Volume 42 Number 33
                 Produced: Mon Mar 29 22:37:13 US/Eastern 2004

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

         [Avi Feldblum]
Chaye Adam and Kitzur
         [Saul Mashbaum]
E-Commerce  On Shabbos Or Yom Tov (2)
         [Sperling, Jonathan, Gershon Dubin]
Hands-off Shabbos business transactions
         [Carl Singer]
Lists on Refrigerators on Shabbat
         [Batya Medad]
L'Maan Achai V'Rayai
"People" or "Nation"?
         [David Ziants]
"Saturday school" detention
Tootsie Rolls
         [Dine, Richard]
Trumah-tetzaveh (2)
         [Rose Landowne, Elazar M Teitz]
Yom HaAtzmaut celebrations
         [Nomi Voroba Guberman]


From: Avi Feldblum <mljewish@...>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 22:17:50 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Administrivia

The bein-hazamanim of Purim has lasted much longer than I expected, as we
are almost at Pesach. Hopefully I will get a number of issues out before
Pesach, and then the Pesach ben-hazamanim will be shorter, rather than the
more traditional longer ben-hazemanim of Pesach.

I hope all of our members had a very good Purim!

Avi Feldblum
mail-jewish Moderator


From: Saul Mashbaum <smash52@...>
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 15:25:09 +0200
Subject: Re: Chaye Adam and Kitzur

Eli Turkel <turkel@...> wrote:

>The question is what weight a psak of the kitzur carries. I understood
>it was not that highly regarded - certainly not on the level of Chaye

Without going into the relative merits of these works, I will relate the
following (almost certainly apocryphal) story:

When Harav Avraham Dantzig was asked why he called his work "Chaye
Adam", he replied: The Shulchan Aruch had a work written on it called
the "Kitzur Shulchan Aruch".  I didn't want that to happen to my work,
so I called it "Chaye Adam."  Surely no one will write a work called the
"Kitzur Chaye Adam"

Purim Sameach.
Saul Mashbaum


From: Sperling, Jonathan <JSperling@...>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:09:56 -0500
Subject: E-Commerce  On Shabbos Or Yom Tov

Immanuel Burton asked:

" If one runs an online business that takes purchase orders, does one
have to disable the ordering facility on Shabbos or Yom Tov?  If so,
would it be for the whole of Shabbos or Yom Tov where one lives, or
where the server hosting one's business is located, or for the whole of
the time that it is Shabbos or Yom Tov somewhere in the world?"

Rabbi Moshe Heinemann, head of the Star-K, recently published a detailed
answer to this, available at
http://www.star-k.org/kashrus/kk-win04-hotline.htm.  In short, he states
that the ordering facility needs to be shut down for the duration of
shabbos or yom tov, as determined by where the proprietor lives.

Jonathan M. Sperling

From: Gershon Dubin <gershon.dubin@...>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 23:08:54 -0500
Subject: E-Commerce  On Shabbos Or Yom Tov

This excerpt from the Star-K website addresses this:

Important Retraction from Star-K Certification
February 10, 2004

In the most recent issue of Kashrus Kurrents, Rabbi Moshe Heinemann
discussed the problems of an observant Jew selling products on a website
that is open on Shabbos. Despite extensive discussions with credit card
companies, we have become aware of new information that indicates that
in most situations there is no problem of chillul Shabbos. A full
discussion will, IY"H, appear in the next issue of Kashrus Kurrents. We
wish to thank the individuals who either own or work for credit card
companies for their valuable assistance.



From: Carl Singer <casinger@...>
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 04:46:50 -0500
Subject: Hands-off Shabbos business transactions

Great questions.  Here's a simpler (technology-wise) analogy, that I
imagine has been around for quite some time (thus presume has been
addressed somewhere.)

I own a vending machine (or an "honor vend") It is located so far from
where I spend Shabbos that there's no chance that I will be involved
with it on Shabbos. (Thus taking out one element of concern.)  BUT
people are free to make purchases on Shabbos and do so.  What are the
halachic implications?

