Volume 42 Number 32
                 Produced: Thu Mar  4  4:20:30 US/Eastern 2004

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Baking Help
         [Yisrael Medad]
Drisha classes, dinner, more...
         [Judith Tenzer]
E-Commerce  On Shabbos Or Yom Tov.
         [Immanuel Burton]
Kosher Versions of non-kosher & Reaction to Forbidden Items
         [Steven Oppenheimer]
         [Carl Singer]
Maot Hittim
         [Mark Steiner]
Pesach -- relaxed requirements
         [David I. Cohen]
         [Tirzah Houminer]
Women's Megillah Reading
         [Aliza Berger]
Yom HaAtzmaut 5764
         [Michael J Broyde]


From: Yisrael Medad <ybmedad@...>
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 00:14:34 +0200
Subject: Baking Help

Anyone know of a source which pinpoints where exactly did baking go on
in the Temple courtyards?

At the Beit Pagai, the challot todah and the rekiki nazir.

But the other menachot (see Mishneh Torah, Avoda, Hilchot Ma'aseh
HaKorbanot, 12:22-23) seemed to have been somewhere in the Beit
HaMikdash itself and although there's a Tosefot YomTov which indicates
Beit Chalifot, I have found no Rishonim source.

Anybody with a source?

Yisrael Medad


From: Judith Tenzer <jtenzer@...>
Subject: Drisha classes, dinner, more...

Purim at Drisha - Women's Tefillah and Women's Megillah Reading Women
are invited to join Drisha students on Sunday, March 7 for a very
special celebration of Purim. Women's Tefillah begins at 9:00 a.m.
followed by Women's Megillah reading at 10:00 a.m. at Drisha, 131 West
86th Street, 9th floor.

Four Pesach Classes
If you're looking for new ways to prepare for your Seder, you will find
it at Drisha. A series of four lunchtime classes begins on March 17,
with David Arnow, Nathaniel Helfgot, Rachel Friedman and Jeremy
Stavisky. Check out the pre-Pesach lineup and register at
http://www.drisha.org/continuinged/continuinged_lunch. All of these
classes are open to women and men.

David Rapoport Memorial Lecture
The annual David Rapoport Memorial Lecture will take place on Thursday,
March 25 at 7:30 p.m. Lisa Schlaff will deliver this year's lecture on
"Demons, Kings and Rabbinic Authority: Biblical Aggadah in the Talmud."
Women and men are welcome. There is no charge for this lecture.

Save the Date: Drisha Annual Dinner May 9
Bethia Straus and Paul Quintas will be honored at the Drisha annual
dinner chaired by Elissa Shay Ordan and Daniel J. Ordan on Sunday, May
9. In celebration of Drisha's 25th  anniversary, Drisha Scholars Leora
Bednarsh, Channa Lockshin, Sally Mayer and Beth Samuels will teach
classes on the theme "Em B'Yisrael: I Arose as a Mother in Israel." All
learning is dedicated to the memory of Gwendolyn Straus. For information
about the dinner, contact Judith Tenzer <jtenzer@...>

Summer Programs begin June 7
Drisha's Summer Institutes run from June 7-25 (three-week program) and
June 28-July 30 (five-week program). Both programs offer full-time and
part-time programs of study. This is a wonderful opportunity for women
to build their skills in Talmud, Jewish Law, Bible, Philosophy, Biblical
Hebrew, and Midrash. Courses in the Summer Institutes are offered on two
levels; continuing education courses are open to all. The complete
program will be posted on the website before Pesach. For further
information contact Program Director Judith Tenzer, <jtenzer@...>

Summer High School Program begins June 28
The five-week Summer High School Program begins on June 28th with
classes in Talmud, Bible, Midrash, Jewish Law, and extra-curricular
activities including a barbeque, swim-party, sports, chessed projects,
and two Shabbatons. The program provides a unique blend of serious text
study with a full program of fun activities. For information, contact
Miriam Udel-Lambert, Director, Summer High School Program,

On behalf of Rabbi Silber and all of us at Drisha, Happy Purim!!!

Judith Tenzer
Program Director, Drisha Institute for Jewish Education
131 West 86th Street, New York, NY 10024
(212) 595-0307, www.drisha.org


From: Immanuel Burton <IBURTON@...>
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:08:14 +0000
Subject: E-Commerce  On Shabbos Or Yom Tov.

The subject of sending faxes to places where it is still Shabbos (or
emails) has been discussed on this group, but I would like to raise the
following points:

(1) Can one bid in an online auction, e.g. on eBay, that ends on Shabbos
or Yom Tov?  Does it make a difference if one puts in a very high bid in
an attempt to guarantee winning the auction?

