Volume 40 Number 53
                 Produced: Sun Aug 31 21:12:54 US/Eastern 2003

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Aruch or Aroch
         [Elazar M Teitz]
Bailey's Irish Cream (3)
         [Harry Weiss, Yosef Posen, Zev Sero]
Bugs in Corn-on-the-Cob
         [Yisrael and Batya Medad]
Certified non-kosher
         [Nadine Bonner]
A new Shabbos issue in hotels
         [Sherman Marcus]
Self-heating meals on Shabbat
         [Leah Aharoni]
Should you join the Army?
         [Carl Singer]
Simchat Torah Tunes
         [Alison Foreman]
Use of manuscript varients
         [Michael Kahn]


From: Elazar M Teitz <remt@...>
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 23:51:49 -0400
Subject: Aruch or Aroch

>As a conclusion, I would like to BEG the religious public to stop
>calling R. Yechiel Michal ha-Levi Epstein's code the "ArUch
>ha-Shulchan". It is called the "ArOch ha-Shulchan".  "Aruch ha-Shulchan"
>is grammatically incorrect because of the smichut. Moreover this phrase
>is a quotation from a verse in the book of Isaiah (21:5 if I am not

        "Aroch" is tzivuy [imperative]: "Set the table."  It is used in
that sense in the verse cited.  "Aruch haShulchan" means "the table is
set," and is no more grammatically incorrect than is "Baruch haGever
[blessed is the man]."  I doubt that HaRav Epstein was commanding his
readers to set the table of Jewish Law.  More reasonably, he was stating
that it _was_ set.

        (Parenthetically, Michal is a girl's name.  The author's second
name is Michel, and is essentially pronounced as a one-syllable name,
with a sh'va under the chaf: Mich'l.)


From: Harry Weiss <hjweiss@...>
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 09:18:47 -0700
Subject: Bailey's Irish Cream

>From: <CARATSTONE@...>
>After eating lunch in a 4 star hotel in Israel, I noticed a bottle of
>Bailey's Irish Cream in the bar/restaurant.  After quickly looking at
>the bottle and hebrew writing on the label on the back, I decided to ask
>the mashgiach if it was really kosher, as I have never seen it on an
>approved list in the US.  He told me it is milchig, and that our lunch
>was basari.  I then told him I found it interesting that Bailey's is not
>considered kosher in the US. He responded that not only is it milchig,
>but also treif.  When I asked about the t'eudah Kashrut on the wall, he
>told me that applies only to the food...not to the drinks served in the
>bar.  When I told him I found the hebew on the label confusing (lots of

There is another issue as well.  Bailiey's is listed as not Kosher in
most US alchols lists that I have seen, but is listed as acceptable in
the London Beis Din directory.  Perhaps there are two different runs or
different standards for what is acceptable in the US vs. England.
Israel may have it Bailey's from England.

From: Yosef Posen <jposen@...>
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 15:43:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Bailey's Irish Cream

It is my understanding that while Star-K and others disapprove of
Bailey's Irish Cream, the London Beth Din lists it as dairy (non-cholov
yisrael of course) kosher.

Yosef Posen

From: Zev Sero <zsero@...>
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 05:52:40 -0400
Subject: Bailey's Irish Cream

The NSW Kashrut Authority, http://www.ka.org.au/list/wbl-ukl.htm, citing
the London Beth Din, lists Bailey's as kosher and milchig.

I wonder, though, if this mashgiach thought it was treif, then why did
he originally tell you that it was milchig, and only after being pressed
said it was not kosher.  Are you sure you understood him correctly?

> When I asked about the t'eudah Kashrut on the wall, he
> told me that applies only to the food...not to the drinks served in the
> bar.  When I told him I found the hebew on the label confusing (lots of
> writing but in fact no hechsher) which might lead a casual reader to
> think the hebrew says "kosher", he agreed. 

Doesn't every product in Israel have Hebrew on the label?  Why would
someone in Israel think something was kosher just because it had Hebrew
on the label?  Even the pork (excuse me, the `white meat') has Hebrew
writing, because the manufacturer has to communicate to consumers what
it is, what's in it, what it's good for, how to serve it, etc, and in
what language should it do that but Hebrew?

