Volume 40 Number 34
                 Produced: Wed Aug  6 11:44:47 US/Eastern 2003

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Carrying and Yom Tov
         [Binyomin Segal]
Carrying on Yom Tov
         [Sam Saal]
Dam Betulim
         [Joseph Rosen]
Drisha programs for Tisha B'Av, High Holy Days
         [Freda B Birnbaum]
Eruv and Yom Tov
         [Jack Gross]
Halakha Kebasra
         [Ben Katz]
Keys and Yom Tov
         [Sammy Finkelman]
Rav and Rabbi
         [Martin D Stern]
Use of the Revadim Method in our Schools
         [Lawrence Feldman]
Yiddish Culture in French Occupied Zone Camps
         [Pnina Rosenberg]


From: Binyomin Segal <bsegal@...>
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 10:17:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Carrying and Yom Tov

Reb David'

> I think you are conflating muktze (the car keys have no Yom Tov purpose
> and therefore cannot be moved) with hotzaah (carrying from domain to
> domain or 4 amot in public domain) which would be a prohibition even if
> the item had a legitimate purpose (e.g.  cannot carry tallit to shul on
> Shabbt unless there is an eruv) I do not believe that rav Moshe would
> allow you to carry those car keys on Yom Tov with an eruv.

I think a careful read of Reb Moshe's tshuva will make it clear that
this is not the case. He is talking about a key ring that has a car key
and a house key. It is clear from his tshuva that he does NOT assume the
ring is muktze. Rather, he is explicitly dealing with the issue of
whether one can carry outside an unneeded item which is part
of/connected to a needed one. He specifically addresses Rav Neurwith who
assumes one can carry them outside. The whole discussion is how it is
similar/dissimilar to a pack of cigarettes with extra cigarettes in it.

To summarize, this tshuva is a clear source for an item that while some
may choose to carry it on yom tov, it is a violation of the issur
hotzaa. While there are other opinions (though Rav Neurwith is probably
not a good one to cite, since he bases himself on a previous tshuva of
Rav Moshe, that Rav Moshe explicitly rejects in this context), and it
seems to me that the minhag is like these other opinions, nonetheless,
this tshuva certainly gives weight to the desire to have an eruv on yom

Really, I recommend you read the tshuva.

kol tuv,


From: Sam Saal <ssaal@...>
Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 09:58:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: RE: Carrying on Yom Tov

in mj v40n29 Immanuel Burton <IBURTON@...> wrote:

>I remember we discussed in school whether a blind man may carry his
>white stick on Shabbos, as he is physically capable of walking without
>one.  Our teacher told us that since psychologically he needs his white
>stick, he may carry it on Shabbos.  This reasoning may be extendable to
>include someone who's not that steady on their feet and would feel
>better having a stick to hand.

Why would the obstacles which a blind man avoids by using his white
stick suddenly disappear just because it was Shabbat? I'm very curious
to what element of psychology (I assume not pop-psychology) your teacher
was referring.

By the same token, once someone feels unsteady enough on his feet to
overcomme the embarrassment of needing a cane, I strongly doubt this is
an issue of psycholgy. Speaking as someone who has crossed that boundary
- thank God, in both directions - any psychological need is strongly
trumped by the desire not to have to use a cane.

Sam Saal


From: Joseph Rosen <rosenjoseph1@...>
Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 11:44:55 +0000
Subject: Dam Betulim

A friend of mine will be getting married soon. He is studying the laws
of Niddah with a local rav (a fairly charedi rav). This rav told him
that if the gynecologist tells his wife that her hymen is intact, then
she doesn't have to worry about dam betulim, even if she bleeds. If she
no longer has a hymen she also doesn't have to worry about it. The only
time she would have to separate from her new husband after first
intercourse is if she has no hymen and she bled.  Has anyone heard of
this shitah before?

       Yosef Rosen


From: Freda B Birnbaum <fbb6@...>
Subject: Drisha programs for Tisha B'Av, High Holy Days 

I've just received this announcement from Drisha.  Having just spent the
summer taking some great courses there, I can say with confidence that the
programs are very worthwhile.

