Volume 42 Number 47
                 Produced: Mon Apr 19  6:17:07 US/Eastern 2004

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Bi-Gender Nouns
         [Immanuel Burton]
Bi-Gender nouns
         [Gilad J. Gevaryahu]
Bnai Eretz Yisroel in Chul
         [Shimon Glick]
Duchaning Outside Eretz Yisrael
         [Yisrael Medad]
Halachot of Davening during a Flight
         [Shmuel Himelstein]
An halakhic riddle
         [Jack Gross]
Heimish baker in Monticello, New York
In memorium for those killed in the Shoa...
         [Ilana Rosansky]
Most Common Mispronunciation of Them All
         [Michael Frankel]
Shofar question
         [Nathan Lamm]
Veshameru on Friday night
         [I. Balbin]


From: Immanuel Burton <IBURTON@...>
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 09:03:32 +0100
Subject: RE: Bi-Gender Nouns

The Decalogue is commonly referred to as the Aseres Ha'dibros, whereas
the Torah itself refers to them as the Aseres Ha'devorim (Deuteronomy

The Tiferes Yisroel commentary on the Mishnah writes that all Hebrew
nouns are capable of changing gender on occasion.  I'm afraid I don't
remember where exactly this is written, but it's somewhere towards the
end of Seder Tohoros.

Immanuel Burton.

From: <Gevaryahu@...> (Gilad J. Gevaryahu)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 09:58:26 EDT
Subject: Bi-Gender nouns

Eli Turkel (MJv42n45) asks about the word "ilan" as some have it "ilanot
tovot" while others "ilanot tovim." I can improve on the question by
pointing out that some pluralize "ilan" as "ilanim" (e.g., Ibn Ezra use
it 7 times in the Bible - Gen 27:27, Num 24:6, Zech 4:2, Psalm 84:7,
Psalm 104:13, Ecc 2:5).

The dictionaries I have consulted, such as Even-Shoshan, Gur, Ben-Yehuda
are unanimous that "ilan" is masculine. The phenomenon that some words,
or word combinations, will have more than one way of pluralization is
known, and is a form of literal device. Rambam has a chapter "Ma'achlot
Assurot" to have the rhyme of suffix xxot although "ma'achal" is
masculine. Likewise, Agnon, in his book "Yamim Nora'im" in the subtitle
has "minhagot and midrashot" instead of "minhagim and midrashim" for the
same reason.

Both "ilanot tovim" and "ilanot tovot" appear numerous times in Rabbinic
literature. Radak, the grammarian, uses both forms (II Kings 3:19 and
Jer. 2:7). Radak also uses Ilanim (Isa. 1:29).

Gilad J. Gevaryahu


From: Shimon Glick <gshimon@...>
Subject: Bnai Eretz Yisroel in Chul

with respect to bnai eretz yisroel in Chul, most achronim state clearly
that they must avoid melachot even in the privacy of their homes.There
is an article on the subject in Techumin vol 12 by Rabbi Finder.
In practice many dati Israelis act otherwise, in spite of rabbinical

Shimon Glick


From: Yisrael Medad <ybmedad@...>
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 22:54:26 +0200
Subject: Duchaning Outside Eretz Yisrael

In further reading of Chaviva Pedayah's new book, I found this regarding
our subject in her discussion on Rav Yitzchak: Sagi-Nahor's commentary
on Amalek, in reference to the raising of Moshe's hands:-

"...the raising of hands in an ordinary fashion during prayer, a custom
(sic!) that was prevalent until the destruction of the Temple [and here
she notes two sources: Alon, Mechkarim 1, pgs. 181-184; Zimmer, Olam
K'minhago Noheg, pgs. 78-88] and halted due to disputes with the
Christians [Wider, Islamic Influences on Jewish Practices,
pgs. 108-109]."

So, it would seem, that is, without reviewing the academic sources she
notes, that the custom of duchaning was affected both by the destruction
of the Temple and by an aversion to a similar Christian custom.

Yisrael Medad


From: Shmuel Himelstein <himels@...>
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 20:49:50 +0300
Subject: Halachot of Davening during a Flight

The Jerusalem Post of Friday, April 16, carried an article about a P'sak
by R' Shmuel Halevi Wosner, a leading Posek in B'nei Brak, who was asked
by the El Al Rabbi about Davening on a flight.

