Volume 43 Number 06
                 Produced: Wed Jun 16  7:37:13 US/Eastern 2004

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Alernate uses for "banned" Sheitels
         [Carl Singer]
The asymmetry of the Jewish modesty laws
         [Bernard Raab]
Deliberately Invalid Marriages
         [Warren Burstein]
Duchaning on Shabbat
         [Moshe Goldberg]
Encountering an electric device inadvertently on Shabbat
Erev 17 Tammuz
         [Martin Stern]
Evaporative Air Cooling Units and Shabbos.
         [Immanuel Burton]
         [Warren Burstein]
Mikveh when Husband is out of Town
         [Martin Stern]
Mincha After Skkiyah
         [Carl Singer]
New Sefer: Tziyurim L'Mseches Kinim
         [Shimon Lebowitz]
The Sheitel Issue
         [David Eisen]
         [Edward Black]
What we say during Hagba
         [Alan Friedenberg]
Wide Brimmed Hats
         [Carl Singer]


From: Carl Singer <casinger@...>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:06:40 -0400
Subject: Alernate uses for "banned" Sheitels

Some of you may be aware of programs such as "Locks of Love" where
people donate hair to be used in making wigs for cancer victims.
Although it would not be as graphic and worthy of news coverage as
burning sheitels on (was it) Lee Avenue -- would their be any issues of
hannoh (deriving benefit) if women who felt their sheitels were "treif"
donating them to a cancer related charity ....OK don't take the tax

Carl Singer


From: Bernard Raab <beraab@...>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 00:27:36 -0400
Subject: The asymmetry of the Jewish modesty laws

From: Jay F Shachter <jay@...>

>(Unlike) Mr. Raab, I do not believe that women, or men, are any
>different now than they were 20 or 30 years ago; I believe that women
>are the same today as they were under the Pharaohs, and they will be
>the same when we colonize Andromeda.  They will always be less likely
>to act on their arousal than men are.  People often think that the
>world has changed, when in fact the world has remained the world, and
>it is only they who have changed.  Mr. Raab may simply be noticing
>things now that he did not notice 20 years ago, because 20 years ago,
>he was, like all young men, clueless. <snip>

OK, I was not suggesting that the world or human nature (whatever that
is) has changed; only that our sexual mores seem to have undergone a
significant shift in recent years. (If you need an example here's one:
In the 1950's, the film star Ingrid Bergman was forced to leave the US
and was blacklisted from Hollywood for having a child "out of wedlock",
a quaint phrase today). Whatever the women's lib movement has or has not
accomplished, I think it is arguable that women have become more
independent and along with that, more sexually frank. [BTW, I was no
longer a young man 20 years ago, but alas, I am still pretty clueless.]

This is not to suggest that women were ever totally passive in the
"mating dance". As we read recently in Megilat Ruth, when Naomi
instructed Ruth to lie down near Boaz, she did so in the sure knowledge
that waiting for Boaz to make the first move would not be a very good
idea. At the same time, while instructing Ruth to make herself thus
available, she instructed her to wait for Boaz to make the "first"
move. I believe that this has been the paradigm for (successful) sexual
encounters over the ages, as experienced by Jay Shachter in the poignant
incident he described: The woman makes it clear that she is "available"
or would not reject the male advance, if it were to come. I just think
that nowadays the woman is even less likely to wait for the male to make
the next move. [Full disclosure: I am long from knowing such things from
personal experience, so feel free to argue with me.]

b'shalom--Bernie R.


From: Warren Burstein <warren@...>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 15:23:00 +0400
Subject: Deliberately Invalid Marriages

Somehow the instructions not to look at a wedding haven't reached me.
As far as I know, I'm a kosher witness.

In cases where I have been a designated witness, if it eventually turns
out to be necessary to disqualify me as a witness to end one marriage,
would other couples whose wedding I've witnessed need to remarry?

If a couple with a deliberately invalidatable wedding later becomes
observant, will they be advised to redo the marriage?