> How can an establishment
> with T'eudat Kashrut in Jerusalem serve non-kosher product

What does the teudah say?  If the teudah says that the kitchen is
kosher, but the bar is unsupervised, then one shouldn't expect
otherwise.  This is just like establishments in the USA where there is a
teudah for goods in their original packaging, but not for stuff that
they take out and sell one serving at a time, using who knows what
utensils.  Or a manufacturer that has some products under a hechsher,
and some not.  You don't suggest, do you, that no hechsher should be
given to a kosher product unless everything the company sells under its
label is kosher?


From: Yisrael and Batya Medad <ybmedad@...>
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 00:28:44 +0200
Subject: Re: Bugs in Corn-on-the-Cob

When I was a little girl we once went to a science museum I remember a
large picture, round with all sorts of strange squiggly things in it,
certainly nothing I would want to eat.  Guess!!  It was an enlarged drop
of water.  Can these corn bugs be seen with the naked eye?  Or reading
glasses for some of us?  I was taught that if you need a special
magnifying glass or microscope, the bug doesn't count...or we wouldn't
even drink water.



From: Nadine Bonner <nfbonner@...>
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 09:39:20 -0400
Subject: Certified non-kosher

I can't speak to the issue of why a hotel would have kosher
certification if it served non-kosher drinks in the bar, but there are
many non-kosher products available throughout Israel. Non-kosher candy
and chewing gum imported from Italy are very popular. A visitor to
Israel must realize that Hebrew is the language of the country. Hebrew
is on the package not to attest to kashrut, but to list the ingredients
or describe what is inside. Not all Israelis read English.


From: Sherman Marcus <shermanm@...>
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 22:17:12 +0200
Subject: A new Shabbos issue in hotels

Unfortunately, the issue isn't all that new. I noticed that in the web
site for Chabad of Las Vegas, there is information about the hotel
nearest their community.  It includes a warning that the air
conditioners must be disabled before Shabbat because they operate using
motion sensors.

I was actually wondering whether this can be overcome by hanging a
mobile near the a/c vent.  Perhaps the sensors would continuously sense
the motion of the mobile caused by the air flow, and not be affected by
the occupant's entry or exit.  Does anyone know if this is a practical



From: Leah Aharoni <leah25@...>
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 23:53:24 +0200
Subject: Self-heating meals on Shabbat

Thank you for the link to the self-heating meals website. It came in very

The La Briute site explains the reheating method as follows:

	La Bruite Meals contain a patented, flameless, food heater made
of magnesium and iron. When the enclosed salt water packet is opened and
poured onto the heating element it produces real heat and steam right
inside the box, and your meal turns simmering hot in minutes.

As far as I am aware, certain ways of cooking which are not widespread,
established practices might be permissible on Shabbat (for instance
cooking in the sun).

Since this is not a standard, accepted way of cooking, what would be the
status of such meals on Shabbat or Yom Tov (this is a theoretical not
halacha lemaase question ).

Leah Aharoni
English/Hebrew/Russian Translator
Telefax 972-2-9971146, Mobile 972-56-852571
Email <leah25@...>


From: Carl Singer <csngr@...>
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 09:27:22 -0400
Subject: Should you join the Army?

The discussion re: kashrus, etc., in the Army points me to a larger
question -- should you join the Army -- (or military) or more
specifically can an observant Jew survive in the Army and under what
circumstances.  (I'm discussing mechanics -- not patriotism or hakores
ha tov, etc.)

First of all, let's look to the situation of greatest difficulty:

1 - basic training (boot camp for those of you who watch movies) -- as I
mentioned earlier is a 24 x 7 adventure, not prone to indivualism.
You'll need to discuss with a posek what you can and cannot do (re:
Shabbos) and what you can and cannot eat.  The availability of outside
food may be crucial -- or simply resign yourself to living on breakfast
cereal and fresh fruit for 8 weeks.  Nothing cooked will be kosher --
the old army probably used lard to boil water for coffee.

