Volume 34 Number 46
                 Produced: Sun May 13  7:13:49 US/Eastern 2001

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Bishul Akum for Sephardim
         [Josh Backon]
Dairy on Shavuot
         [Joseph Mosseri]
Electronic Alarm Systems
         [Eli Lansey]
Eretz Yisrael and Am Yisrael
         [Leona Kroll]
Rav Kook and yomtov sheni observance in Israel
         [Mike Stein]
Shavers & R' Moshe Fienstien
Tzitzis instructions
         [Shlomo Abeles]
Yom Tov Shanei Shel Galus
         [Hanno Mott]
Yom Tov Sheni in Israel for Visitors (4)
         [Betzalel Posy, Rabbi Zvi H Lieberman, Mark Steiner, Esther
Jacobowitz Walzer]
Request: kosher in Winona
         [Asher Goldstein]


From: Josh Backon <BACKON@...>
Date: Sun,  13 May 2001 13:38 +0200
Subject: Re: Bishul Akum for Sephardim

Rav Ovadiah Yosef in Yechaveh Daat V 54 rules leniently for Sephardim
who are travelling or are invited to a simcha: as long as the restaurant
or caterer has a recognized hashgacha, in a B'DIAVAD situation, they are
permitted to eat there even if a Jew only lights the fire in the oven.

Josh Backon


From: Joseph Mosseri <JMosseri@...>
Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 00:40:14 -0400
Subject: Dairy on Shavuot

I've been perplexed by this issue for very long and I was wondering if
some one could shed some light on this issue.

What is the origin of eating dairy on Shavuot?

It seems as if the Rema is the 1st one to mention it, but I've heard of
references to the KolBo. Can anyone date the earliest source for this

Those that do eat a dairy meal on Shavuot, who do they deal with the
obligation of eating a meat meal on YomTov?

Is this dairy custom universal, or did it spread out slowly from certain
Eastern European communities to the rest of the Jewish world??

Any information that can be provided would be greatly appreciated.

Joseph Mosseri


From: Eli Lansey <elansey@...>
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 10:47:46 -0400
Subject: re: Electronic Alarm Systems

A more practical answer the the problem:
We had our alarm company put an override switch into the alarm console. 
It turns off the motion sensor and makes the alarm system 'think' that
all the doors are open (There was a problem with the display that if a
door was opened it would show "Check all doors" and once the door was
closed it would change back to its original " **Sonitrol** " [a p'sik
reisha since every time a door was open the display would *always*
change] This also solves the problem for those with alarm systems that
beep when a door is opened or closed). The switch does not override the
smoke or CO detectors so we do not loose that protection.  I'm sure that
most alarm companies would install a switch like that for you if you ask
(or even offer to pay) for them.
These switches avoid the whole problem entirely, there is no 'boneh'
because, to the alarm system, the doors are already open and a person
opening the door does not close a circuit.  The motion sensor circuit is
disconected so there is no issue of havarat eish or boneh.  Basically,
the only problem is remembering before Shabbas to flip the switch.

Eli Lansey.


From: Leona Kroll <leona_kroll@...>
Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 23:21:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Eretz Yisrael and Am Yisrael

This is tied to the question of keeping one day or two days and I
thought it would be of interest.  I asked my rav why the Rebbe (the
Lubavitcher Rebbe) told people to hold one day in Israel whether they
were visiting or lived here. He said the pnimious reason is that every
Jew has an intrinsic connection to the Land, to the point of mutual
ownership, and regardless of whether you've officially moved here, in
fact even if you are visiting by yourself and your entire family-
spouse, children, parents, etc.- are still chutz l'Arutz, that mutual
ownership between a Jew and Israel "anchors" a person, giving you the
status of a "permanent" resident for the duration of your stay.

By way of analogy- I guess you could picture two people, both born in
China, one to Chinese nationals and one to Americans living
abroad. Let's say both go to New York. Now, the one whose parents are
Chinese, until he applys for a greencard or starts his naturalization
process he is a foreign visitor and he is restricted accordingly. The
other one, who has never before set foot in the States, is nonetheless a
citizen and there is no need for him to formalize the relationship.

This is not a perfect analogy, but you get the idea.