Freda Birnbaum

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:57:56 -0400
From: Judith Tenzer <jtenzer@...>

Tisha B'Av with the Students and Faculty of Drisha
Spend a meaningful Tisha B'Av at Drisha Institute for Jewish Education.
Study Kinot from 10:00 a.m. until 2:00 p.m. with the faculty and
students of Drisha. From 2:00 to 5:00 there will be three special
2:00 - The Lonely City in Eichah, Chapter 1 - Shalom Holtz
3:00 - Whose Fault is it? Rabbinic Challenges to Divine Judgment - Wendy
4:00 - God's Personality in Eichah Rabbah - Jonathan Stein

The Stanley Rudoff Memorial High Holy Days Lecture Series
The first two Rudoff Memorial lectures will take place on Sunday,
September 14
4:30 p.m. - Shoes and Teshuva: Rhyme or Reason - Joshua Rudoff
5:45 p.m. - The Symbolic and Halakhic Nature of the Mitzvah of Shofar -
Dov Linzer
On Tuesday, September 30 at 7:00 p.m. Avi Weiss will deliver this year's
closing Rudoff lecture, a Teshuva Derasha.

The Renee and Alexander Bohm Memorial Lecture
Why Did the Angels Weep at the Akedah? is the title of James Kugel's
lecture, to take place on Tuesday, September 23 at 7:00 p.m.  The Renee
and Alexander Bohm Memorial Lecture is sponsored by their grandchildren,
Elissa S. Shay and Daniel J. Ordan.

Lunch-and-Learn with Zvi Grumet
Drisha's High Holy Days Program will conclude with two lunch-and-learns
with Zvi Grumet. The first will take place on Thursday, September 25,
12:30 - 2:00 p.m. on The Akedah: Did Avraham Pass the Test? The second
will be on Thursday, October 2, 12:30 - 2:00 p.m. The cost is $12 per
class; $10 for full-time students and teachers. Pre-registration is
recommended. http://www.drisha.org/events/events.htm#4

Fall Semester Begins September 8
The Drisha catalogue will be online at www.drisha.org
<http://www.drisha.org/>  as well as in the mail the first week in
August. Courses include daytime and evening Biblical Hebrew, Advanced
Level Halakha classes on Laws of a Meal and on Laws of Bishul (Cooking),
Foundations of Hasidut, Medical Ethics, and three levels of Parshanut
(study of Biblical commentaries) including a new preparatory class for

For information about any of these programs, please feel free to contact
We look forward to seeing you at Drisha!
Shabbat Shalom,
Judith Tenzer, Program Director
Drisha Institute for Jewish Education


From: Jack Gross <jbgross@...>
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 21:45:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Eruv and Yom Tov

<<My big annoyance is with the city I mentioned in my first post on this
topic, where the Jewish Community owns the area of the Eruv *only* for
the Sabbaths of the the year, plus any Yom Tov which falls on Shabbos,
plus Yom Kippur. Such explicit language renders the Eruv as ineffective
on a weekday Yom Tov even if all the poles and strings are intact. This
bothers me very much, because with a truly negligible amount of effort
-- changing a few words in the written documents -- the Eruv *would* be
effective on Yom Tov. My only guess is that the rabbis of that city do
not hold like the Rama, but rather hold like the Mechaber, that even
totally unneeded items may be carried outside on Yom Tov.>>

The eruv for Shabbos must ovecome two obstacles:

- There must be a suitable physical enclosure (generally achieved by
Tzuras Pesach) encompassing the houses and the public areas.

- There must be Eruv or Shittuf (joint and excludive ownership) by the
observant Jewish residents -- including elimination of the financial
interest of residents who are not subject to or do not abide by the laws
of hotzaa.

Most rishonim hold that the former applies on Yom Tov, but not the


From: Ben Katz <bkatz@...>
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 16:47:08 -0500
Subject: Re: Halakha Kebasra

>From: Ira L. Jacobson <laser@...>
> >The views of rishonim take precendence over those of achronim,
>How does this fit in with the saying "halakha kebasra"?

