Volume 36 Number 16
                 Produced: Wed Mar 27 17:40:30 US/Eastern 2002

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Bircat Ilonot
         [Yaakov Fogelman]
Death, Where Is Thy (Bee) Sting?
Friday Nite Davening
         [Joel Rich]
Muksah question (2)
         [Gershon Dubin, Gil Student]
Pet Food
         [Carl Singer]
Rabbi Israel (Azriel) Miller zt"l
         [Mike Gerver]
Tal Umatar
         [Michael J. Savitz]
Torah Reading by a Minor
         [Gil Student]
Unmarried Men wearing Talis (2)
         [Steven Pudell, Gil Student]
         [Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz]
Zvi Zohar Class - april 7
         [Joseph Mosseri]


From: Yaakov Fogelman <top@...>
Subject: Bircat Ilonot

In response to Daniel and Hannah Katsman's inquiry on the custom of some
people not to do bircat ilonot on Shabbat, I recall reading that some
rabbis feared that one might move the tree, which is muktza, or pluck
fruit, flowers, or leaves. If you would like a copy of my article on
Bircat Ilonot, including legal,sociological and mystical aspects,
originally published in the JPost, or to join my parasha and holiday
studies list, just send me an e-mail address.


From: chihal <chihal@...>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:56:09 -0600
Subject: Death, Where Is Thy (Bee) Sting?

Shalom, Friends:
	Frank Silbermann <fs@...> asks:

<<Shmeryl is very allergic to bee stings, to the point that, if stung he
is quite likely to die without prompt medical attention.  He
 ... (carries) an adrenalyn injection and a can of insecticide whenever
he walks outdoors (even though it has been years since he was last
stung). If he goes for a walk on Yom Tov, is he allowed to carry his
kit?  Or, without a special heter, is Shmeryl forbidden on the grounds
that these items are muksah?>>

	I'm not a Posek, nor do I play one on TV ;), but in my humble
opinion he not only may carry a kit, he MUST carry it. The Torah
commands us "ushmartem et nafshotaychem," "you must guard your lives."
Suicide is forbidden, and putting oneself in danger of death is akin to
suicide. Plus, saving a life supercedes even Shabbat, let alone Yom Tov.
Ergo, forget "permissable."  Is it not **mandatory** to carry a
lifesaving kit on Shabbat and Yom Tov?  

Charles Chi (Yeshaya) Halevi


From: <Joelirich@...> (Joel Rich)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 07:58:30 EST
Subject: Re: Friday Nite Davening

And the reason that almost everyone answers baruch hu baruch shmo during
the daily tefillat hatzibbur (repetition of the amidah) is?????

Joel Rich

> I would assume that since it' s not a repetition of the amidah we've just 
> said, it's tefillat hatzibor, and we want to be yotzai with the Bracha. 
> Rose Landowne


From: Gershon Dubin <gershon.dubin@...>
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:08:13 -0500
Subject: Muksah question

 From: Cohen, David A <davidaco@...>

<<This is obviously an object that is not only muktzeh mehamat gufo, by
its nature, like the life-saving medicine is, but it is a more stringent
issur of muktzeh, which is mehamat issur.>> 

There is a dispute among the rabbonim whom Hatzalah consults as to
whether the radio is considered a keli shemelachto le'isur or leheter
(a utensil used for prohibited or permitted use). 

Either one permits carrying it for the purpose of using it when needed.
This is much LESS stringent than muktzeh machmas gufo, which can never
be carried in a normal fashion.

<<Not by way of comparison, but in a similar vein, Hatzalah members are
allowed to carry their two-way radios with them on Shabbat to shul.>>

        This choice of terminology leads to mistakes later in your post.
Hatzala radios are NOT carried, but worn.  The difference, as explained
by Rav Moshe Feinstein in the relative teshuva, is crucial.  It means

<<He is also allowed to carry this muktzeh mereshut lereshut on Shabbat, 
i.e. an issur deorayta.>>

        Carrying in a reshus harabin on Shabbos is a melacha of
hotza'ah, not muktza.  Wearing the radio is HETER, not a violation of a
derabanan or a deoraysa.


From: Gil Student <gil_student@...>
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:59:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Muksah question

Michael Kahn wrote:
>This raises another famouse issue. Is it permitted to carry two things that 
>are attached together on Yom Tov when you only need to carry one of them 
>for example keys on a key chain one of the keys.