(2) If one runs an online business that takes purchase orders, does one
have to disable the ordering facility on Shabbos or Yom Tov?  If so,
would it be for the whole of Shabbos or Yom Tov where one lives, or
where the server hosting one's business is located, or for the whole of
the time that it is Shabbos or Yom Tov somewhere in the world?

Immanuel Burton.


From: Steven Oppenheimer <oppy49@...>
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 17:24:10 -0500
Subject: Kosher Versions of non-kosher & Reaction to Forbidden Items

<< On a related topic, there are fake bacon bits, made entirely from
vegetable matter and assorted spices, which are said to taste like
bacon.  These products are appropriately hekshered, and I know
intellectually that it is permissible to eat them.  I just emotionally
can't stand the thought or the smell or the idea of consuming these
things.  <irwin@...>  Baltimore, MD >>

>>Yet, is it not so , not sure if halachically or otherwise, that if one
smells non-kosher food he or she should acknowledge how good it is, but
realize that Hashem has commanded us not to eat treif?  We can admit we
like things that are not permitted--and perhaps receive schar for
avoiding them by following halachah.  S.Wise

The Talmud Yerushalmi states as follows:

Ultimately, a person will have to give an accounting (before the
heavenly court) for everything which his eye saw, but of which he did
not partake.  Rabbi Eleazar would save his pennies and buy each fruit at
least once a year in order to partake of it (Jerusalem Talmud, Kiddushin

See also Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 59:19.

In Torat Kohanim on Leviticus 20:26, one finds a famous and often-quoted
saying attributed to Rabbi El`azar ben `Azarya: "Lo yomar adam, ee efshi
le'echol basar chazir, ee efshi lavo `al ha`erva, aval [yomar] efshi,
uma e`eseh, v'Avi she'ba'shamayyim gazar `alai". "One should not say, 'I
do not desire pork, I do not desire forbidden sexual relations' --
rather, one should say, 'I desire it, but what can I do? My Father in
Heaven has decreed for me'".

Similarly, see the Sifra Parashat Kedoshim 10:11.

It would seem that taking pride in detesting non-kosher items or
forbidden activity is not the preferred approach.  The realization
should be that as a Jew, alternative behavior is required of us, and we
act accordingly in the service of HaShem.

Steven Oppenheimer, DDS


From: Carl Singer <casinger@...>
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 05:45:14 -0500
Subject: Lists

Gut Voch

In a shiur yesterday (Shabbos) a side comment was made that there are
people who will not put up menus or lists on their refrigerators lest
they write on, or cross items off of same.

A bit of background: For a "3 day Yom Tov" some people apparently create
a written menu to remind them what to serve at each meal.  Similarly,
some families post a shopping list so that, for example, when a member
of the household uses the last orange juice, "OJ" is added to the
shopping list.

Seems innocent enough.  But there were halachic prohibitions dating back
to slates and chalk.

I'm interested in how this matter is dealt with today -- both from a
mechanical viewpoint (here's what we do) and from an halachic viewpoint
-- here's how we extend or curtail the application of halacha to meet
current conditions.  Are "magic slates", "white boards", "chalk boards",
"writing paper" covered up or removed on Shabbos?  Is the temptation to
write such that we hide pencils and pens for Shabbos or Yom Tov?

 (BTW -- we keep an occasional menu on the fridge, but - primarily for
neatness - writing implements are stowed in a drawer all the time.)

Carl Singer


From: Mark Steiner <marksa@...>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 23:12:35 +0200
Subject: Maot Hittim

Erev Pesach, 5764

Dear friends,

	Purim is around the corner, and Pesach is not far behind.  Once
again, I approach you on behalf of the poor of Jerusalem.  The term
"poor" is a relative term.  There are middle class families in Israel
who are too proud to ask for charity, yet have lost their income because
of the crisis Israel is undergoing, in which just defending ourselves
eats up a good part of our resources.  There are poor families who used
to rely on child support grants that have now been slashed.  The term
"maot hittim," which means literally money to buy wheat (for matzot),
has become frighteningly accurate--an halakhic concept which,
unfortunately, is no metaphor.

	Based on past experience-experience in attempting to raise funds
so that the poor of Jerusalem will be able to sit down to a joyous seder
table-I am quite sure that our brethren everywhere will answer our
Pesach appeal generously.  The knowledge that Jews abroad care about
their brethren in Israel is a powerful antidote to the fear that
terrorism tries to sow.  The mail-jewish community has always been
particularly generous because our members understand what halakha
demands of us; know what is going on in the world; and have more than
their share of ahavat yisrael (Love of Israel).

