Volume 40 Number 54
                 Produced: Mon Sep  1 11:31:50 US/Eastern 2003

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Airline food - not necessarily in emergencies.
         [Harry Weiss]
Airline food in emergencies (2)
         [Meir, Douglas Gershuny]
Aruch or Aroch
         [Emmanuel Ifrah]
Avoiding woman--Standards of Modesty (3)
         [Gil Student, Gershon Dubin, Barak Greenfield, MD]
Hebrew related question
         [Joshua Ben]
Moslem Prayer before Shechita
         [Tzadik Vanderhoof]
Semi-kosher establishments
         [Carl Singer]
Spraying meat with milk protein
         [Batya Medad]


From: Harry Weiss <hjweiss@...>
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 21:49:46 -0700
Subject: Airline food - not necessarily in emergencies.

From: Carl Singer <csngr@...>
> With airlines running on a shoestring and food services handled by many
> vendors and thus prone to lots of errors and disconnects (for those
> airlines still offering food) -- I'd suggest doing what I used to do
> when I was young and foolish and travelled too much -- bring a (plastic)
> jar or peanut butter with you.  It works for breakfast, lunch and dinner
> as well as midnight snack.
> Seriously -- one should consider being self sufficient re: food, when
> traveling.  Even towns with the kosher restaurants or stores are of no
> use if your plane is delayed and you arrive after closing.

I am a fequent traveller and, not living it major market, most of my
flights are connections through the various hub cities.  Carl's
suggestion will work for emergencies, but there could be a better
alterantive available for many cases.  I am sure many Kosher keeping
Jews would be willing to pay for a Kosher TV dinner type meal in an
airport during a major lay over.

If a Jewish entrepaneur could arrange with one or more food
establishment in the major hub airports (Atlanta, Pittsburgh, Chicago,
Minneapolis, Dallas, Phenix, Salt Lake, etc.) to stock microwaveable
kosher meals and published a directory of were they are avialble, I am
sure that many people would take adavantage of this and be willing to
buy these meals.

I often bring all of my own food for a trip, but being able to stop for
a hot meal on some long layovers would be a worhtwhile expense.


From: <meirman@...> (Meir)
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 00:17:34 -0400
Subject: Airline food in emergencies

>From: Carl Singer <csngr@...>
>airlines still offering food) -- I'd suggest doing what I used to do
>when I was young and foolish and travelled too much -- bring a (plastic)
>jar or peanut butter with you.  It works for breakfast, lunch and dinner

Good idea, but remembering what you said about utensils, what is a good plan?

I don't fly much, but am I to understand that if you flew when food was
still given, or if you fly in the future on a plane that gives food and
utensils, you can have a plastic fork and knife, but if you try to bring
the same utensils on-board with you, to go with food that you bring, you
can't (or it will slow you down)?

<meirman@...>  Baltimore, MD, USA

From: Douglas Gershuny <dgershuny@...>
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 01:11:41 -0400
Subject: RE: Airline food in emergencies

Being not so young (and hopefully not so foolish) I also find that a jar
of peanut butter is the best food to bring when trying to maintain
kashrut on the road.  Another good option is to bring a box of granola
bars (Nature's Valley are great).

Doug Gershuny


From: Emmanuel Ifrah <emmanuel_ifrah@...>
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 03:56:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Aruch or Aroch

Obviously, the truth is with the Rav, and what I called erroneously a
"smichut" is indeed a "tzivuy".

However, it would still seem strange to me to pronounce the words
differently from the way they are vocalized in Isaiah.

If it is so, does it also imply that one is to pronounce the name of the
famous commentary on the Shulchan Aruch "Be'er hetev" rather then "Ba'er


From: Gil Student <gil_student@...>
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 21:10:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Avoiding woman--Standards of Modesty

I frequently see people confused about the parameters of these halachos.
I request that everyone who can should review siman 75 in Shulchan
Aruch, Orach Chaim with Mishnah Berurah (or Chayei Adam, siman 4) where
this is clarified.

