Volume 43 Number 12
                 Produced: Mon Jun 21  7:01:26 US/Eastern 2004

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Another Birkat Kohanim question
         [Shmuel Himelstein]
Diabetes Web Site
         [Andy Goldfinger]
Encountering an electric device inadvertently on Shabbat
         [Avinoam Bitton]
Halacha and the aspect of hefsed mamon (monetaty loss)
         [Leah Perl Shollar]
Mikva Night and Invitations (2)
         [Michael Rogovin, Dov Bloom]
Mikva when Husband is not Home (3)
         [Akiva Miller, Shoshana Ziskind, Leah Perl Shollar]
Mikveh Attendance
         [Esther Posen]
One-handle water faucets on Shabbat
         [Harlan Braude]
Shiddiuch Rules
Source for a quote
         [Gil Student]
What we say during Hagba
         [Eli Delman]
Y'kum Purkan (2)
         [Matthew Pearlman, Eli Delman]


From: Shmuel Himelstein <himels@...>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 15:10:26 +0300
Subject: Another Birkat Kohanim question

While on vacation in Eilat we davened in our hotel Shul. Obviously, each
Davening the Chazan was one of the guests in the hotel.

One weekday morning, the Chazan was a member of the Eidot Mizrach and a

While reciting Modim aloud in the Chazarat Hashatz, he walked over from
the Bimah in the center to the front of the Aron, and joined me for the
Birkat Kohanim.

After Birkat Kohanim, he began reciting Sim Shalom as he walked back to
the bimah (with a side trip on the way to get his shoes), and he
finished Chazarat Hashatz at the bimah.

Does anyone know is this normative Halachah for Eidot HaMizrach?

Shmuel Himelstein


From: Andy Goldfinger <Andy.Goldfinger@...>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 13:21:50 -0400
Subject: Diabetes Web Site

For those readers who have diabetes, or know others that do, please be
advised that there is a very helpful web site dealing with diabetes
management for observant Jews.

Here it is:


-- Andy Goldfinger


From: Avinoam Bitton <avib@...>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 01:51:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Encountering an electric device inadvertently on Shabbat

I would think this qualifies as a psik resha d'lo nicha lei in a
d'Rabbanan situation.

Move on.

Avinoam Bitton


From: Leah Perl Shollar <leahperl@...>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:09:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Halacha and the aspect of hefsed mamon (monetaty loss)

> > My point is that there is no difference between a box of traif cereal, a
> > mezuza, and a shaitel - the cost is immaterial.  Halacha is an
> > expectation that Hashem has from us, and it's not commendable (IMHO) to
> > follow Hashem's dictates simply due to the expense.

I was under the impression that hefsed mamon is taken into account when
paskening shaalos.  For example, if many chickens are shechted, and then
pcs. from one is found to be treif, the issue is dealt with differently
than if it is a single chicken.  "Chas Rachmana al mamon Yisroel" as I
recall my teacher telling us repeatedly in high school (as a mussar to
not waste our parents money on shtuyos).

L. Shollar


From: Michael Rogovin <rogovin@...>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:05:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Mikva Night and Invitations

Tzvi Stein responded to my post: <Tzvi.Stein@...>

>  One point that I'd like to add is that, according to my
>  understanding, it's actually *required* to have relations on that
>  night, not just "possible".  ... So it's actually more of a sure
>  thing than just a possibility.

Well I just don't know. So if one spouse is ill, or is too tired or they
are fighting or one just doesn't want to for whatever reason, they have
to? I concede there is a general requirement for consent to spousal
relations, but on demand regardless of the circumstances? Since it is
typically the man who would demand it (though not always), that sounds
like a recipe for spousal rape to me.

Even if it was a sure thing, which I do not concede, then relations on
the night following a wedding is as much a sure thing as mikvah night
and we all know that. Do we spend the wedding obsessing on this fact? I
don't think so.


From: Dov Bloom <dovb@...>
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 00:54:00 +0200
Subject: Re: Mikva Night and Invitations

A few weeks ago I heard a shiur by R Deuel Basok (from Ir David, School
Rabbi at Himmelfarbs Yeshiva in Jlem) exactly making Ben Katz's points.
He claimed you see many Sephardi women who you wouldn't expect to, going
to the mikve (if you judged from their dress, for instance) . He
attributed this to a more open and even celebratory attitude to taharat
hamishpacha, eg Sephardi brides go to the mikve before their wedding
with great fanfare, celebration, accompanied by all the relatives
singing, etc. So it becomes a positive thing to do.  Whereas he claimed
that many Ashkenazi young women who "you would expect to" from their
background and daily shmirat mitzvot, do not go to the mikva. He claimed
these girls never knew for example, that their mothers went to the
mikve, because it was always so well hidden. So they never grew up with
this important mitzva as part of normal family practice. In schools he
claimed it is not taught, so "how's a girl to know?"

Dov A Bloom


From: Akiva Miller <kennethgmiller@...>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 09:56:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Mikva when Husband is not Home

Tzvi Stein wrote <<< I think in general, the adultery issue is relevant.
Even though it does not seem so logical, when it comes to the yetzer
hara, logic is not always the only guide.  Psychology often plays a
larger role. Chazal were great experts in human psychology. >>>

I will definitely agree that psychology has an important role, and that
Chazal were experts in this.

But was it really *Chazal* who said not to go to the mikveh when the
husband isn't home? Or is it something more recent? Does anyone have any
sources on this?

Akiva Miller

From: Shoshana Ziskind <shosh@...>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 09:00:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Mikva when Husband is not Home

On Jun 17, 2004, at 6:19 AM, Tzvi Stein <Tzvi.Stein@...> wrote:
> From: Leah Perl Shollar <leahperl@...>
>> How can she keep track of her calendar days if she doesn't count?
> She can just mark down the relevant days on the calendar, without
> counting clean days.