From: Mike Stein <mike@...>
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 08:17:58 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Rav Kook and yomtov sheni observance in Israel

Ed Ehrlich's <eehrlich@...> posting below brought back a memory
which adds nothing to the substantive discussion at hand, but is a
lovely vignette of Israeli society.

Ed wrote: 
> I once heard that Rabbi Kook ruled that visitors to Eretz
> Yisrael should follow the local custom and not observe Yom Tov
> Shenii ....  If Rabbi Kook made such a ruling it apparently has
> never been widely observed.

This story occured in the mid-60's, during my first time in Eretz
Yisrael as a student. I had recently heard about this psak of Rav Kook's
from a source long-since forgotten, and during a bus ride in
Yerushalayim I was eagerly passing it on in English to a fellow student.
Suddenly from a few rows away, a middle-aged woman interjected: "aval
rov haposkim lo maskimim ito" (but most poskim don't agree with him).

Mike Stein

From: <rubin20@...>
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 12:45:24 -0400
Subject: Re; Shavers & R' Moshe Fienstien

I have heard from a close Talmid of R' Moshe somthing to the effect that
R' Moshe did not want to print a Teshuva saying that shaving was
permissable, as he felt for Haskofa reasons people should grow beards. It
is noteworthy, that he casualy mentions shaving being permissable in
other Teshuvos.


From: Shlomo Abeles <sba@...>
Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 19:03:12 +1000
Subject: Tzitzis instructions

See Taamei Haminhogim for these instructions
(And IIRC R" Feldman's Kitzur Shulchan Oruch).



From: Hanno Mott <hdm@...>
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 16:59:13 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Yom Tov Shanei Shel Galus

> I wonder if any MJers can recommend a good book on the institution of Yom
> Tov Shanei Shel Galus.

Try "Yom Tov Sheni Kehilchaso" by Rav Yerachmiel D. Fried which apparently
was originally written in Hebrew since the version I have was adapted into
English by Moshe Dombey and published by Targum/Feldheim in 1990

Hanno D. Mott


From: Betzalel Posy <kbposy@...>
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 10:06:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Yom Tov Sheni in Israel for Visitors

> From: Bob Werman <RWERMAN@...>
> Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, z"l, held that a visitor should observe one
> day of yom tov, UNLESS he/she was convinced that s/he would NEVER make
> aliya.  He also suggested that hotels that did a seder sheni in Israel
> should have some music, a drum or harmonica with the meal.

I was hoping Bob could site a source for the first point.

I was told by my first Rosh Yeshiva, Rav Meir Schlesinger of Shaalvim,
in a shiur on the topic that he gave yearly, that Rav Auerbach was one
of the primary proponents of two days, including all mitzvos asei,
unless i bochur was convinced the he WOULD make aliya.  He did
recommend, however, that yeshiva bochurim put on tephilin on the last
day, without a bracha, because he felt that for bnei torah in Israel,
there was no problem of zilzul yom tom (disrespect). Rav Schlesinger,
shlita, was a musmach of Rav Auerbach ztl, although he personally
advocated the 1.5 approach for those who has serious firm intentions of
Aliya.  The test he suggested for yeshiva guys was if they met an
Israeli girl, would they marry her and stay.(and I do not know what his
psak for women or for families was).

Rav Schlesinger reccommended two days for my family, in Israel for the
year, despite the fact that they would have every intention of making
aliyah if they could, based on that Psak of Rav Auerbach. (They did keep
two days, although based on the classic psak from Rabbi Feinstein
through our US-based LOR.) They did end up making aliya, several years
later, but myself and my American siblings, including one who is
learning in Israel, keep two days when visiting them, per their original

Betzalel Posy

From: Rabbi Zvi H Lieberman <rabbi@...>
Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 00:25:55 +0100
Subject: RE: Yom Tov Sheni in Israel for Visitors

I would love a source for this.