         I believe the traditional answer is that within a period
halacha kebasra (so a 3rd generation amora takes precedence over a first
generation, because he knew the earlier opinion and rejected it) but
that since later eras are thought to be farther removed from the mesora
that individuals from later periods (with rare exceptions) do not take
precedence over earlier individuals from earlier eras.


From: Sammy Finkelman <sammy.finkelman@...>
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 03 12:05:00 -0400
Subject: Keys and Yom Tov

I should point out here that the more keys you have (up to a limit) the
more you diminish the possibility of losing the keys. You are far more
likely to lose one key alone, or a ring of two or three keys than a ring
of many keys. And it has been said here that carrying somethinbg in
order to avoid losing something is a good enough reason for carrying on
Yom Tov.


From: <MDSternM7@...> (Martin D Stern)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 01:24:42 EDT
Subject: Re: Rav and Rabbi

In a message dated 30/7/03 8:33:10 am, I wrote:

<<Since terminology has changed since talmudic times, proofs based on
those used then cannot be applied to the present day situation where,
generally, Rav is considered superior to Rabbi because of the usurpation
of the latter title for their clergy by the Reform and Conservative
movements. >>

    In 12 October 1989, an article I wrote on the latter topic was
published in the (London) Jewish Tribune which I found has subsequently
been posted under the heading "Reform Judaism" on the Internet by a
Dutch organisation called Zonnet. It can be reached in English (as well
as Dutch translation as Liberaal 'Jodendom' for those remaining Dutch
settlers in New Amsterdam!) at http://www.home.zonnet.nl/shamash/

    Yours sincerely

    Martin D Stern


From: Lawrence Feldman <lpf1836@...>
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 07:08:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Use of the Revadim Method in our Schools

I recently attended a four-day seminar at Bar-Ilan University on the
Revadim method for the study of torah she'b'al'peh.

Although this may be a gross simplification, the Revadim method involves
approaching a new gemara topic by first explicitly making the sort of
historical and textual analysis that an experienced Talmud student might
implicitly perform. This 'breakdown' of the text allows the student to
separately analyze the contributions to the Talmudic discussion made by
Tanaim and Amoraim, as well as the 'internal commentary' by the
Stammaim, the redactors of the Talmud. In addition, the student thus may
note the historical progression of contributions to the text within each
time period.

The goals of the Revadim project are that beginning with the study of
mishnah in elementary school, through Talmud studies in higher grades,
students should acquire specific skills each step of the way, and upon
finishing high school, should be able to learn a new gemara topic
themselves. The educators who are affiliated with the Revadim project
are in the process of developing texts and other study materials for
teaching torah she'ba'al'peh using their methods.

I attended the seminar along with several others from my yishuv, and
although I can only speak for myself, I think I can safely say that we
all came away from the seminar convinced that adoption of the method by
our schools could only promote the instruction of torah
she'b'al'peh. One of our members, in fact, immediately looked into
acquiring Revadim study materials so that he could use them to learn
gemara with his son using the method during the remainder of summer
break. I, for one, cannot fathom why Revadim has generated much
controversy in Israel over the last several months, specifically in the
religious Zionist camp (see, for example, the discussion on the Hazofeh
website whose link appears on the Revadim page).

According to Rabbi Hayman, who heads the Revadim project at Bar-Ilan,
the method has been implemented in several Israeli schools, from
elementary grades through yeshivot hesder, and not only have the results
so far been encouraging, but students also report that they enjoy
mishnah or talmud study far more using Revadim.

For additional information on Revadim, visit their website,

Lawrence Feldman

To: <mail-jewish@...>

From: Pnina Rosenberg <danielron@...>
Subject: Yiddish Culture in French Occupied Zone Camps

I am doing a post-doctorat research on the the above mentioned subject.
My research embraces the Yiddish cultural activities in the major camps
in France Occupied Zone and deals with clandestine press, theater and

I am looking for the original version ( I have the French translation)
of a play written in Beaune-la-Rolande camp Die Reform written by Moishe
Kinman (artist in the inter-war Yiddish Parisian theater PIAT). I am
also looking for more clandestine press published in those camps.

Any assistice will be of utmost importance and will be credited.
Many thanks
Dr Pnina Rosenberg


End of Volume 40 Issue 34