Volume 37 Number 49
                 Produced: Wed Oct 23  6:10:34 US/Eastern 2002

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Artscroll Israeli version
         [Carl Singer]
Artscroll Products and questions about a Stone Chumash comment
         [Avram Montag]
Bat Kohen
         [Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz]
Business Ethics
         [I Kasdan]
Cross Community movement of Minhagim (2)
         [Joel Rich, Yisrael and Batya Medad]
High Holiday Prayers
         [Yehonatan and Randy Chipman]
Looking for Ba'al Koreh [sic] -- the term is Ba'al Keriah
         [Gilad J. Gevaryahu]
Medical intervention prolonging suffering
         [Mike Gerver]
Pruzbul as legal fiction?
Source of Cohanim
         [Eli Lansey]
Va'yhi or Va'yehiyu
         [Elazar M Teitz]
What is Cypress wine?
         [Robert Israel]


From: <CARLSINGER@...> (Carl Singer)
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 07:18:21 EDT
Subject: Re: Artscroll Israeli version

      Perhaps he was thinking of a *specifically* Israeli version.  But
      if a single edition would integrate both the Israeli and Abroad
      minhagim, the great majority of the changes would involve only
      changes to the instructions (such as skipping Baruch HaShem L'Olam
      and V'Shamru) or minor changes to the text (like adding Morid
      HaTal). The only major changes I can thing of would be for adding
      Duchaning everywhere, for Musaf Chol Hamoed Sukkos, and for Seder
      Bris Milah.

I can see it now --- an ArtScroll Succas Mahzor for both Israel & Chutz
 -- available with wheels for those who find it too heavy to lift.

Seriously -- siddurs with lots of "options" and "pointers" (to shared
teffillahs) lead those unfamiliar either with the davening or the siddur
to make mistakes.  Many of us grew up with siddurs that, for example,
used a single vochedik (weekday) Shemoneh Esrai for Schacharis, Mincha &
Maariv -- it saved ink, but for someone who's not familiar ....  I'm
only one data point, but having grown up with the Tikun Meyer I find
that using the Siddur HaShalem with it's "shared" Shemoneh Esrai is

I see the (obvious) point of, for example, dealing with Yom Tov that
does / does not fall on Shabbos in a compact manner rather than (in the
extreme) having two mahzors.  I don't see the same need or efficiency
for a dual-location siddur or mahzor.

Kol Tov

Carl Singer


From: Avram Montag <avram.montag@...>
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 13:55:24 +0200
Subject: Artscroll Products and questions about a Stone Chumash comment

The ArtScroll siddur is available for sale in Israel in many religious
bookstores. ArtScroll products can also be purchased directly from the
Israeli distributor whose name and phone number appears in the front
matter of their publications.  The prices are a little higher than a
direct conversion of the American list price to shekels, which is much
more expensive that the average price of a siddur or chumash in Israel.

In the commentary in the Stone Chumash on Genesis (14:22) there is
reference to Nedarim 32a explaining why the Jewish people were enslaved
in Egypt. The enslavement was a punishment for Avram's forced drafting
of Talmedei Chachamim into his army in the pursuit of Lot's captors.  In
the Talmudic text itself, this is reported in the name of Rabbi Elazar,
and it is only one of a number of hypotheses.

This leads me to three questions:
1)	Do other classical Torah commentaries cite this particular text? I
did not see it in a quick look at the Mikraot Gedolot.
2)	What do the Talmudic commentaries say about this? Has anyone
followed the references given in the Maharsha?
3)	Has this text been used in the polemic over the drafting of Yeshiva
students into the Israel defense forces?

Avram Montag
GE Medical Systems Israel Ltd.                   Phone: +972-4-8579327
POB 2071 Tirat Carmel 39120 Israel           Fax:  +972-4-8575593
mailto:<avram.montag@...> <mailto:avram.montag@med.ge.com> 


From: Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz <Sabba.Hillel@...>
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 15:50:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Bat Kohen

> From: Chana Luntz <Chana@...>
> When I indicated surprise, suggesting that it was only the male kohanim
> that were required to stand outside, she insisted that she had always
> been taught that she had to stand outside by her father and husband,
> although she thought that was because she (and presumably her mother and
> also her daughter) were each both a bat kohen and an eishet kohen.  She
> thought maybe it didn't applied in other circumstances (not that she had
> any experience of any).

One reason for this minhag may be because of the effect of the women of
a family becoming tamei mes when the husband and father are kohanim.
There may be a number of minhagim based on the idea of behaving *as if*
we still had a bai hamikdash (bimheirah beyameinu) and requiring konim
(and their families) to be extra careful about taharah.  I say this only
as a matter of logic, not because I have seen anything written about it.

Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz
<sabbahem@...>, Sabba.Hillel@verizon.net


From: I Kasdan <ikasdan@...>
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 11:57:08 -0400
Subject: RE: Business Ethics

Carl Singer posited (mail-jewish Vol. 37 #44)-- -- 

>>Let's later introduce the fact the B is Jewish (and A is not) -- how, if 
at all, should that impact our choice.  >>

For a source that one should favor a Jewish merchant over a non-Jewish one,
see Rashi on Vayikrah 25, 14.


From: <Joelirich@...> (Joel Rich)
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 12:22:22 EDT
Subject: Re: Cross Community movement of Minhagim

> The question is: to what extent has there been cross-community movement
> of minhagim?

How about tikun yahrtzeit in nonchassidic communities?

Joel Rich

From: Yisrael and Batya Medad <ybmedad@...>
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 20:15:15 +0200
Subject: Re: Cross Community movement of Minhagim

      There seems to have been an increase in the number of young
      Ashkenazi couples who have adopted what was, once, a purely
      Sefardi custom, that of a "Shabat Hatan" after the wedding (during
      the week of Sheva Brachot).

Shabbat Sheva Brachot has always been something to be celebrated, even
among Ashkenazim.  Our local rabbi, Rabbi Elchanan Ben Nun, who is
Ashkenaz, says that there's nothing wrong with Ashkenazim making it more
of a celebration than the Shabbat preceding the wedding.

That may be a "special case."  More "problematic" would be the dovening
nusach.  Many Ashkenazim in Israel doven Sefard, and I know of eidot
mizrach who prefer our Ashkenaz shul, even though there's a shul in
Shiloh of the eidot mizrach.  In all honesty, I like to think of it as a
spiritual unification.  The lines between the eidot are blurring, Baruch



From: Yehonatan and Randy Chipman <yonarand@...>
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 14:11:27 +0200
Subject: Re:  High Holiday Prayers

In MJ v37 n 41, Michael Rogovin <rogovin@...> writes:

<<On the subject of high holiday prayers, I notice each year that the
organization of stanzas in certain piyutim which are commonly sung by
the congregation seems incorrect. Most machzors print them as follows:
A BA BA BA   Rather than   AB AB Etc
The example that comes readily to mind is v'chol maminim ("and all
believe"). Look at the parallels in language between the verses (not to
mention the grammatical problem of starting a sentence with
"and"). The pairing as printed and sung just seems wrong to me. The
printed/sung pairing also forces starting and ending with a single
verse, rather than pairing all verses. If paired as I suggest, the
parallels work and there are no dangling stanzas. I was wondering if
anyone else noticed this or felt the same way.>>

      The late Dr. Daniel Goldschmidt, scholar of liturgy, not only
noticed this, he commented on this and printed it the right way in his
Mahzor.  The same criticism applies to "Le-El Orekh Din," "Melekh
Elyon," "Ata Hu Elokeinu," and many others.
     Goldschmidt died at least thirty years ago, and in his lifetime
published a comprehensive two-volume Mahzor le-Rosh Hashana ve-Yom
Kippur with a lengthy introduction, notes, explanations and sources of
all midrashic and other allusions in every single piyyutim, complete
Selihot for Yom Kippur (i.e., inclduing Shaharit, Musaf and Minhah) in
all variant minhagim within Ashkenaz, etc.   His life work also includes
a similar edition of Selihot, of Kinot le-Tisha b"Av, and much more.
     A shorter, smaller version, suitable for actual use in shul, and
with beautiful fonts and graphics, was published five or six years ago.
It's sold, togetehr with Mahzor le-shalosh regalkim, in a beautiful
boxed set.  (No, I'm not a salesman and I don't get any percentages)

    The only drawback is that it's all in Hebrew.  Hopefully, some US
readers will look on this as a stimulis to learn Hebrew.
    (Does anyone still remember the old slogan, "Ivri, Daber Ivrit!"  I
think that's one of the calls of the hour even today.  The world seems
to be getting frummer in terms of observance and dikdukei mitzvot, but
fewer and fewer people who are not Israeli bred and born seem to be
connected to Hebrew culture and language.  Even in Israel, many
religious Anglophones seem to live their lives in an English-speaking
ghetto, and expect the "natives" to accomodate themselves to their

    Yehonatan Chipman, Yerushalayim


From: <Gevaryahu@...> (Gilad J. Gevaryahu)
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 11:13:18 EDT
Subject: Looking for Ba'al Koreh [sic] -- the term is Ba'al Keriah

Ba'al Koreh is a common mistake for the Torah reader instead of Ba'al
Keri'ah. Similarly Ba'al Toke'ah instead of Ba'al Teki'ah. This will be
the equivalent of calling the Sha"tz "Ba'al Mitpalel" instead of Ba'al
Tefilah. The rule is that the construct in Hebrew is "Ba'al + a noun"
and not a verb. (There are hundred of examples from the Mishnah,
Tosefta, the Talmuds and the various Midrashim which can be found in any
good dictionary [Ben-Yehudah,Gur, Even Shoshan, Kena'ani, etc.])

