most
cases.  It stands to reason that at least one of the major gum brands
would be kosher certified today if there were not some majorly different
ingredient between kosher and non-kosher chewing gum.


From: Larry J Lennhoff <Larry.J.Lennhoff@...>
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 09:26:13 -0400
Subject: Kashrut Question on hot water system

I've only recently raised my level of observance to include Kashrut,
after many years away.  I've been studying the laws through a number of
books and on-line sources.  I'm especially indebted to Rabbi Forst's
book The Laws of Kashrus.

I'm interested in the difference between a kli rishon (first vessel) and
a kli sheni (second vessel).  Water in a kli rishon is directly heated
by fire.  A container that holds water poured from a kli rishon is a kli
sheni.  What about indirect heating of water?

I recently moved into a new home.  The house uses a heating system
called forced hot water.  Water is heated in common boiler, and is
propelled by pumps through pipes throughout the house.  Each pump is
responsible for one area of the house, called a zone.  Obviously, the
water never leaves the closed loop of piping until it returns to the

I'm considering installing a hot water system that would create a new
zone for the purpose of heating the water.  Water from the boiler would
pass inside a copper pipe and heat the water in the hot water tank.  The
water that does the heating would never become part of the water
delivered by the plumbing.  The water in the tank is never directly
exposed to the fire in the boiler.

Is the hot water tank a kli rishon or a kli sheni?

Kol Tuv,
Larry J Lennhoff


From: Mark Symons <msymons@...>
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 23:24:19 +1000
Subject: Leining Article

Does anyone know how I could obtain  the article:

'Putting the meaning back into leyning : An expressionist approach to
the Taamei Neginah', Le'eyla, 32, pp. 16-18. (It is a publication of the
British Chief Rabbinate. Email to the address at their website won't go
through). Thanks

Mark Symons (Baal Koreh/ Psychiatrist)
Melbourne,  Australia


From: Nosson Tuttle <TUTTLE@...>
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 19:02:27 -0400 
Subject: Non-Denominational Prayer Chapel (was Prayer with non-Jews)

>From: David Schiffmann <das1002@...>
>Subject: re: Prayer with non-Jews
>This reminds me of a related question. I read recently in 'Halachah for
>the business traveller', or a similarly titled booklet (I can't remember
>the author off-hand), that one cannot pray in a non-denominational
>prayer hall of the sort one might find in an airport; if I remember
>correctly, it said this is the view of all the poskim.
>I was wondering, what is the origin for this prohibition?

The origin is the Rabbinical prohibition on praying in (and even
entering) idolatrous places of worship.  The reason why
"non-denominational chapels" are also forbidden is that they were
established for all sorts of worship, including, of course, that which
Judaism considers idolatrous.  Praying in a non-Jew's house, in general,
would NOT be included in this prohibition since the house was set up as
a residence, not as a place of worship, even if the non-Jew prays there.

The Psak I had from 2 separate Poskim (both heads of Batei Din) in
Chicago was that I was forbidden to enter the Rockefeller Chapel there,
even for a graduation ceremony.  It makes sense that most airport or
hospital chapels (if nondenominational) would be treated similarly,
unless it was a room explicitly to cater to Jewish services alone
(e.g. "Minyan area" on New York State Thruway or the Shabbos Room in
Good Samaritan Hospital in Suffern, NY).

Nosson Tuttle <ntuttle@...> or TUTTLE@sensormatic.com (at work)


From: Russell Hendel <rhendel@...>
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 12:47:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: The Reason for not wearing women's garments

Shaya Goldmeier nicely defended the right of men to wear rings.  However
the following statement is not fully accurate

>>Why is it that we get someone who posts as halacha the issur of lo
>>yilbash w/o obviously knowing the halacha?  Lo yilbash says a man cannot
>>wear womens clothes in order to pass as a woman.  That's it!  A mans

The actual halachah is that a >>man cannot wear something that
is UNIQUELY worn by women in that culture<< (The prohibition extends
to eg snipping off only white hairs since that is something women do)

As Shaya points out however, wearing rings is not something done only by
women (if the mans economic status is sufficient) and hence men may wear

Russell Jay Hendel; Phd ASA
Moderator Rashi is Simple


From: David Charlap <shamino@...>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 18:33:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Zmanim Calculator

Gershon Dubin wrote:
> Does anyone have a copy of a zmanim calculator called JCAL, or
> similar program for DOS/Windows which will output a month of zmanim
> at a time in delimited format?

I searched the Simtel archives (an old, and well-stocked source for
shareware) and found:

    The latest rev of JCAL for DOS (from 1991):

    The Windows version of JCAL:

    An Excel spreadsheet that calculates zmanim:

I hope this helps.  I don't think JCAL calculates zmanim, but the
spreadsheet does.  I haven't checked to see how accurate it is.

-- David

From: Freda B Birnbaum <fbb6@...>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 07:43:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Zmanim Calculator (JCAL program)

In v33n69,

Gershon Dubin asks:
> Does anyone have a copy of a zmanim calculator called JCAL, or similar
> program for DOS/Windows which will output a month of zmanim at a time
> in delimited format?

I have a really old program by that name; don't know about Windows but I
think it still works in a DOS window.  The person who sent it to me also
gave me a cute program called JJUKE wihich plays tunes and displays
transliterated lyrics.  I'll dig it out; I can try sending it as an
attachment if you like.

There are probably more sophisticated things around, though....

Freda Birnbaum, <fbb6@...>
"Call on God, but row away from the rocks"


End of Volume 33 Issue 71