Volume 40 Number 45
                 Produced: Tue Aug 26  7:17:43 US/Eastern 2003

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Abstain from any Involvement with Women
         [Gilad J. Gevaryahu]
Amalek Hypothesis
         [Jonah Bossewitch]
Blessings of Thanksgiving
         [Alex Heppenheimer]
Bugs in Corn-on-the-Cob
         [David Ziants]
         [Benschar, Tal S.]
Falsifying Torah
         [Russell J Hendel]
Living with an married woman = pre marital-sex
         [Shlomo Pick]
NCSY Director wanted
         [Morissa Rubin]
New S'ridey Eish Publications (2)
         [Gil Student, A.-M. et B. Geller]
Ultra Orthodox
         [Harlan Braude]


From: <Gevaryahu@...> (Gilad J. Gevaryahu)
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 10:28:39 EDT
Subject: Abstain from any Involvement with Women

  Rena Freedenberg (MJv40n44) said:

      One has nothing to do with the other. You have confused two very
      different aspects of Jewish life. Pirkei Avos [NOT "just" some
      people, mind you] warn men to limit their CONVERSATION with their
      wives and kal v'chomer with other women. The wording that the
      mishna uses is "al tarbeh sichah" - meaning to minimize

I would like to call the attention of the group to variation of this
Mishnah as found in an MS, a variation that makes a lot of sense. "al
tarbeh sicha im ha-isha KESHE-HI NIDA" (source: Ginze Mishnah, Katsh,
Jerusalem 1970). If indeed this reading is the authentic reading of this
Mishnah of Pirkei Avot, it does change the substance of Rena's comment.

Gilad J. Gevaryahu


From: Jonah Bossewitch <jonah.bossewitch@...>
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 09:57:45 -0400
Subject: Amalek Hypothesis


Can someone please point me in the direction of traditional literature
that speculates on the identity of the nation of amalek?

Rafael Bossewitch


From: Alex Heppenheimer <aheppenh@...>
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 08:20:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Blessings of Thanksgiving

In MJ 40:43, Perry Zamek <jerusalem@...> asked:

> What if one is a contestant on one of those "Millionaire" games. At
> each stage, the contestant wins a certain amount (doubling, 
> approximately, for each level). Is the contestant required to make a 
> bracha each time he jumps a level during the same show (i.e. when he 
> hear's "You've won $50,000" and again when he is told "You've now won
> $100,000")?

If I recall the rules correctly, there are only three points in the game
where your winnings are guaranteed: after the fifth, tenth, and
fifteenth rounds (as well as if you choose to walk away with your
current winnings at any other time). At any of the other rounds, you can
end up losing some or all of what you've won if you get a wrong
answer. So I would venture that there can certainly be no question of
saying a berachah for each individual level in this game.

Furthermore, Mishnah Berurah 223:2 states that if one hears several
pieces of good news all at once, then one berachah covers all of them;
and in Shaar HaTziyun there (sec. 2) he opines that this applies even if
they weren't literally "all at once," just that he hadn't yet recited a
berachah for the first one. So it would seem to me that the contestant
should hold off on the berachah until the end, and then make one
berachah for all of his or her winnings.

Kol tuv,


From: David Ziants <dziants@...>
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 00:31:27 +0300
Subject: Bugs in Corn-on-the-Cob

Recently, a notification put out by the Rabbanut HaRashit (Israel Chief
Rabbinate) was placed on our shul notice board concerning insects/ bugs
in "corn on the cob".

To summarise, the best I can:


Laboratory tests over several years have shown that corn on the cob,
whether raw, frozen or preserved, are very commonly infected with bugs
that are called (in Hebrew) "trippasim & akariot" [what are these in
English? DZ]. This can be up to 70-80% in one cluster Also sometimes 20
types of bugs in one cluster. [Hebrew: "b'gidul echad"- I assume
"cluster" is the correct English term for this - DZ].

The most common bugs are the "trippasim", which hide themselves and make
their way into the cob as one peals the leaves of the cob.  The bugs are
not so common with the "g'madim" (dwarf) cobs.  Usually no problems with
sweet corn in a can, frozen etc. where the kernels have been separated
from the cob and factory washed.

Because of the bug problem, one must not cook corn on the cob, but must
separate the kernels first from the cob, rinse them in water, and then
cook them without the cob. Corn on the cob that is allowed to be cooked,
are the bug-less variety [I suppose "gush katif" style - DZ] that is
being made available on the market.

