Volume 33 Number 72
                 Produced: Sun Nov  5 15:36:41 US/Eastern 2000

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Aleynu's Censored Phrase (2)
         [Sharon and Joseph Kaplan, Michael Kanovsky]
Chassidishe Shechita - Breuer's
         [Samson Bechhofer]
A Good Book ON Jewish Theoology
         [Russell Hendel]
Halachicha & Pregnancy (Vol. 33, #68)
         [Catherine S. Perel]
         [David Maslow]
Men and Wedding Rings
         [Yael Katz]
A Mesorah of Kashruth - Chalav Yisroel & Glatt Kosher
         [Harris Cohen]
Need minyan in St. Thomas 12-22 through 1-2
Resources for the Blind
         [Ada-Rivka Stein]
Rings and Watches
         [Bill Bernstein]
The Seven Liquids.
         [Immanuel Burton]
         [Moish Gluck]
Weddings and Saying "li"
         [Geoffrey Shisler]
Why we don't wear Tfillin
         [Eli Lansey]


From: Sharon and Joseph Kaplan <penkap@...>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 15:22:31 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Aleynu's Censored Phrase

Jerome Parness says (Vol. 33, #61) that the censored phrase wasn't known
and therefore wasn't printed or said; Eli Linas says (Vol. 33, #69) that
even though it was not printed it was known and said. At least one of
them has to be wrong.  But I think both are wrong; it was known (as I
mentioned in an earlier post, even I knew of its existence when I was a
teenager), but it was neither printed nor said.  Again, in my opinion,
we were doing well under that system, and the present trend towards
printing and saying it detracts rather than adds to our tefillot.

Joseph C. Kaplan

From: Michael Kanovsky <kanovsky@...>
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 18:02:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Aleynu's Censored Phrase

> Furthermore, I suspect that just because the censor removed
> them, we didn't stop saying them - father's continued to teach it to
> their children. The only difference is now, publishers are printing it
> in the text again. Therefore, we have always said it, and will continue
> to say it, for this is our TRADITION.
> Eli Linas

My father who is now in his late seventies (ad meah ve'esrim) taught me
as a child to add that verse to aleynu and it was his grandfather who
taught him.  So I guess there was a masoret for some time to say
it. Also anyone who is sensitive to dikduk will notice that va'anachnu
without shehem doesn't make much sense.

mechael kanovsky


From: Samson Bechhofer <SBechhof@...>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 14:35:52 -0400
Subject: Chassidishe Shechita - Breuer's

In Vol. 33, No. 69, Mark Steiner writes that to his surprise, even the
Breuer's Shechita is a "chassidishe" shechita.  He recounts the
inability of a talmid of the Mirrer Yeshiva who had "kabbalah" as a
shochet in Eretz Yisrael (and who presumably is not a "chassid") to gain
an appointment as a shochet for Breuer's.

In point of fact, one of the main shochtim for Breuer's is a
non-chassid.  Breuer's sole standard for gaining appointment is the
ability of the candidate and his level of Yiras Shomayim.  While other
shechitas insist on certain external "chassidishe" trappings, Breuer's
does not.

It is true, however, that at the Rubashkin slaughterhouse over which
Breuer's has primary jurisdiction, the other two shechitas - Margareten
and Lubavitch - have a say in who is hired as a shochet.  Any shochet
approved by 2 out of the 3 can be hired.  It is also true that those two
shechitas do have certain external-trappings-like qualifications
(although not the same ones).  In any event, the rejection of the
appointment of the candidate to whom Mr. Steiner refers was for reasons
having nothing to do with his "chassidishe" tendencies.

Samson R. Bechhofer
(Member, Va'ad HaKashrus, K'hal Adath Jeshurun)


From: Russell Hendel <rhendel@...>
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 12:50:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: A Good Book ON Jewish Theoology

Shaya Potter in v33n67 asks for good books about Jewish ideology.

My top recommendation is still Rav Hirschs commentary on the Bible
(Translated into English). DESPITE its wordiness it is still one of
the best statements of Modern Orthodoxy and its philosophy

Russell Jay Hendel; Phd ASA
Moderator Rashi is SImple


From: Catherine S. Perel <perel@...>
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 02:19:56 -0500
Subject: Halachicha & Pregnancy (Vol. 33, #68)

In response to Louise Miller, Rachel Smith wrote:

> Our Rav (a musmach of R. Moshe Feinstein z'tl) R. Moshe that a
> pregnancy test (e.g. over-the- counter >90% accuracy type, or a blood
> test) is halachically sufficient to confirm pregnancy and to allow
> relations.  The number of halachically possible days to expect the
> period (which of course won't come during pregnancy) based on past
> periods grows unwieldy very fast ...