Summarizing the article (not the P'sak, which I haven't seen, although I
understand it was published in a number of Chareidi newspapers), the
following points were made:

a) one should not have large Minyanim, but rather several smaller
Minyanim in different places. Large Minyanim are a safety hazard and are
detrimental to Kavanah.

b) Passengers should try to remain in their own seats for Davening.

c) For the Amidah prayer, passengers should stand either next to their
seat or at their seat. They may not clog the aisles by standing in them.

d) If necessary, they may recite the Amidah while sitting in their seats.

e) If the "seat belts" sign goes on, they must sit with their seat belts

The article adds that R' Ovadyah Yosef has ruled that it is better to
Daven at the airport, even without a Minyan, than in the plane. He fears
that by Davening on a plane people may be guilty of Gezel Sheina -
depriving others of sleep.

Shmuel Himelstein


From: Jack Gross <ibijbgross2@...>
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 22:42:57 -0400
Subject: Re: An halakhic riddle

From: Mark Steiner <marksa@...>
>On Shabbat or Yom Tov, if in error a person begins saying the
>weekday prayers--atah honen le-adam da`at, etc., he finishes the berakha
>he began in error, and then begins the Shabbat or Yom Tov prayer
>(e.g. ata behartanu, etc.)  Now suppose he makes this error during the
>evening prayer of Yom Tov, which falls right after Shabbat.  Where does
>he recite the havdalah prayer--in the middle of the (mistaken) atah
>honen prayer, with the weekday ata honantanu havadalah formula, or in
>middle of the atah behartanu prayer, with the Yom Tov havdalah formula
>'vatodi`enu', etc.?  Or perhaps the middle of atah honen with the
>'vatodienu' formula?

There are two reasons given in Berachos for the placement of Havdala in
the blessing of Daas (Knowledge), the first of the weekday blessings:
  (a) to note the transition into the weekday period before presenting
any petitions (hence, it appears in the *first* of the weekday
  (b) because of the relationship of Havdala ("distinction") to Daas
("knowledge"), the subject of that blessing.

The Gr"a notes that our practice is designed to satisfy both opinions: 
we include havdala in the blessing of Daas and place it after the
declarative opening (Ata Chonen...) to satisfy (b) -- but before the
supplication (Chonenu...) to satisfy (a).

In our case (where the blessing of Daas is to be completed, even though
normally omitted from the Yom Tov amidah):
 - Opinion (a) would still require that the declarative portion of
havdala be inserted in the blessing of Daas before the petitional portion
(Chonenu...) may be said. 
 - One might argue either way according to opinion (b):  Normally Daas is
chosen as the most appropriate amongst the 12 (or 13) weekday
blessings to host Havdala, but in our case the blessing of Kedushas Hayom
is even more appropriate.  Or perhaps not: since both Daas and Kedushas
HaYom are appropriate, we should do not pass over the first opportunity,
so Havdala should be inserted in Daas.

As to what nasach of Havdala to insert:  The normal weekly nusach of
havdala is inappropriate -- both because it fails to acknowledge the
kedusha of Yom Tov, and because it contains a petitional phase (hachel
aleinu...) which is not appropriate to Yom Tov.  I would venture that the
proper solution is to insert "VaTodieynu..." in Daas.


From: <Jillmrn@...>
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 21:31:18 EDT
Subject: Heimish baker in Monticello, New York

I'm looking for a Heimish baker in Monticello, New York.


From: Ilana Rosansky <ilanar49@...>
Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 06:33:54 -0400
Subject: In memorium for those killed in the Shoa...

A remembrance on the net

I read on the Israeli site http://www.walla.com this morning, that Yad
vaShem has launched an important project. This is to be a listing, on
the net, of over 3 million names of victims that Yad vaShem already has
- and to encourage internet surfers to add all known names until all the
names of all the victims have been in putted... Yad va-Shem has launched
a campaign called "until the last name"...

Lest we forget...


From: Michael Frankel <michaeljfrankel@...>
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:59:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Most Common Mispronunciation of Them All

Mark Symons Melbourne, Australia:
>  ..  Thus the word ought be pronounced avad-ti, rather than avadAti or 
>avaditi. The unwarranted substitution of a sh'voh noh is ubiquitous when 
>the sh'voh is under the first of two letters with similar sounds -daled, 
>tof, tes
<<I wasn't aware that the assimilation of the dalet was correct, if that's 
what you're saying, because if so, it would certainly seem to change the 
meaning. >>

spoken languages evolve, else we would still be speaking in s'faradit
accents as did card carrying Ashkenazim like Rashi and his
generation. so I hesitate (before generally plunging ahead anyway) to
use words like "correct" and am uncertain what weight ought be given to
the hoi polloi of each dor who vote each day on "correctness" with their
tongues.  Having said that, this particular issue, the swallowing of one
closely sounded letter by the next is explicitly discussed as early as
Ibn Janach and quoted approvingly by Radak.  The examples discussed by
ibn Janach are all "tes"/"tof" conjunctions, eg. v'ha'avaTi (d'vorim
16:6), and he explicitly writes that assimilating the sound is his own