She would have to do a hefsek tahara though to know how to count.
Otherwise how would she count haflaga?

Sounds though, like she'd have to go to a Rav.

Shoshana Ziskind

From: Leah Perl Shollar <leahperl@...>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:13:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Mikva when Husband is not Home

>  Not going until one's husband is back from an ordinary business trip
>  seems like nonsense

I think the issue is this: the whole purpose of the mikve is so the wife
can be betahara so that chibbur can take place.  If there will be no
chibbur there is no purpose to going.

L. Shollar


From: Esther Posen <eposen@...>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 09:22:26 -0500
Subject: RE: Mikveh Attendance

It is not appropriate to disparage attendees of Orthodox shuls by
suggesting that many of the congregants do not use the mikvah -
especially not in a public forum like this.  It is slandering all of
Orthodox religious jewry.  If the author wanted to make his point he
might of stated that being more open about mikvah might encourage a
higher attendance rate. (I believe this kind of community bashing should
be moderated OUT of individual posts.)

Esther Posen


From: Harlan Braude <hbraude@...>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:49:19 -0400
Subject: RE: One-handle water faucets on Shabbat

> off the heat won't help because new cold water entering the tank will be
> heated up and that is Bishul. The only way around this is to actually
> turn off the tap to prevent cold water entering the tank, but I don't
> know how practical this is.

It's my understanding that if the cold water source is turned off to the
common (at least in the US), cylindrical, home hot water heater, only a
lmited amount of water will exit the unit because of the vacuum that
would develop as the water drains (the unit is hermetically sealed.)


From: Anonymous_2
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:04:34
Subject: Shiddiuch Rules

I've been following the thread on shidduch rules, but being immersed in
arranging my daughter's wedding, which will take place b"h next Tuesday,
I didn't have time to comment. Today I do.

I think in general "the rules" are guidelines that vary from situation
to situation and community to community. In my experience, the influence
of the shadchan is critical and parents have to take into consideration
the sensitives of the children.

1. My future son-in-law did wear a coat and hat on their first dates,
including one to an arcade.

2. The shadchan spoke to me and my husband before suggesting any
shidduch to my daughter. Once my daughter went on a date, both she and
my date reported directly to the shadchen afterward. But the shadchan
always called me after and discussed everything with me and my husband.

3. I didn't meet previous dates or my future son-in-law until I knew my
daughter was interested. Our case was unusual because my daughter's
chasson lives in the house directly behind us, and although we did not
know him (he's been away at yeshiva since we've lived here), we are
quite friendly with his parents.

4. Because our situation was unusual, we parents were in contact from
the beginning. We worked hard to keep it a secret from the general
community to protect the privacy of the young couple (we were remarkably
successful), but we talked frequently amongst ourselves.

5. Our shadchan says that by the fifth date, most couples know whether
it is right or not. My daughter knew by the third date, but the shadchan
urged them to move slowly and go on two more dates before getting

6. At seminary, my daughter was told that she should always go on a
second date. In real life, she went out with one boy who she could not
stand to go out with again. So she didn't.

We were lucky that we worked with a wonderful shadchan (also a neighbor)
who spent a great deal of time and effort trying to make sure everything
was right for us and our children. Other shadchans I contacted were
abrupt and disinterested. One friend of mine says that the shadchans
give her son a list of girls names and no other information. I think
that because of the shadchan we worked with, our experience was
positive, and we are now on the verge of celebrating our simcha.


From: Gil Student <gil_student@...>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:38:30 -0400
Subject: RE: Source for a quote

I believe the original source is the medieval philosopher R' Yedaiah
Ha-Penini. In Al Ha-Teshuvah, Rav Soloveitchik is quoted as stating
that, if taken literally, this statement is heretical. 

Gil Student


From: Eli Delman <eli.delman@...>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:33:07 -0400
Subject: RE: What we say during Hagba

>During Hagba, the Rav of the shule where I grew up always says, "Hashem
>Elkaynu emes v'sorahso emes" before saying "v'zos hatorah . . ."  I
>asked him about it, and he does not remember specifically where this
>minhag came from - possibly from when he was in yeshiva before the
>Nazis destroyed his town.  I know that I have seen this arrangement in
>one siddur, but can't remember what nusach it was.  Can anyone tell me
>where this is found?

This custom is mentioned by the Chida in his sefer L'David Emes (22:4)
and in Shulchan HaTahor (comm. to Orach Chaim, Kamarna, 1874). It is
discouraged, however, in Siddur Tzlossa D'Avraham.



From: Matthew Pearlman <Matthew.Pearlman@...>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 12:16:22 +0100
Subject: Re: Y'kum Purkan

The Shulchan Aruch (OC 101:4) states that personal requests may be made
in any language expect Aramaic. The Mishna Berura says that therefore
when praying at home, you cannot say either yekum purkan.  

Matthew Pearlman
Email:       mailto:<enquiries@...>

From: Eli Delman <eli.delman@...>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:49:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Y'kum Purkan

>Another thread maybe - should we say "asher beBavel " nowadays when
>there are no talmidei chachamim there?

See Be'ur Halacha (end of 151, s.v. "Aval Bevatei") citing earlier
opinions that "Bavel" is often a reference to the Diaspora in general as
opposed to "Bavel gufa".

Interestingly, the Rosh to Taanis 10a wonders about waiting to start Tal
U'matar until rain is needed in Bavel. The Rosh asks: Just because we
use the Babylonian Talmud, should we invite agricultural disaster by
using its climate as a standard?
(See, however, the Korban Nesanel's comment there, Teshuvos Ha-Rosh
4:10, Sifsei Cohen to Devarim 11:11)



End of Volume 43 Issue 12