It is not the case that menstruation ceases during pregnancy.  There
have been documented cases of pregnancy where menstruation (not
"spotting") continues throughout pregnancy.

Catherine S. Perel


From: David Maslow <maslowd@...>
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:40:00 -0400
Subject: Hoshanas

There is a definite order of reading the hoshanas through Sukkot
depending on the day on which the holiday begins.  I would appreciate
some clarification or explanation of the association of each hoshana
with its assigned day within the holiday or the day of the week.


From: Yael Katz <ylkpk@...>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 20:38:37 +0200
Subject: Men and Wedding Rings

There is an article in the latest issue of Tehumin - volume 20,
published a few months ago - by R. Ariel Picar on the groom receiving a
wedding ring at the end of the ceremony.  He suuggests that the kallah
recite appropriate pesukim, such as "simeni ka-hotam al libekha" from
Shir ha-Shirim.  A month ago my cousin's wedding in the Jerusalem area
was conducted precisely according to these lines, though the couple was
not aware at the time of this article.

Yael Levine Katz


From: Harris Cohen <HarrisCohen@...>
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 19:08:29 EDT
Subject: A Mesorah of Kashruth - Chalav Yisroel & Glatt Kosher

Carl Singer writes:

> With Glatt Kosher -- there no longer seems to be a reliable / available
> / convenient supply chain for kosher (but not Glatt) meat -- the metziah
> has changed, to where Glatt Kosher is essentially synonymous with
> "reliable" kosher, I personnally know of not even a single organization
> that supplies (non-Glatt) kosher meat that anyone in the Orthodox
> community uses (correct me if I'm wrong.)  

Here in Highland Park (north of Chicago) in close proximity there is
Best's Kosher/Sinai 48 meat that many frum jews have no problem
eating. The meat is under the supervision of two prominent Chicago
rabbis, Rabbi M. Small and Rabbi H. Kaufman and even the Chabad Rabbi
recognizes that the meat can be considered okay - in a sermon he
discussed how "many of you will eat from him, some won't." The real
problem that some people I have talked to have with Best's Kosher/Sinai
48 is that the owner is Sara Lee, and therefore no longer a jewish
ownership. That is why there has been problem in trying to obtain
Chicago Rabbinical Council (CRC) supervision, but there are some lines
that are Glatt and under the supervision of Rabbi Moshe Soloveichik.

Kol Tov,
-Harris Cohen


From: <Lcharytan@...>
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 21:23:45 EDT
Subject: Need minyan in St. Thomas 12-22 through 1-2

I am going to be in St. Thomas from 12-22-00 to 1-2-01, and I am looking
for a minyan because I am saying Kaddish for my father.  If you or
anyone you know is going to be there and can possibly help out, will you
please let me know ASAP.  My e-mail address is <marczweben@...>
Thank you.


From: Ada-Rivka Stein <AdaatSBCo@...>
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:55:05 EDT
Subject: Resources for the Blind

A friend of ours who is a big talmid chochom has macular degeneration.
I am trying to find resources for him.  So far a search has turned up a
few ideas listed below.

I am wondering if anyone knows about voice-command software available
for hebrew?  What about software that can read to you from a hebrew CD?

Any suggestions will be most welcome.

  From: Saul Mashbaum <mshalom@...>

  Subject: Audio CD's

In the fall issue of Jewish Action, the magazine of the Orthodox Union, Rabbi 
Yitzchok Adlerstein surveys many software products which relate to Jewish 
topics, produced by three major vendors: Bar-Ilan, Davka, and DBS. Among 
products he describes is a daf yomi CD produced by Bar-Ilan which includes 
both the text of the daf and an audio shiur. The article gives 800-925-6853 
as the number for more information on this product (and all other Bar-Ilan 
products).Many mj readers will no doubt find this article of great interest. 
This issue of Jewish Action also describes the OU web cite:http://www.ou.org.