2 - in the field or on a ship -- you will not have access to outside
food -- today things should be easier with kosher MRE's -- so I can't
say -- I found that since old (traif) MRE's had 4 cigarettes in each
container, I could trade cigarettes for fruit.

3 - as a junior enlisted person living in base housing -- there are
issues of food, cooking, etc.  As I mentioned in previous posting, my
niece (an E-3 in the AirForce) was able to get access to her own,
kosher, kitchen unit.  There are myriad also issues of living with folks
who might be a bit different from you (as you are different from them.)

4 - Rank has its privilege -- if you're an officer you may find yourself
in different circumstances. Having spent the last ten years of my career
as a full colonel -- I had the flexibility re: schedule, travel, food
sources, etc., that a junior enlisted person should not expect.

Shabbos is an on-going concern at any rank.  Trading duty assignments,
etc., can help but it depends on your unit's situation and mission.

Chaplains can be helpful but you will need to learn how to deal a Jewish
chaplain who is less observant that you are -- from my experience it's
probably easier to deal with a non-Jewish chaplain.  One of the
correspondents mentioned a Conservative Rabbi / chaplain and that this
Rabbi said certain things were permissible -- that's a tough call -- who
is your posek? -- you don't want to get into a situation where it's his
/ her word against yours -- you will loose on two counts: he's a
chaplain and he out ranks you.  Having said that the Chief chaplain of
Europe is a Jew is from the reform movement -- and I would have no
problem going to him with a problem (not a shailah) as he can and does
understand the needs of Jews whose level of observance is different than
his own.

Recruiters don't really lie -- I resent that old saw -- they are
honorable professionals who try to paint a very positive picture.  And
the overwhelming majority don't know a darn thing about being Jewish or
being an observant Jew.  The few Jews they know socially my not be at
all observant or may simply refrain from eating pork.  To them "kosher"
means a Rabbi said some blessing on it.  And Shabbos is beyond their
understanding.  On the other hand you have to be rather foolish or
irrational to commit to a 3 or 4 year adventure without doing some
serious research.  If one joined the service expecting to get catered
kosher meals then one will be most disappointed.

Consider also, as a parent, that your child has the right to privacy and
it will be enforced.  The Senator's staff was probably right in asking
for wavers.  For example, I know of a situation (during Viet Nam) where
a soldier wrote home to Mother that he was injured in combat and not
getting proper treatment, etc. -- Mom wrote to her congressman (I used
to love "congressional inquiries") -- turns out son was hurt in a
drunken bar room brawl and was incarcerated.  But his right to privacy
precluded the chain of command from telling full details to his Mother.

The U.S. military is an overwhelmingly non-Jewish environment -- like
many parts of America, there will be folks who think Jews killed Jesus
and some still think you may have horns on your head.  I'm serious --the
Army is not like living in a predominantly Jewish community.

Mission (or "the needs of the service") does come first and don't expect
this organization to go way out of its way to make you happy -- you, the
individual soldier are its most valuable asset and you will be treated
with respect and trained to your maximum capability, but that doesn't
assure happiness -- but I can say that about business or even a Yeshiva
-- try going to your yeshiva wearing a plaid jacket and baseball cap --
(or for the women on the list -- try going to shule wearing punk rocker
make-up and a green sheitel) -- and see how your individuality is
accorded respect.



From: Alison Foreman <al4man@...>
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 11:01:14 +1000
Subject: Simchat Torah Tunes

Does anybody know of any resources on the Internet with audio files for
tunes of davening/laining and songs of Simchat Torah (Tefilat HaGeshem,
calling up the Chatan Torah and Bereishit?) and etc?

Thank you,
Alison Foreman and Derek Abrahams


From: Michael Kahn <mi_kahn@...>
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 21:57:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Use of manuscript varients

>I would like to call the attention of the group to variation of this<
>Mishnah as found in an MS, a variation that makes a lot of sense.

I've heard that when it comes to halacha, the Chazon Ish was opposed to
taking hidden sforim (genuzos) into account.


End of Volume 40 Issue 53