And another one -- there's a coffee club at work, people pay 10 cents a
cup. We take turns buying supplies and maintaining the equipment.
Coffee is available 24 x 7 and people sometimes work weekends, so the
club is operating on Shabbos (neglecting issues of Kashrut) are there
any restrictions on my participation?

Carl Singer


From: Batya Medad <ybmedad@...>
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 12:38:05 +0200
Subject: Re: Lists on Refrigerators on Shabbat

      In a shiur yesterday (Shabbos) a side comment was made that there
      are people who will not put up menus or lists on their
      refrigerators lest they write on, or cross items off of same.

      A bit of background: For a "3 day Yom Tov" some people apparently
      create a written menu to remind them what to serve at each meal.
      Similarly, some families post a shopping list so that, for
      example, when a member of the household uses the last orange
      juice, "OJ" is added to the shopping list.

      Seems innocent enough.  But there were halachic prohibitions
      dating back to slates and chalk.

As one of those who has forgotten to serve food cooked for a chag,
because it was so special, it wasn't part of the routine, I do find
lists helpful.  It never occurred to me to write or cross off on Shabbat
or chag, though I guess the same people who have frequent kashrut
mix-ups will have trouble remembering not to write.  I teach students
with those sorts of problems.  But if there's no pen hanging, what's the
problem with a menu on the fridge?



From: <HHgoldsmith@...>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:03:22 EST
Subject: L'Maan Achai V'Rayai

Our community has a weekly gathering in support of Eretz Yisrael. It is
called L'Maan Achai V"Rayai and was started in October 2002 in response
to the terror attacks that were and still are occurring in Eretz
Yisrael.  The gathering consists of three parts: a shiur on tehillim
given by community members, recitation of tehillim on behalf of Eretz
Yisrael and cholim around the world, and reading a personal article on
some aspect of life in Eretz Yisrael. In addition, we collect tzedaka at
each gathering that is sent to organizations in Israel that help terror
victims and their families, or other worthy organizations in Israel that
assist its citizens in other ways. Occasionally we invite guest speakers
from outside the community and show videos related to Eretz Yisrael. The
program runs for forty-five minutes, has no costs, and can be duplicated
in your community. For more information please email <info@...>


From: David Ziants <dziants@...>
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 00:20:45 +0200
Subject: Re: "People" or "Nation"?

>From my posting where I state:
>The bottom line is that we pray for the reestablishment of
>"Malchut Bet David" - the kingship of the house of David aka
>Machiach Ben David. Yisrael has to be in its Land for this to happen,
>and be physically normalised like the other nation's of the world.

In response to some private correspondence, I wish to clarify my words
<physically normalised like the other nation's of the world>, as I did
not mean that we want a king in the same ways the other nations want a
king. This was specifically the sin of Israel, when they approached the
prophet Samuel with their request.

I was actually thinking back to some pieces of the small amount of
Maharal I once learnt (Netzach Yisrael), where he describes the Jews
when in Galut, as being in an unnatural and abnormal situation.  It is
the natural and normal situation for a People (or Nation) to be living
in its own country. I am working from memory, but I think the Maharal
uses the adjective "tivi" (= "natural"), in this context. I don't
remember whether the Maharal mentions having a monarch here, but I feel
that this is an extension of his argument.

David Ziants
Ma'aleh Adumim, Israel


From: Anonymous
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 04:51:56
Subject: "Saturday school" detention

I have already asked a 'shaila' about this, but am awaiting the answer
and wanted to hear from some m.j sources about issues.

I am a teacher in a public school.  The detention/punishment for repeat
offenders (for being late to class three times in a quarter, rude in
class more than once, fighting--even once, etc.) is coming to something
called "Saturday school" which is sitting in a classroom quietly
starting at 8am on Saturday, for several hours.  The kids are allowed to
do homework, or, I think, read a book.

Obviously, I am not proctoring these shabbat assignments.  :)

My question is about misbehaving Jewish kids.  There are a few Jewish
students who are right on the brink of getting a Saturday school,
because of various behaviors.  Am I allowed to assign them to a Saturday
school?  If I do not assign it myself, and they keep getting into
trouble, the person who will assign it (both levels of mgmt above me)
will be Jewish.