From: <mgold@...> (Moshe Goldberg)
Subject: Re: Duchaning on Shabbat

> From: Yehonatan & Randy Chipman <yonarand@...>

> On Yom Kippur, it is customary in most places to begin Neilah much
> earler than outside of Israel, so as to finish all the selihot and reach
> Birkat Kohanim before sundwon.  "Avinu Malkeinu" is then stretched out
> to fill in the time till the final "Sheimot" and Tekiat shofar.
> Presumably the sundown time limit for dukhaning is based on its analogy
> to avodat mikdash.  l've never actually found a source for this custom
> in print.  

This year's calendar booklet of customs and laws printed by Heichal Shlomo has
the following for Ne'ilah (my translation):
(1) In the section of Ashkenazi customs: "Blessings of the Kohanim if the sun
has not yet set (17:23 in Jerusalem)." - page 46
(2) In the section of Sephardi customs: "In the repeat of the Shemona Essrei,
the blessings of the Kohanim are said, and it is best to try to do this
before sunset (5:22)." - page 114.

Moshe Goldberg, <mgold@...>


From: Anonymous
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 13:40:53
Subject: Encountering an electric device inadvertently on Shabbat

Because of my upbringing and the possible sensitivity of everyone, I
will have to hint at the specific nature of the problem I encountered,
and even post this anonymously because I am a little bit embarrassed,
but here it goes.

While at a hotel, I walked into a specific room on Shabbat and realized
once I was in a delicate situation, that if I moved, I would cause an
electric eye to perform a specific function. Now the problems were
numerous. Should I stand there the whole day? Did I already do the
aveira by walking into the field of the eye, and leaving that field is
secondary? What about finishing mussaf and the other tefilot, let alone
Kiddush etc, and having my family wonder (and hopefully perhaps even
care enough to worry) where I am if I did stand there the whole day. I
apologize if this has already been discussed.


From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 12:57:06 +0100
Subject: Re: Erev 17 Tammuz

on 15/6/04 11:27 am, Yakir <yakirhd@...> wrote:

> What is the status of the night of (before) 17 Tammuz ?
> Does it have the status of the "3 weeks" or do they start with the fast,
> i.e. in the mo(u)rning. e.g. can one go to a concert on "erev" 17 Tammuz ?
> What about other fast days (e.g. 10 Tevet) ?

The restrictions only apply from amud hashachar or, in high latitudes
where there is no proper night, from halachic midnight. Davenning
ma'ariv has the same effect even if it was done early i.e. after plag

Martin Stern


From: Immanuel Burton <IBURTON@...>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 12:25:32 +0100
Subject: Evaporative Air Cooling Units and Shabbos.

Some of the cheaper options to full-blown air conditioning are units
that produce cool air by water evaporation.  Given that the water is not
actually heated, is it permitted to refill the water reservoir in such
units on Shabbos and/or Yom Tov?

Immanuel Burton.


From: Warren Burstein <warren@...>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 15:23:00 +0400
Subject: Mikva

I'm not married, but shouldn't questions like what to do if one is
invited to dinner on mikva night, or what to do when one's husband is
away, be commonplace situations, to which answers should not only be
readily available, but taught to couples before they are married?  And
if the hosts are themselves an observant couple, shouldn't they have
been taught not to pry?

But it seems that these answers neither known nor taught, so I have to
ask, why not?


From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 14:16:01 +0100
Subject: Re: Mikveh when Husband is out of Town

on 15/6/04 11:27 am, Kenneth G Miller <kennethgmiller@...> wrote:

> Several people have written that it is wrong for a woman to go to the
> mikveh while her husband is out of town.
> I have no idea what the logic is for this. Can someone explain it to me?
> There have been several occasions when I was away on business when my
> wife was scheduled to go to the mikveh. She went on time.
> If she waited until I got home, then upon my arrival, we would have
> still been forbidden to touch or pass things to each other for quite a
> while.  This would be a few hours if I got home in the morning or
> afternoon, or a full day (or even more) if I got home at night. Who
> wants that headache?  For what purpose? Why not just go when she is
> ready?

This is yet another example of problems people have when they try to
pasken for themselves rather than ask a competent orthodox rabbi. In the
circumstances mentioned it would seem to be best for her to go to the
mikvah the night before her husband's expected return since there is no
point in going earlier. However there may be other opinions and the
couple should ask their own rav for guidance as to how they should
comport themselves in practice.