This mistake is common, and I traced it to Eastern European circles
where they were either not too stringent with the Hebrew grammar or
maybe due to the Yiddish influence.

Gilad J. Gevaryahu


From: <MJGerver@...> (Mike Gerver)
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 19:34:08 EDT
Subject: Medical intervention prolonging suffering

A friend, Jewish but not observant, has asked me what halacha has to say 
about using or refraining from using medical intervention in the case of a 
patient who is in pain, or who otherwise has a poor quality of life that is 
not expected to improve. This friend is thinking about her parents, who have 
Alzheimer's. At present their quality of life is still reasonably good, so 
the issue hasn't really come up yet, but she thinks it may come up in the 
future, and wants some basis for making medical decisions.

Can anyone recommend books, in English, on this topic? Can anyone (e-mailing 
me directly) give me the name of a rabbi, or perhaps a rebbitzin, preferrably 
in the Philadelphia area, who could discuss these issues with my friend in 
person, in a sensitive way?

Mike Gerver
Raanana, Israel


From: <chips@...>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 16:48:43 -0700
Subject: Re: Pruzbul as legal fiction?

> From: Nachman Yaakov Ziskind <awacs@...>
> Oh? How many times have you delivered on your Chametz contract? Do you
> expect to EVER deliver? I didn't think so.
> But, legally, the sale makes all the difference in the world. That's why
> it's a legal fiction.

I have "delivered on my Chametz contract" about 5 times in 18 years. It
is no way a 'legal fiction'.

In Halacha, there exists the concept that a transfer of property from
personA to plony can be dependent on plony returning the item to personA
(lulav being the example most have encountered).  Corrections welcomed :-)



From: Eli Lansey <elansey@...>
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 19:41:30 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Re: Source of Cohanim

> I have a question regarding the source of all the Cohanim in our times,
> astounding proportion? If there are 21 million Jews today, then the same
> proportion of Cohanim would mean that there are 35 in the entire Klal
> Yisroel.

If you keep in mind that 10/12ths of the Tribes are no longer around, then
the numbers of cohanim that we have is not so astounding.


From: Elazar M Teitz <remt@...>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 05:11:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Va'yhi or Va'yehiyu

> During the last two weeks of Torah readings, I noticed that the
> text--in describing the life span of various individuals--alternates
> between "vay'hi y'mai" and va'yehiyu y'mai".  Grammatically, it's
> probably more proper to use the plural, since y'mai is plural.  Is
> there any rhyme or reason as to why the singular (va'yehi) is used in
> some cases and the plural (va'yehiyu) in other cases?

        Actually, it's only in B'reishis, not in Noach (where the
expression used is "vaychi," rather thatn "vayihyu y'mei").  In all but
two cases, "vayihyu" is used.  The two of whom it says "vyhi" are
Chanoch and Lemech.

        In light of the Talmudic statement that "vyhi" can indicate
tza'ar (pain or suffering), and as generally explained it is because the
word resembles "vy hi" (woe is it), perhaps it would explain the use of
the term exclusively for those two, who are the only ones of the ten
generations listed who died in their fathers' lifetimes.


From: Robert Israel <israel@...>
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 11:08:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: What is Cypress wine?

Frank Silbermann <fs@...> wrote:
| What is Cyprus wine?  Was it actually imported from Cyprus, or was that
| just the name of a _kind_ of wine?  (If it was imported from Cyprus, how
| did they ensure it hadn't been offered to idols?)

In the ancient world, Cyprus was famous for its wine.  There was a
flourishing Jewish community there until the revolt of 117 CE.  I don't
know if Jews were involved in the local wine industry, but I don't know
why they wouldn't be.  So it's not unreasonable to imagine that this
wine was produced by Jews in Cyprus.

Robert Israel                                <israel@...>
Department of Mathematics        http://www.math.ubc.ca/~israel
University of British Columbia
Vancouver, BC, Canada V6T 1Z2


End of Volume 37 Issue 49