Volume 38 Number 25
                 Produced: Thu Jan  9  7:36:50 US/Eastern 2003

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

2 questions about Musaf
         [Joshua Hosseinof]
Boat or Cruise Ship on Shabbat
         [Elan Adler]
         [Joseph Mosseri]
Good Source for Biblical Measurements
         [Russell J Hendel]
Help in St Maarten
         [Zale Newman]
Middos of the Avos
         [Ira Brandriss]
Minyan on airplane
         [Bob Lansey]
Minyan on Airplanes
         [Seth & Sheri Kadish]
         [Yisrael and Batya Medad]
R. Lau on cloning
         [A Seinfeld]
Yom Kippor
         [Chaim Freedman]


From: Joshua Hosseinof <jh@...>
Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 22:44:52 -0500
Subject: re: 2 questions about Musaf

See Yalkut Yosef (Rav Ovadiah Yosef's son, Rav Yitzchak Yosef) Part 4,
Vol 1 (Hilchot Shabbat) Page367 and 372 for answers to both the
questions.  In summary the answers are:

1. The Zeman Tefilah of Musaf starts from immediately after Shacharit. 

 Sources in the Gemara include Avodah Zarah 4b, which says that one
should not pray Musaf during the first 3 hours of the morning alone on
Rosh Hashannah, implying that the rest of the year this is permitted.

 See also the very first Tosafot of the 4th perek of Masechet Berachot
which says that proper time for Musaf starts immediately after
Shacharit, because the Musaf sacrifices could be brought in the Temple
immediately after the daily sacrifice of the morning, and since Musaf
was enacted to be in place of the Musaf sacrifice, the same should
apply.  So for those who are allowed to pray Shacharit after Amud
hashachar (those who need to go to work early), but before sunrise, they
may also pray Musaf before sunrise.  See also: Rambam 3rd Perek Hilchot
Tefillah, Rosh and Rabeinu Yonah on the same section of Masechet Avodah
Zarah.  Also Tur and Shulchan Aruch 286.  Also Masechet Yoma 33a which
states that the time of the Musaf sacrifice starts immediately in the
morning.  Also Machatzit Hashekel 281 which states that Musaf should be
prayed immediately after Shacharit.

2. Regarding whether to pray Musaf before Shacharit if one will
potentially not be able to pray with the chazarat hashat'"z otherwise,
although one does in fact fulfill the obligation of praying Musaf if one
prays it before Shacharit, this is only b'diavad, and one should not do
them out of order even if one will no longer have a minyan for Musaf.
He brings several Achronim who say that one should not pray them out of
order including: Minchat Yitzchak Vol 6 #36, Vayomer Boaz #5, Tzitz
Eliezer Vol. 8, #13-38, Rivevot Efrayim #202.  He also brings the Be'er
Yitzchak which says that if one comes late to shul one may pray musaf
with the minyan and then pray shacharit "because both Musaf and
Shacharit have only 7 berachot" - which implies then that on Rosh
Chodesh and Chol Hamoed one should not pray them out of order since
shacharit has 19 and musaf 7 and then there are two reasons why to say
shacharit before musaf - "shacharit mekudash v'tadir neged musaf"
i.e. Shacharit has more berachot and shacharit is the more frequent
prayer so it should be said first.  And he finally concludes that the
be'er yitzchak's reason is still not enough for shabbat and even on
shabbat one should still say Shacharit.


From: Elan Adler <eylry@...>
Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 19:27:04 +0000
Subject: Boat or Cruise Ship on Shabbat

I often receive questions regarding the permissibility of being on a
boat or cruise ship on Shabbat. The questions are manifold, i.e., may
one be on a boat on shabbat while it is riding? Can one get off on
shabbat? Get on on shabbat? Are there restrictions related to being on a
ship on shabbat regarding carrying, etc.? Has anyone seen a
comprehensive teshuva on this?

Thank you, Elan Adler 

Rabbi Elan Adler
Baltimore, MD


From: Joseph Mosseri <JMosseri@...>
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 09:10:23 -0500
Subject: Disney/Orlando

I'll be at Disney World and in Orlando Florida in about 2 weeks from
now.  Are there any Kosher Restaurants there? How about Shuls?  And is
there a Mikveh in the area?