Martin Stern


From: Carl Singer <casinger@...>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 09:40:06 -0400
Subject: Mincha After Skkiyah

> From: Shmuel Himelstein <himels@...>
> A forum member writes:
>>"The situation currently in Europe and America is that most (but not
>>all) chasidim have retained the Eastern European minhog of davening
>>mincho after shkio, whereas most (but not all) non-chasidishe
>>'ashkenazim' have adopted the chumro of davening mincho before the
>Am I missing something? Is requiring one to daven Minchah before Shkiyah
>just a Chumrah? I thought that allowing one to daven Minchah after
>Shkiyah - if permitted at all - is a Kulah.

One of my sons pointed out to me and to a "tardy" z'man minyan that on
Friday night it is, according to (as I recall) the Shlaw in the Aruch
HaShulchan a sakuneh (danger) to not say "Mizmor Shir L'yom HaShabbat"
after Shkiyah.  This would, of course, imply davening Mincha BEFORE

Carl Singer


From: Shimon Lebowitz <shimonl@...>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 23:28:11 +0300
Subject: Re: New Sefer: Tziyurim L'Mseches Kinim

Charlie Hafner <rebcharles@...> wrote, way back when:
> My brother, Shlomo Hafner, has put together a new Sefer, along the same
> lines of his previous Tziyurim L'Mseches Yevamos. It is available in
> manuscript format at www.insureback.com/kinim.  Any input or comments are
> appreciated.

Now that Kinim can already be seen off in the distance (this coming
Nov/Cheshvan), I was wondering what limitations might apply to the pdf
files I downloaded.

They say they are copyright - am I allowed to print them for my daf-yomi
shiur? What about selected pages? Any problem with bringing them on a
laptop and showing them to everyone?

I really don't know the limits, but the author says that in Devarim
19:14 it says "lo tasig...".

Shimon Lebowitz                           mailto:<shimonl@...>
Jerusalem, Israel            PGP: http://www.poboxes.com/shimonpgp


From: David Eisen <davide@...>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 13:23:33 +0200
Subject: RE: The Sheitel Issue

Due to the fact that HaRav Elyashiv's ruling is based on the findings of
HaRav Dunner's fact-finding mission and since there were reports that
disputed Rav Dunner's interpretation of the statements made by his
interviewees, does anyone know if his fact-finding team made audio/video
recordings of the interviews he conducted?  Naturally, these recordings
would greatly benefit those poskim and scholars who rely on this

David Eisen
E-mail: <davide@...>
Telephone:              (972-2) 623-9200


From: Edward Black <edwardblack@...>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 12:26:17 +0100
Subject: Tanya

Is anyone aware of a text of all or part of the Tanya in vowelled Hebrew
(Tanya Menukad) being available either in hard copy or anywhere on the

Many thanks
Edward Black


From: Alan Friedenberg <elshpen@...>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 05:40:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What we say during Hagba

During Hagba, the Rav of the shule where I grew up always says, "Hashem
Elkaynu emes v'sorahso emes" before saying "v'zos hatorah . . ."  I
asked him about it, and he does not remember specifically where this
minhag came from - possibly from when he was in yeshiva before the Nazis
destroyed his town.  I know that I have seen this arrangement in one
siddur, but can't remember what nusach it was.  Can anyone tell me where
this is found?



From: Carl Singer <casinger@...>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:20:16 -0400
Subject: Wide Brimmed Hats

> Now, the latest: At a wedding this week, my wife was informed by one
> of the women that at at least one yeshiva the bochurim have been
> instructed not to wear the wide-brimmed hats on Shabbos, but to
> acquire hats with smaller brims for shabbos wear!

Perhaps its a subtle hint that the brims are getting too large and
becoming sort of a form of "upsmanship."

I imagine most parents buy their son a Shabbos hat for their Bar Mitzvah
and as this deteriorates it is replaced by a new (Shabbos) hat, the old
one becoming the vocedik (weekday) hat worn at yeshiva.  By suggesting
smaller brimmed hats for Shabbos, the natural progression of things will
result (in a year or so -- that is one "hat generation") in smaller
brims all around.

The above discussion only applies to "black hats" -- gray, blue and
brown fedoras are buttel b'rov. :)

Carl Singer


End of Volume 43 Issue 6