Volume 34 Number 47
                 Produced: Sun May 13 18:01:19 US/Eastern 2001

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

         [Carl Singer]
Dairy on Shavuot
         [Jeff Fischer]
Ibn Ezra
         [Ben Z. Katz]
Learning Navi
         [Andrew Klafter]
m'Khokikai Yehuda
         [Robert Werman]
More Lag
         [Stan Tenen]
Rabanon overriding D'orisa
         [Zev Sero]
Responsa - Mima'amakim
         [Alan Koor]
Tefilla question - Phraseology
         [Ben Z. Katz]
Torah and Archeology
         [Ozzie Orbach]
Yom Tov Sheini shel galuyot
         [Rabbi Y.H.Henkin]
Yom Tov Sheni in Israel for Visitors
         [Fred Dweck]


From: Carl Singer <CARLSINGER@...>
Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 08:11:24 EDT
Subject: Alarms

Hopefully to clarify -- not confuse:

 From an "engingeering" (NOT halahic) standpoint "turning off" an alarm
for Shabbos is not that straight forward.

For doors and other normally "closed" sensor switches -- where the
opening of the door "opens" the circuit and thus "notifies" the alarm
console that a door has been opened, then a 'Shobbos" switch (within
that circuit) which opens the circuit may do the trick.  (this applies
symetrically if the switch is normally "open" and opening the door
"closes" the circuit."

Similarly, if the "Shabbos" switch cuts power (which is minimscule) to
each of these circuits then the opening and closing of sensor switches,
then there is nothing flowing along the circuit and presumably no

If, on the other hand, the "Shabbos" switch simply "tells" the console
to ignore the goings on (i.e. don't change status / display) then the
(powered) circuits are being opened and closed -- we still have a
potential problem.

Carl Singer


From: Jeff Fischer <jfischer@...>
Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 09:07:01 -0400
Subject: RE: Dairy on Shavuot

The origin of eating dairy, I believe is one of a few things.  One is
that Israel is Eretz zavas Chalav udVash.  B. That Before the Jews
actually received the Torah, they could not have meat.  (I could be
wrong). [I have not heard this one before. Mod.]

As to what to do about meat on Yom Tov, most people only have 1 milchig
meal on Yom Tov or have a Milchig Appetizer, wait a little bit and then
have a fleishig meal.


From: Ben Z. Katz <bkatz@...>
Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 10:28:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Ibn Ezra

>From: Saul Davis <sdavis@...>
>BTW if anyone has difficulty with an Ibn Ezra tell me, I can see what
>the Mehoqeqey Yehuda says and fax the appropriate page.

There have been hundreds of supercommentaries on IE because his style is
so terse, his grammatical points quite technical and his astrological
comments based on medieval concepts.  I am not familiar with the 2 in Mr.
Davis' chumash, but there was a 14th century commentary by Yosef Bonfils
that was well known and reprinted many years ago (it is now out of print).
The English Ibn Ezra available on Bereshit, Shemot (the long commentary)
and Bamidbar is excellent and explains many of the difficulties in the Ibn
Ezra.  The Hebrew edition by Wiser published by Mosad Harav Kook is a
classic and extremely helpful (and also out of print unfortunately, altho
it was abridged for the new Torat Chayim mikraot Gedolot published by Mosad
harav Kook)

Ben Z. Katz, M.D.
Children's Memorial Hospital, Division of Infectious Diseases
2300 Children's Plaza, Box # 20, Chicago, IL 60614
Ph 773-880-4187, Fax 773-880-8226


From: Andrew Klafter <andrew.klafter@...>
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 17:04:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Learning Navi

> From: Frank Reiss <freiss47@...>
>  .... I have noticed that in my community, there is an emphasis
> on learning Halachos, while I would like to learn Navi, which as I said,
> I missed out on.
>      ...I know that I am oversimplifying this, but I am getting the
> impression that the frum-Yeshiva world prefers to concentrate on Laws,
> which become mundane to me after a while, (How many times am I going to
> hear about how to eat the Shabbos meals this year, doesn't it become a
> little stale after the 5th time?)
>  ....My question is, is this the way it is, and should I stop
>asking, or do I have a valid point?