Any help is most appreciated.
Joseph Mosseri


From: Russell J Hendel <rjhendel@...>
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 22:51:38 -0500
Subject: RE: Good Source for Biblical Measurements

Ken Archer asked in v38n10 for how you find the ratios between various
Biblical measurements (volume, area etc).

Yair Horowitz does a nice job of answering him.

I just wanted to add that the non-obvious fact that RADACK (Book of
ROOTS) is an excellent source for measurement data. If you look up all
the Biblical words for types of measurement (KAV, SEAH etc) you can
easily make a nice list of ratios. RADACK also gives Talmudic
references. (But it involves some work)

Russell Jay Hendel; http://www.RashiYomi.com/
WEB:   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RashiYomi_Job/
EMAIL: <RashiYomi_Job-subscribe@...>


From: Zale Newman <zale@...>
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 19:48:11 -0500
Subject: Help in St Maarten

Can anyone please tell me if there is a kosher store in Saint Maarten
(either the Dutch or the French side)? If so what is the name? Where is
it located?

There are two restaurants that claim to offer kosher food. Does anyone
know of their legitimacy? I highly doubt their claims.


zale newman


From: <IBrandriss@...> (Ira Brandriss)
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 20:49:47 EST
Subject: Middos of the Avos

     As a basic underpinning of his commentary to Sefer Breishis, and as
a key to his explanation of several broader concepts, the Netziv has a
unique explanation of the individual strengths of the Avos.

      He understands Avraham Avinu to exemplify Torah-learning, which
creates the z'chus for protection from the sword of our enemies;
Yitzchok Avinu to exemplify avodah (worship through offerings or
prayer), which creates the z'chus for material blessings and sustenance;
and Yaakov Avinu to exemplify the pursuit of chesed (kindness), which
creates the z'chus for peace.  See Chumash Ha'mek Davar, Breishis 13:17.
(The Netziv applies these ideas in, e.g., Breishis 14:14; 15:1; 20:18;
21:3; 26:5; 28:13; 28:19; 30:29; 31:4; 31:46;32:26; 34:1; 48:16; 49:24;
and Shmos 3:6.)

      This approach varies significantly from the formulation that, in
my experience, is the most commonly quoted trifurcation of the middos of
the Avos: Avraham epitomizes chesed, Yitzchok epitomizes yirah or
gevurah (fear of G-d or strength and self-restraint), and Yaakov
epitomizes emes (truth) orTorah.  Other, kindred formulations have
Avraham, Yitzchok, and Yaakov corresponding to the middos of Gadol,
Gibbor, and Norah (or Tiferes), respectively.  In particular, the Netziv
seems to understand Avraham and Yaakov as representing the opposite of
the middos they are usually cited to represent.

      It is puzzling to me that, at least as far as I have seen, the
Netziv does not even acknowledge these other formulations, much less
justify his departure from them.  (Contrast this with the many occasions
in which he does explain why he cannot accept the standard or classical
approach to a particular issue.)  Can anyone tell me if there is
literature commenting on this?

      I am also looking for the earliest sources of these other
formulations, in both kabbalistic and non-kabbalistic literature.  (I
have heard people quote the pasuk at the end of Micha, "Titein emes
l'Yaakov, chesed l'Avraham . . ." in this vein.  Based on the simple
pshat of the pasuk, it does not seem on its face to be particularly
compelling.  Do any of the early sources cite it?)  Is it possible that
my assumption about the commonly-accepted status of these forumlations
is wrong?

      Thanks for any help you can provide.

Ira Brandriss


From: Bob Lansey <rlansey@...>
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 01:58:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Minyan on airplane

I am visiting Yeshivat Har Etzion and I just asked Rav Aharon
Lichtenstein about davening with a minyan during an airplane flight. He
said that it's not the ideal place to daven, but if there is no other
choice then it's preferable to daven with a minyan. However, he has a
concern if it's in the middle of the night and you are disturbing other
people. He also said that it bothers him when people have an opportunity
to daven in Eretz Yisroel before leaving on a flight and are more
concerned with their baggage than davening one more time in Eretz
Yisroel, and daven on the plane instead.