R. Pesach Eliyahu Falk discusses this extensively in a responsum in his
Machazeh Eliyahu.  He cites R. Tzvi Pesach Frank and the Chafetz Chaim
(in Machaneh Yisrael) who are, to a degree, lenient.  He argues that the
responsum of R. Moshe Feinstein (regarding, I believe, carrying extra
cigarettes on Yom Tov) that is frequently cited on this topic is
actually irrelevant (because each individual cigarette might be used on
Yom Tov).

Gil Student


From: <CARLSINGER@...> (Carl Singer)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:13:45 EST
Subject: Re: Pet Food

As far as dogs go Farfel (the dog) thrived for many a Peasch on a
mixture that our Vet recommended which was matah farfel, matzoh meal,
eggs, salt, etc.  -- and, of course, putting people gravy on top of
anything makes dogs happy.  We also had separate bowls (water & food) as
the year-round certainly were chumitzdik.

Lyndon Goldsmith our friend and vet in Edison had "the forumula"

Also -- CYLOR -- but their is an issue (isur) of benefiting from a
mixture of meat & milk that needs to be monitored when dealing with pet

A zeesun Pesach

Carl Singer 


From: <MJGerver@...> (Mike Gerver)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:07:02 EST
Subject: Rabbi Israel (Azriel) Miller zt"l

I was very sad to hear of the death of Rabbi Israel Miller, whose public role 
in the Jewish community spanned the historic years from World War II to the 
beginning of the 21st century. He was for many years Vice President of YU, 
was rabbi of the Kingsbridge Jewish Center in the Bronx, served a term as 
chairman of the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish 
Organizations, and was president of the Claims Conference until shortly 
before he died.

I got to know Rabbi Miller during the many years we lived across the street 
from his daughter Debbie and her husband Norman Kram in Brookline. They often 
had minyanim in the house when Rabbi Miller and his wife were visiting for 
chagim. Years ago when my father-in-law was visiting, he and Rabbi Miller 
discovered they were "landsmen." Rabbi Miller's father had come from 
Katerburg in Ukraine, near where my father-in-law's mother came from, and her 
uncle had gone to cheder with Rabbi Miller's father in Katerburg, in the 

At these minyanim, Rabbi Miller would often give drashot, and tell stories 
about the great people he had come in contact with during his life. On more 
than one occasion I urged him to write these stories down or to tape them, 
and I know his children suggested this too, but I don't think he ever did. 
Characteristically, he was worried that some of the stories might put some of 
the people in them in a bad light. Still, the stories are of such great 
historical interest that I wish he had recorded them. Many of the stories 
concerned Rav Soloveitchik, whom he often accompanied to meetings in his 
capacity as VP of YU.  

One of my favorite stories concerns the only meeting ever held between Rav 
Soloveichik and Menachem Begin, which Rabbi Miller was present at. Begin, who 
was visiting New York, was willing to travel to Boston to see the Rav, but 
the Rav felt that, given Begin's position as Prime Minister of Israel, it 
would be more appropriate for him to travel to New York to see Begin. When 
they finally met, the two of them did not discuss politics, as Rabbi Miller 
had expected. Instead, Begin reminisced about his youth in Brisk. The Rav's 
grandfather, Rav Chaim Brisker, an anti-Zionist, would often throw Begin out 
of the shul for his Zionist activities.

Rabbi Miller was also present at the only post-war meeting between Rav 
Soloveitchik and the Lubavitcher Rebbe. (In the 1930s, they had been students 
together in Berlin.) I believe it was in 1961, when the Rebbe was sitting 
shiva for his mother. They did not reminisce at all, but had a brief 
discussion about some aspect of the dinim of aveilus. I'm sorry I don't 
remember the details.

Rabbi Miller first learned of Israel's declaring independence when he was 
making havdalah at his shul in the Bronx, and he made a shehechyanu. The next 
year he visited the new State of Israel. In his youth, as he later described 
it, he was not embarrassed to make visits to all the famous rebbeim, 
including the Chazon Ish, I think, and R. Velvil Brisker (Soloveitchik), the 
Rav's uncle. R. Velvil, a staunch anti-Zionist, suspiciously asked him, "Did 
you come here to honor the state?" Rabbi Miller, not wanting to offend R. 
Velvil but not wanting to lie to him, replied "We came to honor Jerusalem."