I asked the school what would happen if an observant kid couldn't do
his/her punishment for religious reasons, and they said they would
happily make other arrangements.  Also, in theory, a student could walk
to school and sit and read a book, not necessarily breaking shabbat.
However most if not all of the Jewish students are very secular, and
would certainly break shabbat to do Saturday school.

Also, is there a problem if I assign Saturday school to a nonJewish kid
and derive benefit (better behavior) from that?

Thank you very much.


From: Dine, Richard <richard.dine@...>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:23:58 -0500
Subject: RE: Tootsie Rolls

Are Tootsie Rolls Kosher?  They obviously have not Hechsher on them but
I did not think there was a concern until someone mentioned it to me.

Richard Dine


From: <ROSELANDOW@...> (Rose Landowne)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 07:05:57 EST
Subject: Re: Trumah-tetzaveh

>From: Tirzah Houminer <tirzah@...>
>In Israel there two parshiot are always read on separate Shabbatot, I
>have a memory of their being separated, albeit rarely, in the USA.
>Logical analysis seems to negate their being joined as what could the
>reason be?
>However the memory of several Americans living in Israel seems to
>differ, they too remember the co-joining.

In Israel there are fewer occurrences yomtov on shabbat, on which we
skip the regular leining, because of having only one day of yomtov.
Therefore there are more shabbatot to spread the yearly leining over, so
fewer double parshiot 

Rose Landowne

From: Elazar M Teitz <remt@...>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 05:28:31 -0500
Subject: re: Trumah-tetzaveh

<In Israel there two parshiot are always read on separate Shabbatot, I
have a memory of their being separated, albeit rarely, in the USA.>

        These two portions are not "separated, albeit rarely."  They are
always read on separate Shabbatot throughout the world.

        The only pairing which does not exist in Israel and does outside
it is Chukat-Balak.  They are combined only when (and only when) the
second day of Shavuot falls on Shabbat, which is of course not a holiday
in Israel.  For five weeks, from Naso through Chukat, Israel is a week
ahead of the rest of the world.  On the sixth Shabbat, Israel reads
Balak alone, outside it Chukat and Balak are combined, and thenceforth
the readings are the same everywhere.

        When the eighth day of Pesach is a Shabbat, again Israel is a
week ahead.  In a non-leap year, alignment comes when B'har and
B'chukkotai are separate there and combined elsewhere.  In a leap year,
the discrepancy continues until Mattot and Masei are separated in Israel
and combined elsewhere -- a total of fifteen weeks.


From: Nomi Voroba Guberman <Nomi.Guberman@...>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:28:09 +0200
Subject: Re: Yom HaAtzmaut celebrations

I was very dismayed by a particular phrase in the response of the Av
Beth Din regarding the timing of Yom HaAtzmaut celebrations, this
year. "However, since this Yom HaZikaron is practically not applicable
to us outside of Israel, the concerns of Chilul Shabbat are not

In my humble opininon, it seems incongruous and almost insensitive for
one outside of Israel to participate in the celebration of Yom HaAtzmaut
altogether (and basically trespass the "mourning laws" of Sefirat
HaOmer) and at the same time regard the collective mourning of the
Jewish soldiers who sacrificed themselves to reach this goal, as
"practically not applicable to us outside of Israel"!

The ruling of the Chief Rabbinate (which I believe is the original
source of the "heter" to celebrate during the Omer) is to celebrate Yom
HaAtzmaut this year a day later in order to retain the integrity of the
Yom HaZikaron mourning period. For one to regard the mourning as
"practically not applicable", and moreover to celebrate during the Omer
at a time which has been determined by the same office of the Chief
Rabbinate to be inappropriate, seems problematic.

May those who mourn with Jerusalem, merit to celebrate with her in her joy.

Nomi Guberman,
Maaleh Adumim


End of Volume 42 Issue 33