	As in the past, those who would like to send me their
contribution directly, may do so: Make out your check to the Kupat Ezer,
and send it to Mark Steiner, 23 Kovshei Katamon Street, Jerusalem,
Israel.  May we, and all Israel, be blessed this year with an end to the
bloodshed, and with the beginning of real peace.  May you and your
families be blessed with a year of health and happiness.

Mark Steiner
For the Kupat Ezer


From: <bdcohen@...> (David I. Cohen)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 15:11:13 -0500
Subject: Pesach -- relaxed requirements

Carl Singer wrote with respect to cleaning for Pesach:

<<There are many differing halachic viewpoints and scores of different
minhagim and family traditions re: Pesach.  Granted many people go
beyond what others would consider to be halachic minimums when it comes
to preparing for Shabbos, Yom Tov AND Pesach.>>

I think Carl misses the point. There is nothing intrinsically "wrong"
with cleaning more than is minimally necessary for Pesach. What is wrong
is using the excuse of the unnneeded cleaning as a reason to justify
making Yom Tov of Pesach a vacation destination.

My own very subjective thought is that it is better to clean less and be
able to have extended family together celebrating and experiencing the
seder and yom tov at home, rather than spending the holiday sun bathing
or worrying about when the tea room opens or my tee time.

David I. Cohen  


From: Tirzah Houminer <tirzah@...>
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 08:04:27 +0200
Subject: Trumah-tetzaveh

In Israel there two parshiot are always read on separate Shabbatot, I
have a memory of their being separated, albeit rarely, in the USA.

Logical analysis seems to negate their being joined as what could the
reason be?

However the memory of several Americans living in Israel seems to
differ, they too remember the co-joining.

Can anyone help?


From: Aliza Berger <alizadov@...>
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:49:08 +0200
Subject: Women's Megillah Reading

As mentioned by another poster, there was recently in Hatsofe (the
religious Zionist newspaper) an "anti"-women's-reading article by Rav
Aviner of Bet El.

Later there appeared a "pro" response to it by Rav Yehuda Henkin (of
Bayit Vegan, I believe).

Rav Aviner's article is at http://tinyurl.com/2ykhk
Rav Henkin's response is at http://tinyurl.com/3au6h

Also note that in the Hebrew edition of the book "Bat Mitzvah," edited
by Sarah Friedland Ben-Arza, the Sephardic rabbi Rav Baruch Gigi (of
Alon Shvut) has an article pro-women's megillah readings. For an English
source "pro," see Rabbi Avi Weiss's Women at Prayer. For a more lengthy,
somewhat "pro" English source, see R. Aryeh Frimer's article. It was
published in the book "Traditions and Celebrations for the Bat Mitzvah"
(the English edition of the Hebrew book mentioned above; the editions
somewhat differ in content), edited by Ora Wiskind Elper. It can also be
found at


Aliza Berger, PhD
Director, English Editing: editing-proofreading.com
Statistics Consulting: statistics-help.com


From: Michael J Broyde <mbroyde@...>
Subject: Yom HaAtzmaut 5764

Many people have asked about the proper day to celebrate Yom HaAtzmaut
this year, and I share with you a recent teshuva written by Rav Gedalia
Schwartz, the Av Beth Din of the Beth Din of America and the chair of
the va'ad halacha of the Rabbinical Council of America, to Rabbi
Herring, the Executive Director of the RCA.

Rabbi Michael Broyde
Dayan, Beth Din of America
Cell: 917-208-5011

Dear Rabbi Herring:

In response to your query concerning the celebration this year, 5764
(2004) of Yom HaAtzmaut, it is my humble opinion that it should be
celebrated on the Fifth of Iyar as usual, beginning Sunday evening,
April 25th.  The Chief Rabbinate of Israel has delayed this years
celebration to Monday evening, April 26th, because of concerns of
possible Chilul Shabbat for the commemoration of Yom HaZikaron which
normally precedes Yom HaAtzmaut.  However, since this Yom HaZikaron is
practically not applicable to us outside of Israel, the concerns of
Chilul Shabbat are not relevant.  Therefore, the original date of the
Fifth of Iyar should be observed as indicated above.

Gedalia Dov Schwartz
Av Beth Din
Beth Din of America
305 Seventh Avenue, Suite 1201
New York, NY 10001-6008


End of Volume 42 Issue 32