You DO have a VERY VALID POINT.  There is no question.  I happen to very
much enjoy studying halachah and gemara, but there is a overly narrow
focus nowadays in the Litvish/Yeshivish world.  You will notice that
many of the most popular lecturers in the Orthodox Community (Yissachar
Frand, Beril Wein, Yisroel Reissman) are people who take information
from a broader range of sources: Navi, Midrash, Zohar, Chassidus, etc.
They are so popular because this information is inherently more

Why such a focus on Gemara and Halacha?  Well, to start with, gemara and
halacha are what teenagers focus on in Yeshiva for the most part.  The
skills required to study those texts are differet from the skills
required to understand Navi, Midrash, Chassidus, or Kabbala.  The
typical yeshiva educated Rabbi nowadays may be totally ignorant of
Kabbala, and may not have much of an affinity for decoding obscure

I will also refer you to an important paper by Rabbi Chaim Soleveitchick
which talks about the new emphasis on halocha.  It is titled "Rupture
and Reconstruction" (published in Tradition Magazine) and he argues that
the emphasis on halacha is caused by the separation from Yiddish culture
after the Holacaust.  We now measure and codify things that were once
just part of endemic yiddish culture.  For example, there are now
countless books on the measurements of regious articles.  How wide or
long must my tallos koton be?  how much grape juice must my becher hold?
At one time, we simply used the becher that our father or grandfather
used, and we had no question about its legitimacy.  After all, we had a
mesorah from Har Sinai.  If a book on halocha suggested that Zeide's
becher didn't hold a full revi'is of wine, we would DISMISS THE BOOK AS
INACCURATE.  We would have more confidence in Zeide's becher that a
sefer by a young, arrogant talmid chacham.

One thing I'd add, as a counterpoint, however, is that when there are
unusual calender events, like Shabbos Erev Pesach, people are not
FASCINATED by the occurence, but they are AFRAID of violating the
halochah.  Therefore, I'd inerpret some speeches and classes as evidence
of yir'as shomayim; they just happen to sometimes be intellectually and
literarily dull.

A good shabbos to ALL my Jewish brothers and sisters, the Children of

-Nachum Klafter


From: Robert Werman <rwerman@...>
Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 14:52:22 +0200
Subject: m'Khokikai Yehuda

I have a 5 volume reprint of the m''Khokikai Yehuda, under the imprint
of the Reinman Seforim Center, Inc.  29 Essex St. NY, NY 10002 without
any date.

In addition to the items you mentioned there is an apparatus, called
m'korai u-vurai Rashi which offers sources for the Rashi on the Khumash
more complete, in my opinion, than Berliner, the standard source.

 From the qualitty of the print, I assume that this is photo-offset of
the edition Saul Davis owns.

__Bob Werman


From: Stan Tenen <meru1@...>
Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 09:15:27 -0400
Subject: More Lag

Another association with the 33 days is the 33 vertebrae of the human
spinal column (including fused vertebrae).

The spinal column, of course, is of fundamental importance to persons
attempting kabbalistic meditation.

Meru Foundation   http://www.meru.org   <meru1@...>


From: Zev Sero <Zev@...>
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 14:22:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Rabanon overriding D'orisa

Ira Walfish <Ira.Walfish@...>

> I am interested in finding examples of areas in which the Rabbis 
> rule that if one does not fulfill a d'rabonin ruling, they are not
> yotzei (fulfilling) the d'orisa commandment (even if they actual
> DID the d'orisa commandment).

The Torah says to thank Hashem after eating and being satisfied.  The
Rabbis laid out a basic text for those thanks, requiring three berachot,
and requiring specific lines to be included in each of them.  There is
no question that even the first beracha, written by Moshe Rabbenu, is
miderabannan, i.e. that Moshe was acting in his capacity as a Rabbi, not
as the transmitter of Hashem's oral law; and certainly there can be no
question that the 2nd and 3rd berachot are not required mideoraita,
since they were not said for many years after Moshe Rabbenu taught us
about the requirement to bench.  But, IIRC, if one is not sure whether
one benched properly, even if one is sure one benched *something*, it is
regarded as a safek deoraita, and one must bench again.


From: Alan Koor <alkoor@...>
Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 17:21:36 +0200
Subject: Responsa - Mima'amakim

An acquaintance from my neighborhood (Kfar Ganim, Petach Tikva), is
trying to track down a copy of a She'eilot Ve'tshuvot (responsa)
entitled Mima'amakim written by a Rav Oshry (?).

The responsa were originally written in the Kovno Ghetto and published
after the war. The photocopied pages he has, deal with questions such
as; "Is there a need for a Mezuzah on the doors in the Ghetto as only
possul (unfit) ones were now available and the residents in any event
have no idea if they will return home that night or ever again". Another
was; "Can the son of a moisser (informer/collaborator) be called to the
Torah using his father's name".