Zvi H Lieberman

From: Mark Steiner <marksa@...>
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 17:45:50 +0300
Subject: Re: Yom Tov Sheni in Israel for Visitors

    A number of posters have written as though there were not an
accepted custom (minhag) concerning visitors from abroad in Eretz
Yisrael on Yom Tov.  This is far from the case.  R. Yisrael Shklover, a
disciple of the Vilner Gaon, and a gadol in his own right, who settled
in Eretz Yisrael and lived in Zfat, wrote the standard compendium of
Laws of Eretz Yisrael, the Peat Hashulchan.  He writes (2:15): "People
who come from abroad (hutz laaretz) to visit the graves of zaddikim and
spend Yom Tov here and then return to their place abroad, celebrate the
Second Day of Yom Tov (shel galuyot) in all respects, and there is a
special synagogue where they recite the Yom Tov prayers [on the Second
Day]."  He cites the responsa of his predecessor in Zfat, R. Yosef Karo
as his source.  He of course is aware of the other opinion, which is
that of the Haham Zvi, but rejects it.  More important, it is clear that
everybody in Eretz Yisrael (Ashkenazim and Sefaradim) rejected the
opposing opinion, to the extent, as he writes, that there were special
shuls for visitors.

    The argument that visitors 2,000 years ago kept only one day and
thus should do so today was not lost on R. Yosef Karo.  The Rambam had
already rejected the presupposition of this argument (Hilkhot Yom Tov
6:11; cf.  Hiddushei R. Hayim Halevi for an analysis) when ruling (in
another context) that the Second Day has a different status today than
it did then; and that the term "minhag avoteinu" in this context does
not mean that we behave as though there were still a Sanhedrin, etc.
Rather, for reasons some of which are given in the Talmud, the dominant
opinion on which sanctified practice is based, is precisely that the
Second Day has the status of a "minhag" or local custom and the usual
laws of local custom apply to visitors to Israel today.  Namely, they
must keep their local custom unless they accept the mitvah of living

     It is well known that there are many "foreign residents" in "kolel"
communities like Ramat Shlomo (Shuafat) and Ezras Torah, Jerusalem, who
keep the Second Day for years after they come here, because they are
being supported from abroad (fathers-in-law, etc.), and were the support
cut off, they would return to the (e.g.) U. S. on the next plane
(planes, they say, didn't exist in the time of the Peat Hashulhan).
[They presumably rely on rulings of R. Elyashiv, shlita, though I have
heard these ideas in the name of the very R. Shlomo Zalman, z"l, who was
quoted to the contrary by one of the posters on this list.  Which
persuades me to rely only on written sources or things I have heard
myself.]  This may itself be a violation (in the other direction) of the
"custom" as cited by the Peat Hashulhan, as much as the permissive
rulings of some of the rabbis quoted on the other side of the issue.

Mark Steiner

From: Esther Jacobowitz Walzer <walzer@...>
Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 20:42:32 -0400
Subject: Yom Tov Sheni in Israel for Visitors

I was surprised to read Bob Werman's statement about what Rav Shlomo
Zalman thought about a nonIsraeli, in Israel for the year, keeping only
one day. In 1979-80, I was spending the year in Michlala. I had been
told by someone I felt was knowledgable that since I was staying for all
three yom tovim, I only needed to keep one day.

 I happened to be spending my yom tov of Shemini Atzeret at the home of
Rabbanit Rachel Goldberg, a daughter of Rabbi S.Z. Auerbach and the wife
of Rabbi Zalman Nechemia Goldberg.  I blithely informed her that I had
already only kept one day of yom tov on Sukkot, as I had been told was
okay.  She seemed quite concerned, and said I should ask her "abba" if
this was really the appropriate thing to do. We walked over to Rabbi
Shlomo Zalman's house in Shaarei Chessed.  He told me- -I remember this
clearly, as I felt foolish asking and was struck by the combination of
his firmness and sweetness as he talked to me -- that this was a
question I needed to have asked a rav about and that since I was
planning, presumably, to be returning to the U.S., I should DEFINITELY
keep two days of yom tov.  Anyway, regards to Bob Werman.

Esther Jacobowitz Walzer


From: Asher Goldstein <mzieashr@...>
Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 11:41:04 +0200
Subject: Request: kosher in Winona

Is there anyone on the list from Winona, Minn., who can answer questions
about kashrut and synagogues and hotels in that city, or someone who
might know someone who can?  This is for my brother-in-law's wife, who
does not subscribe to mail-Jewish.  (She lives in Brooklyn, and I will
forward any responses and then have her contact correspondents


End of Volume 34 Issue 46