In brief: There are certain areas that are ervah no matter what and one
cannot recite Shema or a blessing in front of those revealed body parts.
Other areas depend on the custom in that time and place.

Therefore, one can never recite Shema in front of a sleeveless woman.
In front of a gloveless woman depends on the time and place, and I think
in most places in the world today that would be fine.

A married woman's uncovered hair is a machlokes among the poskim.  R'
Moshe Feinstein is lenient while many poskim, particularly Hungarians,
are strict.

[As an aside, the only place I've seen R' Yechiel Michel Epstein's book
called Aroch HaShulchan is in R' David M. Feldman's Birth Control in
Jewish Law.]

Gil Student

From: Gershon Dubin <gershon.dubin@...>
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 08:22:56 -0400
Subject: Avoiding woman--Standards of Modesty

From: Emmanuel Ifrah <emmanuel_ifrah@...>

<<Which shows that halacha CAN differ according to societal norms,
within certain boundaries>>

I said pretty much the same thing; some people have a tendency to think
that all standards of dress are milieu-dependent, which is clearly not

<<As a conclusion, I would like to BEG the religious public to stop
calling R. Yechiel Michal ha-Levi Epstein's code the "ArUch
ha-Shulchan".  It is called the "ArOch ha-Shulchan".  "Aruch

If you start with that, you'll never end <g>; there are many such

From: Warren Burstein <warren@...>

<<Does "usually covered" mean by people now, or people when the halacha
was codified?  Which people - observant Jews or the general

Usually covered means by people who dressed modestly.  If you go back a
few years, say before the middle of the 20th century, you'll find that
there was little difference in standards of modesty between the two
groups you mention.

The idea that women can walk around "covered up" by a few square inches
of cloth is a new phenomenon from an historical perspective.

<<In my Modern-O shul it sometimes happens (generally with guests at
simchas) that some people come with some exposed skin between the neck
and the knees, but certainly dressed acceptably for the general
poplulation.  No one asks them to leave.>>

I never meant that people should be embarrassed by being asked to leave
because they are improperly dressed. But a person who follows halacha
should be aware that a beracha or kerias shema said in front of
inappropriately (per the halacha) exposed skin needs to repeat that
beracha or shema.


From: Barak Greenfield, MD <DocBJG@...>
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 17:52:02 -0400
Subject: RE: Avoiding woman--Standards of Modesty

From: Gershon Dubin <gershon.dubin@...>
> Not true; the parameter is that which is usually covered.  That includes
> anywhere between the neck and knees except the lower arms and hands.
> That many people walk around in the street dressed in a way that would
> have gotten them arrested 100 years ago **at the beach** does not change
> the halacha.

Then what do you mean by "usually covered"?


From: Joshua Ben <josben@...>
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 13:21:21 +0000
Subject: Hebrew related question


I'm a linguist student, and I was wondering if you could help me?

1. Is there such a thing as an Interlinear Bible (or portions thereof)
with the following set up: Hebrew Bible, with Septuagint Greek, with
Peshitta (or Targum) Aramaic, with Vulgate Latin, with (optional)
English (or any modern language) - that is, Greek and/or Aramaic and/or
Latin and/or English - literally underneath the Biblical Hebrew words?
(If not, are there any alternate suggestions, please, or perhaps a
different language set up as I as outlined above exists?)

2. Lastly, why do a majority of the Hebrew letters (as seen in the
Tanach) have a daggesh even though only a few changes pronunciation?



PS. I came across the following old books, but I'm at a loss in how to
find them (either the original if affordable; if not, a copy would do -
preferably in ENGLISH). I wonder if you could help? Thank you in

Malbim. Ayelet Hashachar (about the 613 rules for philological thinking).

Malbim. Ya'ir Ohr (about the 662 synonymous words)?

Wertheimer. Be'ur shemot ha-nirdafim.

Hanover, Nata Nathan ben Moses. Safa Berurah (Italy, 1600s), a dictionary of 
the Hebrew, German, Latin and Italian languages.

Isaac Nathan. Meir Netib (1437-1445), Isaac's translation into Hebrew of 
Arlotto's Latin concordance.