From: Seth & Sheri Kadish <skadish@...>
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 22:09:58 +0200
Subject: Minyan on Airplanes

I noticed the postings about minyanim on airplanes.  It seems to me that
a basic point has been missed: in principle, there cannot be an overall
decision about what it is right to do which is true for all, for the
simple reason that the halakhah obligates people to make *individual*
decisions about places and times that interfere with kavvanat ha-lev
(see Orah Hayyim 94:4), especially for situations that make it nearly
impossible.  I.e. some people may really be able to davven in an
airplane minyan.  That's fine (as long as the minyan exhibits derekh
eretz to the passengers and crew).  But if a person is quite certain
that he cannot have kavvana in an airplane minyan but he may very well
have kavvana if he remains in his seat, then that is what he should do.
It depends on the person, place, and time.

To the point is a teshuva by R. Ovadia Yosef in Yabia Omer 9:5
(le-havdil see my Kavvana book pp. 30-32): A person is stuck on a bus
when it is time for minha.  He normally has kavvana for Avot, but knows
he can have no kavvana on the bus.  R. Ovadia paskens that he need not
say minha and can do tashlumin later.  What is good for buses is good
for airplanes as well!

And even if one does not accept the pesak in that teshuva (perhaps
because he follows the Rema), consider that for most people on planes it
is not a matter of whether or not to davven bazman at all (as in the
question submitted to R. Ovadia), but a matter of *where* to davven (in
your seat or in a problematic minyan).

After my book came out, R. Ari Marcus (now at Reshit Yerushalayim) told
me that R. Shlomoh Wolbe disapproved of airplane minyanim for this
reason.  (I haven't checked the reference though.)

I conclude by urging people in hutz la-aretz to fly to Israel as much as
they can, and when you come you are welcome to visit us in Karmiel!

Seth (Avi) Kadish


From: Yisrael and Batya Medad <ybmedad@...>
Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 21:38:20 +0200
Subject: Musaf

Regarding Yehonatan's query on Musaf

The sefer, Ishai Yisrael, 30:22, notes that if one has not said
Shacharit, the Tashlumin [make-up] for it cannot be said during Musaf
but rather only in the Mincha prayer.  And if one didn't manage to pray
both Shacharit and Musaf, then the order is Mincha, Musaf and then
Shacharit.  And if the day has passed altogether, then there is no
Tashlumin for Musaf at all.

In 37:87,"if one arrives at the synagogue late and finds the
congregation about to begin Mussaf, and he has not yet prayed Shacharit,
he must start with Shacharit...  but b'di'eved, if he prayed musaf so as
to be with a minyan and then Shacharit, he fulfilled his obligation.
37:88 notes that whatever the K'dusha being said, no matter what the
individual is praying, he should say the text of the Chazan's K'dusha
even if it is different from that which Amidah he is reciting


From: A Seinfeld <ASeinfeld@...>
Date: Sun,  5 Jan 2003 20:52:36 -0600
Subject: Re: R. Lau on cloning

The writer suggested that one could derive an opinion on pacemakers from
R. Lau's statement on cloning. However, pacemakers prolong life, R. Lau
specifically berated "shortening life, cloning, or creating life in an
unnatural way".

According to the Raelian literature, they are promoting cloning
specifically and conscientiously within an atheistic paradigm, for which
the recent press conferences were a successful PR ploy.

How about within a theistic context? Indeed, R. Aryeh Kaplan in one of
his essays speculates that tekhias ha-mayseem (the ressurrection of the
dead) will be a joint effort bewteen humanity and God - we'll clone the
bodies and God will add the neshama (soul).

Alexander Seinfeld


From: <JFreed515@...> (Chaim Freedman)
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 13:19:58 EST
Subject: Yom Kippor

Yom Kippor has always been observed for one day, because of the fasting.

But, how did our ancestors in the Diaspora know which day? In those days
Elul could have been a 29 or a 30 day month, so they would not know which
day of Rosh Hashanh was the first day of Tisrei. Yom Kippor is the 10th
day from which day of Rosh Hashanah, the first or the second? In Israel,
what if they determined that Elul was a thirty month would they count
from the second day of Rosh Hashanah? In the Diaspora they would not
learn this in time.

I would appreciate your answer asap, since I need this for my D'var
Torah, this Shabbos, Parshat Bo.

Chaim Freedman


End of Volume 38 Issue 25