Volume 43 Number 27
                 Produced: Mon Jun 28 22:42:36 US/Eastern 2004

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Another Birkat Kohanim Question
         [Joshua Hosseinof]
Avot Transgressing Torah
         [Art Kamlet]
Mikvah being taught
         [Ken Bloom]
My daughter's wedding this sunday
         [Jeanette Friedman Sieradski]
Name Change
         [Aliza Berger]
Naming Customs
Obligation of being the "Tzenter"
         [Carl Singer]
one-handle faucets on Shabbat
         [Aliza Berger]
One-handle water faucets and work-arounds (3)
         [Carl Singer, Shmuel Norin, Carl Singer]


From: Joshua Hosseinof <JHosseinof@...>
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 12:42:35 -0400
Subject: re: Another Birkat Kohanim Question

Actually, it is not the normative practice for sephardim for a Kohen
shaliach tzibur to duchen, unless there is no other 13yr+ Kohen present.

If there is no other kohen present, and the kohen knows that he will not
become confushed, then the shaliach tzibur kohen generally just turns
around at the amud (and everyone makes sure to stand behind him), though
he could just as well go up to the bimah.  If the shaliach tzibur kohen
thinks that he might become confused by this process he should not
duchen.  If there are other kohanim present, he is not allowed to
duchen, either at the amud or on the bimah.  He also does not call out
the words to the other kohanim, instead another member of the
congregation calls out "Kohanim", and each of the words of the 3
pesukim.  See Shulchan Aruch Orach Chaim 128:20 All this is discussed in
Yalkut Yosef, in the additional volumes known as "Shearit Yosef".

On a separate point, if a kohen is in the middle of saying his shemoneh
esreh, and the shaliach tzibur gets up to Retzeh, modim, if the kohen is
at more or less the same location in his shemoneh esreh, then he should
go up to dukhan in the middle of his own shemoneh esreh.  He should
avoid saying any "yehi ratzon" before or after, but he says the berachah
before duchaning, and after duchaning, he should go back to his place
and finish saying Sim shalom.  On this point, the halacha is universal
to both ashkenazim and sefardim.  Washing hands is not a pre-requisite.


From: <Artkamlet@...> (Art Kamlet)
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 23:56:56 EDT
Subject: Re: Avot Transgressing Torah

> I've see this before but the Torah says that Yaakov married two living
> sisters, which is forbidden, and ....
> I've never seen a really satisfying answer on Yaakov's marriages to
> sisters.

One explanation I have heard is that Jacob converted each sister before
marrying them, so each of them was technically like a new born babe and
unrelated to each other.

ArtKamlet at aol dot com


From: Ken Bloom <kabloom@...>
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 14:45:23 -0700
Subject: Re: Mikvah being taught

Batya Medad <ybmedad@...> wrote on Thu, 24 Jun 2004 06:26:40 +0200
>       I don't know about all cities but the Bais Yaakov here in
>       Baltimore most definitely teaches about mikvah. It is presented to
>       the girls in their
> It's definitely taught in the religious schools in Israel.  And since
> the buildings are in public view in almost every community, there's less
> mystery.  Also I see that many families teach the kids from the time
> they're old enough to tovel new dishes, they're familiar with that
> aspect.

Neither of these convey the *importance* of the mitzvah of mikvah for a
married woman. One only teaches that the mitzvah exists, and the other
only teaches that the *building* exists. That is not comparable to
raising daughters with the understanding of the importance of the
mitzvah. So I hope that when I g-dwilling get married, that my wife will
properly convey the importance of this mitzvah to my children, and not
rely on their school to do it.