>>> End of summary.

The point of my posting here is that this is the first time I heard of
this problem, and am wondering if anyone can shed more light on the
issues. Is this just a problem in Israel and hot climates, or does it
also exist in cold climates?

On discussing it with people around me, I have heard that it is a
relatively recent discovery. It was suggested to me that it might not be
as strict as the notification implies because the bugs, which cannot be
seen on the surface of the corn, run deeper inside the cob, thus one is
not going to eat any bugs when the corn-on-the cob is cooked.

It is known that a whole bug cannot be battel b'shishim (annulled as
less than one part in sixty), but maybe any "flavour" that might emanate
from the bugs that hid inside the cob can be ???

Can anyone tell me please if the above argument, I presented, is
halachically correct (and under what authority) at least b'dieved
(post-facto). If there is no heter to eat corn on the cob (unless it is
the special bug-less variety), why this has not been widely known until
now, like it is known that non-Gush-Katif lettuce has to be soaked and

I appreciate that we are playing around with a d'oraita (law directly
from written Torah) here, and this is why the matter is bothering me a
lot. I hope my posting doesn't open up a can of too many worms


Am happy to receive replies, both on or off the list. If you chose to
post to the list, would be happy to receive a CC of the posting, if you
are able to, so I don't have to wait until it is published before I read

David Ziants
Ma'aleh Adumim, Israel


From: Benschar, Tal S. <tbenschar@...>
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 12:26:12 -0400
Subject: Eulogies

"R. Henkin in his moving remembrance of his gradfather writes

At a memorial gathering held in Jerusalem thirty days after his death,
six prominent roshei yeshiva spoke. All of the yeshivas and their
students received support from Ezras Torah, and the bet midrash of the
Chebiner Yeshiva was full. The first rosh yeshiva finished speaking, and
shortly after got up and left, followed by his students. The second rosh
yeshiva spoke at length and he, too, left with his students. And so on,
until at the end only a few people remained. At that point I spoke on
behalf of the family, as a grandson who had learned with R. Henkin for
many years.

I am disturbed that somehow kavod hamet is interpreted as giving an
eulogy and then leaving together with ones students. Is the purpose only
to hear oneself speak or also courtesy to others.

At old RCA conventions RYBS always stayed for the speeches of the other
rabbis mostly his students. Several times they specfically told him that
he did not have to stay because they recognized that as a student they
were not on his level and were wasting his time, nevertheless he
remained.  I have heard similar stories about R. Moshe Feinstein."

This well demonstrates Hazal's adage with respect to Hashem (here
applicable to gedolei yisrael) that in the place where you find His
humility you find His greatness.  Alas that lesser lights than Rav
Soloveichik and Rav Moshe Feinstein did not get the message.


From: Russell J Hendel <rjhendel@...>
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 23:02:34 -0400
Subject: RE: Falsifying Torah

Gil Student (v40n40) deals with the issue of falsifying Torah and cites
Rabbi Frimers article

The ethics of falsifying the Torah is in fact the basis of my article
for preprints if you want).

In that article I argue that the Rambams statement in the Guide to the
Perplexed that sacrifices were written by God in the Torah in order to
wean people away from them(and had no intrinsic value) was not really
Rambams opinion. Rather Rambam deliberately lied in order to save
ignorant Jews who were exposed to hellenistic ideas that the Torah could
not be Divine because of its belief in animal sacrifices.

In the article I show numerous precedents where Rabbis falsified Torah
for the sake of peace or to avert misunderstandings in ignorant people
(eg the infamous translation of the 70 elders of the Torah).  I also
discuss the controversy between Rashi and Rambam on the requirement that
the Sotah should be lied to and told that Reuven actually slept with
Bilhah--the purpose of this lie was to get the Sotah to confess that she
committed adultery.(This observation requires much discussion which is
provided in the article).

In passing I concluded in the article that the controversy between Rashi
and Rambam is on the degree to which one may lie/distort.