>..in spoken Hebrew, almost all sh'voh nohs in the middle of a word (with 
>the > exception of sh'voh nohs appearing under letters with dogeish) have > 
>weakened to sh'voh nochs (thus, kosvu - they wrote, rather than the > 
>"correct" kos'vu) . >
<<Material I have read says that most authorities don't agree with you on 
this, despite the beit not taking a dagesh, though which I haven't yet come 
across an explanation for.  >>

I am a bit surprised to hear that and wonder what authorities those
might be.  for what it's worth (and I don't place much stock in it
myself as I do my own grammatical pasqening) those tiqqunim which
attempt to differentiate the "short" and "long" qometz with different
signs (such as the very nice "Simanim" tiqqun), would also invariably
identify the first qometz of our paradigm kos'vu as "long". (actually
kos'vu doesn't appear in tanach, so look at "hol'khu" instead). It is
true that twelve hundred years ago the tiberian masoretes pronounced ALL
mid-word sh'vohs under non-dogished letters, even those following a
t'nuoh g'doloh, as nochs, but modern leiners who distinguish all their
sh'voh nohs do not follow tiberian pronunciation in this, or in numerous
other matters as well.

Leah Perl Shollar: <<Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:13:26 -0400
How about "Pay-sach" for "Peh-sach", or "kiddish" for "Kee-dush"?  I use
the incorrect forms automatically, but am finding it odd the more I
think about it.>>

ah. yes. I should have clarified that I am only talking about
mispronunciations during torah leining. which is a kind of specialty
thing possibly corrupted by a hypercorrectness never realized in any
spoken language anywhere, but that's what elite ba'alei q'rioh like to
do. I did not mean to account as "mistakes" any usages common in
everyday spoken Hebrew where, as indicated above, I'm uncertain when a
widespread usage convention amongst the great unwashed ceases to be a
mistake and simply becomes correct usage. we don't sound much like
medieval english these days either.  There is no academy of the Hebrew
language which can dictate such matters to the masses or arrogate the
right to determine correctness (actually there is such an academy, but
we of the great unwashed need pay about as much attention to their
pronouncements as we do to those commercial entrepreneurs who assign
names to stars, for an appropriate fee.)

Mechy Frankel			W: (703) 845-2357
<michael.frankel@...>			H: (301) 593-3949


From: Nathan Lamm <nelamm18@...>
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 17:46:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Shofar question

The minimum you should blow is thirty- t-s-r-t three times, t-s-t three,
and t-r-t three (the last a tekiah gedolah). Of course, you're free to
blow sixty (some say the most important are those blown during amidah)
or all hundred.

This may sound rude, but I was unable to blow a shofar even after trying
for years until someone (a woman, and the best shofar blower I know)
gave me the tip that you have to make a raspberry (aka a Bronx cheer)
into the mouthpiece to get a sound to come out. I think the same applies
for most similar instruments (trumpet, etc.), but people don't like to
mention it.

Nachum Lamm


From: I. Balbin <isaac@...>
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 14:24:24 +1000
Subject: Re: Veshameru on Friday night

If my memory serves me correctly, amongst Chassidim this goes back to a
disagreement between two students of the Maggid of Mezritch, the Baal
HaTanya (Reb Shneur Zalman of Liady) and his Mechutan the Kedushas Levi
(Reb Levi Yitzchok of Berditchev). The latter held it should be said.  I
forget the discussion between them both on this issue.  It is still
printed in the former's Siddur but isn't said by Lubavitcher
Chassidim. In the Shule I daven at on Friday night (Chabad) they didn't
say it, but used to pause to allow those who do say it to do so. These
days, most who go the Amud there don't pause any longer probably because
they are unaware of the issue and/or they feel it's important to be
"truer" to the Nusach and not give others (admittedly far fewer than
yesteryear) a chance to say it. I say it because my father does. Does
anyone know if they say it in Amshinov?  I believe Reb Sholom Shimon
Z"TL used to daven from the Baal HaTanya's Siddur.

One point of interest would seemingly occur in the case of a person who
didn't manage to say Vayechulu with the minyan and who did say Veshomru.
It seems that Sdei Chemed held that saying Veshomru would mean the
person was also already Yotze Kiddush De-Orayso.  (Yes, I know the
Mishna Brura quotes Reb Akiva Eiger to the effect that saying "Good
Shabbos" "Shabbat Shalom" also achieves this and others hold that you
have to have it specially in mind, and others hold you have to make it
in the context of a Brocho ...)


End of Volume 42 Issue 47