The photocopied pages were used by a local Rav to give a shiur on Yom
Hashoa (Holocaust Memorial Day) on the subject of g'vurah (heroism).
The Rav only had access to these few photocopied pages.

My acquaintance was told that if any copies of this sefer are available,
they might be found in Brooklyn, New York.

I would greatly appreciate if anyone could assist our search and contact
me either on or off the list.

Shlomo Koor


From: Ben Z. Katz <bkatz@...>
Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 09:52:51 -0500
Subject: Re: Tefilla question - Phraseology

>From: Boruch Merzel <BoJoM@...>
>Mark Symons writes: << The reference to Shochein Ad reminds me of
> something else about this. It bothers me that in the traditional
> ashkenaz melody for Shabbat, the division into phrases has Shochein  Ad
> Marom as one phrase, and V'Kadosh Sh'mo as the next phrase, which seems
> to go against the meaning.  >>
>The traditional Ashkenaz nusach does not break the phrasing in this manner.  
>In seven decades of davening I have heard it done that way very seldom and 
>only by the most ignorant of baalei t'filah.  The proper Nusach chant  would 
>be: "Shochein ad" (He who abides forever) "Morom V'kodosh shmo" (exalted and 
>holy is His name) and the melody flows perfectly with the meaning.
>Boruch Merzel

I agree.  Many "inappropriate" word divisions are just made by baalei
tefilah and chazanim who do not understand what the words mean.  There
are many to cite, but a few include "rofay cholay, amo yisrael" (at the
end of the 8th beracha in the amidah) which should be "rofay, cholay amo
yisrael); "mekabetz nidchay, amo yisrael" (10th beracha) which should be
"mikabetz, nidchay amo yisrael"; "melech ohav, tzedaks umeshpat" (11th
beracha) which should be "melech, ohav tzedaka umeshpat"); "al kal
divray shirot vetishbachot, david ben yishai, avdecha meshichecha"
(shacharit for shabat, a bit after the shochen ad quote above) which
should be "al kal divray shirot vetishbachot david ben yishai, avdecha
meshichecha"; and a few at the end of anim zemirot (for brevity I will
just give the correct word divisions here): "chavash, kova yeshuah
berosho", "shis hamon shiray, na alecha", and "tikar shiras rash,
beeynecha".  And while I am on a high-horse about "anim zemirot": I
can't resist pointing out that it is "vayeshavucha: (from lehashvot, to
equalize or compare) in the 8th line (not "vayashvucha").

kol tuv.

Ben Z. Katz, M.D.
Children's Memorial Hospital, Division of Infectious Diseases
2300 Children's Plaza, Box # 20, Chicago, IL 60614
Ph 773-880-4187, Fax 773-880-8226


From: Ozzie Orbach <OOrbach560@...>
Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 08:57:24 EDT
Subject: Torah and Archeology

Does anyone know of an archeology book that supports the torah's view of
how the jewish people developed into a nation?  Ozzie Orbach


From: Rabbi Y.H.Henkin <henkin@...>
Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 15:49:43 +0200
Subject: Yom Tov Sheini shel galuyot

    This is one of the rare Halachic issues to which there is no clear
resolution--all of the various shitot have support. The prevailing
custom has always been that visitors keep two days, which leaves open
the question of who is a visitor.

    In Nishmat, the midrasha for women founded by my wife, I advise
students that if they plan to have stayed in Israel for less than 12
Hebrew months from day of arrival, they are to keep two days, and if 12
or more, one day. This is the ruling of the Aruch haShulchan and of
shu"t Tzitz Eliezer, and similar to the ruling I heard from R. ELimelch
Bar-Shaul z"l when I was a student here many years ago (shalosh
regalim). In shu"t Bnei Banim vol. 3 no.3 I explain the sources for the
various shitot, and why I accepted this one.

    I also wrote that in the case of clonflict between the rabbis of a
visitor's community in chutz la"aretz and those in Israel on the topic
of Yom Tov Sheini in Israel, he should follow the rulings of his
community's rabbis--until such time as he makes aliyah and is no longer
a member of his community in chutz la'aretz.

    With Torah blessings,
    Yehuda Herzl Henkin.


From: Fred Dweck <fredd@...>
Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 05:17:52 -0700
Subject: RE: Yom Tov Sheni in Israel for Visitors

If you are interested, Rav Ovadiah Yosef in Yechaveh Daat discusses 
the issue at length.

Rabbi Fred (Yeshuah) E. Dweck


End of Volume 34 Issue 47