Levita, Elijah. Sefer ha-Harkavah (Venice, early 1500s), which examines
the grammar of every foreign and irregular word in the Bible, listed in
alphabetical order.

Levita, Elijah. Meturgaman (Venice, early 1500s), a Chaldaic and
Rabbinical dictionary.

Levita, Elijah. Tishbi (Venice, early 1500s), a lexicon which defines
712 Aramaic and foreign words used by the Rabbins, and which are
unexplained by previous lexicographers.

Modena, Leon da. Gelut Yehudah (Venice, 1612), a Hebrew-Italian
dictionary.  Modena was the Chief Rabbi of Venice.

Oliveyra, Solomon. Hebrew-Portuguese Dictionary (Amsterdam, late 1600s).

Etz Chayim (Amsterdam, late 1600s), also called Treasury of the Holy
Language, a work containing all the biblical word roots in Hebrew and

Pomis, David de'. Zemah David (Venice, 1587), a trilingual Hebrew,
Latin, and Italian dictionary. This, de' Pomis' most famous work, was
dedicated to Pope Sixtus V.

Urbino, Solomon. Ohel Moed (1480), a dictionary of Hebrew synonyms.

Yechieli, Nathan. Aruk (Rome, 11th-century), a monumental dictionary of
Talmudic and Midrashic terms, serving as the basis for many later
mystical speculations. It included etymologies as well as foreign words
from the Aramaic, Latin, Greek, and Arabic languages.


From: Tzadik Vanderhoof <tzadikv@...>
Subject: Moslem Prayer before Shechita

I once heard shochtim discussing this issue.  Apparently a Moslem group
had requested that the shochtim say the words "Alahu Achbar" (G-d is
great) before shechita.  The shochtim were discussing if that would be
halachically permissable.  I find it interesting that Moslems apparently
do not require the slaughterer to be a Moslem or to require a Moslem to
supervise.  It really don't know much about Islam, but it seems they are
in effect accepting the "aidus" (word) of a non-Moslem, which I would
not normally expect.


From: Carl Singer <csngr@...>
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 07:49:58 -0400
Subject: Semi-kosher establishments

>Our favorite vegetarian restaurant -- the Shangri-La on Irving St.,
>almost across from Tel Aviv Kosher Meats (no relationship) -- has a
>hechsher letter on every table, in English, written by the pre-eminent
>Orthodox rabbi in the area.  The letter makes it clear that the
>fortune-cookies are to be considered dairy, and that the wine list is
>not kosher.  It is common for kippah-wearing families to eat at the
>Shangri-La, but I'm sure that there are probably others who might not.
>All that's required, it seems, is proper notification when the
>non-kosher food is separately packaged.  Bottled wine and liquor, etc.,
>is separately packaged, and not mixed into anything else, so there is
>really no reason why a person who keeps kosher can't just avoid it.

I don't think the halacha changes in these circumstances -- but one
likely can set different standards for their choices based on where they
are.  If the only "kosher" restaurant in town is as described above you
have different choices than those who live in a town that has several
kosher restaurants, etc.  One might therefore behave differently (make
different choices) in Jerusalem and San Francisco.  Similarly, living in
a community without any kosher restaurants, one doesn't worry about such

Last night, Motzei Shabbos, we went to a nearby kosher pizza shop with
friends from a community that has no kosher restaurants.  They were
overwhelmed by what we blase "big city folks" take for granted.

Carl Singer


From: Batya Medad <ybmedad@...>
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 00:35:59 +0200
Subject: Re: Spraying meat with milk protein

      Drug Administration proposing to spray meat products with the milk
      protein lactoferrin in order to fight pathogens such as E Coli,

Has properly kashered/salted meat been compared to the traif, with and
without the spraying?  When I was growing up (mid last century), many
non-religious Jews, who ate traif, bought their meat from kosher
butchers, because it was considered "cleaner."  Traif meat is left
uncooked and certainly not salted for days.  They even claim that it
improves the texture.  I highly doubt that kosher meat has the same
bacteria count.



End of Volume 40 Issue 54