 From: Ezriel Krumbein <ezsurf@...>
 The Daf Yomi is available on CD from:
 CD DAF C/O Torah Communications
 1618 43 St
 Brookly NY 11204 
 Phone # 718-436-4999
 The audio version is 14 CDs ($99 all of Shas)

 There is also a computer CD with the Tzuras HaDaf and links to referenced 
 dafim and rambam Shulchan Aruch etc. Brochos only is $10.and no I do not work 
 for them.Gmar Chatima Tova to all


From: Bill Bernstein <bbernst@...>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 09:17:24 -0500
Subject: Re: Rings and Watches

In the last few MJ's I have seen a number of posts (my own included) on
wedding bands on married men.  This is leading me to the question: what
are we arguing about, if anything?  If it is the statement "the majority
of frum men do/do not wear wedding rings" then someone would have to
first posit a definition of "frum man" and then scientifically canvas to
determine the percentage of marrieds who do or do not wear wedding
rings.  I am not sure what the study would show anyway.

If we are arguing about whether it is permissable, preferable, or
forbidden to wear a wedding ring, I have not seen anyone bring any
sources one way or another, just customs of some particular groups.  By
the same token we could ask the question about wrist watches: up until
recently men did not wear wrist watches, only pocket watches, and in
some communities this is still the case.  The practice in the secular
world changed in World War I when soldiers started wearing wrist watches
and continued the convenience at home after the war.  But I have yet to
see anyone here question the advisability of wearing wrist watches.


From: Immanuel Burton <iburton@...>
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 13:28:00 +0100
Subject: The Seven Liquids.

In order for food to be able to become tameh (ritually unclean) after it
has been picked, it has to become wet from one of the seven liquids,
namely wine, honey, oil, milk, dew, blood and water.  The liquid doesn't
have to be actively poured onto the food, so that, for example, if an
apple falls off a tree and it subsequently rains and the apple gets wet,
it can now become tameh.

In order for bread to be ha'motzei rather than mezonos, its dough must
have been kneaded with one of these seven liquids.

Why are dew and water classified separately?

Immanuel Burton.


From: Moish Gluck <moish@...>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 22:09:53 -0400
Subject: Upsherin

Is there a custom that one should refrain from cutting a girls hair till
age 3 as the custom is by boys? Why are girls different that the custom
is not practiced as much as by boys?


From: Geoffrey Shisler <geoffrey@...>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 16:08:21 +0100
Subject: Re: Weddings and Saying "li"

In Vol33 #69 David Olivestone wrote:

>In England, most centrist Orthodox chupot take place in a shul, and
>usually the Rabbi and the Chazan "officiate" together. In both United
>Synagogue and Federation of Synagogue shuls (both organizations are
>centrist Orthodox), the Rav and the Chazan are usually also the edim (I
>believe this is official policy), to make sure that they have shomrei
>Shabbat edim. In any case, it is almost always the case that the Rav
>first says the "harei at . . ." ahead of the chatan, but the Chazan is
>the one who says the word "li". 

In a previous incarnation I served as Chazan in the famous 'New
Synagogue' Stamford Hill, in London. My colleague was Rabbi Dr Y Lerner
Shlita (later to become Dayan Lerner of the London Beth Din).

At the time I was there, about 30 years ago, it was a very popular Shul
for weddings and we conducted scores of them - frequently three or four
on one afternoon, and once even five!

As Chazan, I never said 'Li', Rabbi Lerner always said it himself. He
was of the opinion that only someone who was very silly could possibly
imagine for one moment that 'he' was intending to marry the Kallah. The
Kavanah (intention) of the Chatan was beyond doubt. The Kavanah of the
Kallah was beyond doubt. The Kavannah of the Mesader Kiddushin (the one
conducting the wedding) was beyond doubt, and the understanding of the
Edim was beyond doubt - since, as David correctly says, the Rav and the
Chazan were invariably the Edim, ie Rav Lerner and me.

I have since conducted countless weddings myself, and have continued to
follow his example.

Rabbi Geoffrey Shisler
Bournemouth (Orthodox) Hebrew Congregation
UK                                              <Rav@...>


From: Eli Lansey <elansey@...>
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 23:12:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Why we don't wear Tfillin

David Charlap wrote:
<< ...Which then leads to another question: Why only during shacharit?
Why not also put on Tfillin during mincha and ma'ariv?  If one is able
to be careful during shacharit, surely one can be just as careful during
a shorter service.>>

Many S'fardim do wear t'filin during mincha on fast days.  A few wear
them during mincha, on days when they feel that they are on a high
enough spiritual level.  I believe that the main reason for not wearing
tefilin regularly during mincha is due to the fact that it is in the
middle of the day, and it is a shorter service.  If we spend an hour or
so davening, before our day gets started, then we are more likely to be
aware that we are standing before Hashem, but during the often rushed
mincha, in the middle of a busy day, it is easier to forget, and loose
the needed respect for the tefilin.



End of Volume 33 Issue 72