Although it may seem minor compared to all his accomplishments, one thing 
that sticks in my memory is the appearance Rabbi Miller made on "Sixty 
Minutes," during his tenure as chairman of the Conference of Presidents. Mike 
Wallace was doing a piece on the incident several years ago when Arabs 
started tossing stones down on Jews praying at the Kotel.  As usual, he tried 
to make Israel look like the villain, instead of the victim. I have never, 
before or since, seen anyone stand up to Mike Wallace as effectively as Rabbi 
Miller did. It was thrilling!  At one dramatic moment, he reminded Wallace 
(who is Jewish and grew up in Brookline), that if things had been only a 
little a different, and their parents or grandparents had not come to 
America, they would likely have died in the Holocaust when they were young, 
instead of appearing on Sixty Minutes.

All four of Rabbi Miller's children followed in his footsteps, making major 
contributions to the public life of the Jewish community, in Israel or in the 
United States. I know he was very proud of them, and of his grandchildren. 
Two of them have lived in Israel for many years, and Rabbi Miller and his 
wife made aliyah a few years ago, after he retired from YU, and lived in Har 
Nof in Jerusalem. I'll miss his warm personality and smile, as much as the 
larger community will miss the benefit of his many talents.

Mike Gerver
Raanana, Israel


From: Michael J. Savitz <msavitz@...>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:49:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Tal Umatar

> From: Zvi Greenberg <harold.greenberg@...>

> For those who are troubled that they are not saying "tal Umatar" 60
> days after the fall equinox, there is a simple solution.  Move to
> Israel where we begin to say it on the seventh of Marcheshvan - no
> problem.

I have been told that this is because 7 Marcheshvan is 2 weeks after
Shemini Atzeret, thus giving those who had come to Yerushalayim for the
chag 2 weeks to get home before we start praying for rain, which would
make their journey home more difficult.

By this logic, why wouldn't we (in Eretz Yisrael, at least) _stop_
saying tal umatar 2 weeks _before_ Pesach, rather than on Pesach itself,
so that we are not praying for rain while people are making their way to


From: Gil Student <gil_student@...>
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:31:18 -0500
Subject: Torah Reading by a Minor

R. David Luria (Radal) has an extensive responsum printed in the back of
his popular edition of Pirkei deRabbi Eliezer in which he legitimates
the custom of allowing minors to read from the Torah.

Gil Student


From: Steven Pudell <Spudell@...>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:29:40 -0500
Subject: Re: Unmarried Men wearing Talis

just an interesting note: regarding the previous comment, my friend told
me that his rav poskened upon his divorce that he did not have to wear a
tallis.  Presumably this is so that people should see that he is single.
(there may be other reasons as well of course)

From: Gil Student <gil_student@...>
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:29:56 -0500
Subject: Unmarried Men wearing Talis

I have a ba'al teshuvah friend of non-German descent who, when he became
frum, started wearing a tallis.  When he was in R. Mordechai Willig's
shiur in YU, R. Willig strongly advised him to do hataras nedarim and
stop wearing a tallis until he got married.

Gil Student


From: Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz <sabbahem@...>
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:49:00 -0500
Subject: RE: Wine

>From: Leona Kroll <leona_kroll@...>
>When does wine become problematic? I would say that by Chassidim (and
>possibly others)- post-crushing, since Chassidim are careful not only
>about wine but also about other grape products (ie- some will not drink
>stout beer because it has grape skin extract in it, and since it is
>extracted after the grapes are crushed for wine, its problematic).

I had asked my Rabbi this, and IIRC he said that it is as soon as the
juice flows into the container (as a result of the crushing).  I think
he quoted a mishna on this matter.

Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz - <sabbahem@...>


From: Joseph Mosseri <JMosseri@...>
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:34:35 -0500
Subject: Zvi Zohar Class - april 7

You Are Cordially Invited To Attend a Special Class To Be Given By Our
Good Friend

The Eminent Professor Dr. Zvi Zohar of Bar Ilan University and the
Shalom Hartman Institute

"Sephardic Rabbis of the Middle East Take On the Modern World"

Please Note: Class Will be in English - Texts Discussed [See Attachment
(contact Joseph for attachments - Mod.)] Will be in Hebrew

The Class Will Take Place on Sunday, April 7 at 9:00 A.M. Sharp

At the Shasha Home
1156 East 5th Street

Please e-mail Me to Confirm Your Attendance
If You Wish to Invite Others Please Forward Their e-mail Address to Me


End of Volume 36 Issue 16