Russell Jay Hendel; http://www.RashiYomi.com/


From: Shlomo Pick <picksh@...>
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 18:44:57 -0700
Subject: Living with an married woman = pre marital-sex

Shimon  Lebowitz <shimonl@...> in vol. 40 no 41 suggests that:
> P.S. It just occured to me that since bo`el pnuya (living with an
> unmarried woman) is prohibited by rabbinic law (unless I am mistaken),
> then he really should have no chezkat kashrut halachikally either.

i would like to point out that in two hebrew articles i recently
published, the Rav learned that according to maimonides the prohibition
was d'oraita. see:

Shlomo Pick:

1. Concerning Pre-Marital Relations: A Lecture by the Late Rabbi Joseph
B. Soloveitchik (Based upon Students' Notes), Beit Yitzchak, 34, (5762
[=2002]), p.592-601 [in Hebrew].

2. Concerning the Commandments of Kiddushin and Nesuin, Shma'atan, 149
(Iyyar-Av, 5762/2002), 79-91 [in Hebrew].


From: <morissa.rubin@...> (Morissa Rubin)
Subject: NCSY Director wanted

NCSY Youth Director wanted to serve two Modern Orthodox synagogues in
Northern California (Oakland and Sacramento). If interested please
contact Rabbi Judah Dardik, Congregation Beth Jacob, Oakland @
510-482-1147, <rabbi@...> and/or Rabbi Yossi Etz-Hasadeh, Kenesset
Israel Torah Center, Sacramento @ 916-481-1159, <itc1159@...>


From: Gil Student <gil_student@...>
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 14:21:29 -0400
Subject: Re: New S'ridey Eish Publications

Dov Kay wrote:
>Someone told me this new publication is the "politically correct"
>version of the responsa (which were originally published by Mossad
>HaRav Kook). I noticed that the new "Lifrakim" includes the
>biographical note about Rav Yitzchok Yaakov Reines, the founder of the
>Mizrachi movement, indicating that the new publication is not
>"politically correct".

Perhaps the your correspondent meant politically correct from the left
side of the spectrum of Orthodoxy.  The editor of the new versions is
Prof. Marc Shapiro, author of a biography of R' YY Weinberg that some
complained was overly speculative about the great rabbi's motives and
gave insufficient attention to right wing trends in his later life.
See, for example, the review in Jewish Action Fall 5761 by Rabbi Berel
Berkovits (http://www.ou.org/publications/ja/5761fall/BOOKS.PDF).

Gil Student

From: A.-M. et B. Geller <bgeller@...>
Subject: New S'ridey Eish Publications

Dear Dov Kay

I know personnaly the editor of the new S'ridei Eish and Lifrakim
edition, Rabbi Abraham Weingort.

Rav Weingort was the closest talmid of Rav Weinberg after the War (they
were living in Montreux, Switzerland) : Rav Weinberg considered him as a

Rav Weingort would never do anything that could contradict Rav Weinberg
views and spirit.

The new edition of S'ridei Eish includes the integrality of the Tchuvoth
that were previously printed. Nothing has been removed.

An enormous work has been conducted to bring a clean, beautiful and
corrected edition.

Besides correcting thousands of typing errors and references, they
sorted the Tchuvoth to appear in the Shulhan Haroukh order and added
usefull and powerfull indexes (sources, subject and all correspondant's
names ...).Also they added titles and subtitles to every Tchuva.

However the 4th book printed by the Mossad Harav Cook, after his
passing, was a compilation of unrelated subjects. This new edition of
Lifrakim already contains the part dealing with mussar and jewish
philosophy. The Rav Weinberg's Mehrkarim will be plushided separatly.

I know that the first volume of S'ridei Eish's Hidushim al haShas has
been edited by Rav Weingort and the second volume will very soon be

Moreover, as you can see in the first pages of the book, this edition
received the active support of most of contemporary Gdolei Hatorah,
including the moral pillar of our generation, Hagaon Rav Shlomoh Wolbe.

I hope this answer your question.

Bernard Geller, Lausanne (Switzerland)


From: Harlan Braude <hbraude@...>
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 10:01:52 -0400
Subject: RE: Ultra Orthodox

> "ultra orthodox."  I believe he lived at a time pre "Hyphenated"
> Judaism.  Ultra-, Modern-, etc.

While the lack of unity in our nation is very painful, it's hardly a
recent phenomenon. We've had a litany of groupings over time (e.g.,
Prushim, Tsidukim, Kraaim, Biryonim, Baysusim, Maskilim, Misyavnim,
Chassidim & Misnagdim, even Ashkenazim and Sephardim, etc.)

Lamentable? Yes, but nothing new.


End of Volume 40 Issue 45