From: <FriedmanJ@...> (Jeanette Friedman Sieradski)
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 10:21:31 EDT
Subject: My daughter's wedding this sunday

I married our daughter off this past Sunday, and solved the fasting and
length problems altogether. As the family "outsider" I wanted to make
sure everyone, even my chassidishe/haredi mother and other members of my
immediate family were satisfied.  The mesader kedushin was Rabbi Sam

First, it was the second day of Rosh Chodesh, no fasting necessary. We
started the chosson's tish and kabbalat kallah at 11, with breakfast.  I
made sure that the RCA "get" prenup was signed at notarized at the same
time as the tenaim and the ketubah.  The speech that went with it, which
I made, said that my daughter will b"h never need this document, it is
meant for the girl next door, God-forbid she might, and if it doesn't
become pro-forma, and my daughter doesn't sign it, neither will she.

Well, the only people who grumped were my brother and my first cousins,
the agudishe hareidim.  Before the badekun, the rabbi sat the chosson
down and explained everything to him and the oilam, before he put the
veil over her face. It was very meaningful, and he explained the
kabbalah of the whole thing, and frum people who didn't know anything
about why they do things, came over and thanked me for having it all

Then it turned out, quite by accident, that I wound up giving the
kibudim under the chuppah because no one else could do it.....

We made tehelim booklets for prayers for peace in Israel and gave them
out with explanations of what happens at the ceremonies and sheet with
the cast of characters--asking people to read it instead of talk. the
rabbi gave a whole explanation again of what was going on under the
chuppah, they did yechud for about 15 minutes, and another 15 minutes
for the photos with the chossen that didn't get taken before the
badekin.  They were out on the dance floor within a half an hour.

We did a buffet of fish and vegan dishes and desserts--served non-stop.
along with the dancing. When it was time to bench, there were about 70
people still there and the ENTIRE BENCHING WAS SUNG OUT LOUD, which is

So carl, it has everything to do with how you set up the schedule!

jeanette friedman sieradski


From: Aliza Berger <alizadov@...>
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 00:01:25 +0200
Subject: Name Change

What is the halachic status of the first and middle names one is given
soon after birth? If you change your first and/or middle name legally
(in Israel, at the Ministry of the Interior), what halachic status does
that have? On a get, I assume all these names would have to be recorded,
but what about e.g., aliyot to the Torah, ketuba?

Aliza Berger, PhD
English Editing: editing-proofreading.com
Statistics Consulting: statistics-help.com


From: <Rebyitzmotcha@...>
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 00:12:51 EDT
Subject: Naming Customs

>Interested in knowing when the custom of naming newborn children after
>deceased family members began.

The question is really the other way around. When did the Ashkenazi
minhag stop naming after the living and began naming only after the dead.


From: Carl Singer <casinger@...>
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 09:16:42 -0400
Subject: Obligation of being the "Tzenter"

Many years ago my uncle Itzik, ztl, told me that he had a hard time
getting to his shule in the morning because while walking down Taylor
Road (at that time the main Jewish street in Cleveland) he would be pass
other shules and invariably someone would call out that they needed a
"tzenter" -- a tenth man for the minyan.

Can anyone point to halachic (not social) discussions re: obligations to
be the tzenter?

   1 - If they eventually get a minyan anyway (i.e., an 11th shows up a
   bit late.)
   2 - If it may jeopardize the minyan that you were heading towards.
   3 - If it disrupts your plans -- say attending a shiur.
   4 - If they daven a different nusach.
   5 - May cause you delay - monetary harm? - in being late for work.
   6 - It turns out you're not the 10th, but the 9th and a minyan still 
isn't guaranteed.
   7 - If this is a persistently reoccurring situation.

Carl Singer


From: Aliza Berger <alizadov@...>
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 13:36:32 +0200
Subject: one-handle faucets on Shabbat

If the faucet is clearly marked (hot/cold), is put in the totally cold
position before Shabbat begins, and children are instructed properly, I
do not see the problem.

Sincerely, Aliza
Aliza Berger, PhD - Director
English Editing: editing-proofreading.com
Statistics Consulting: statistics-help.com


From: Carl Singer <casinger@...>
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 08:36:14 -0400
Subject: One-handle water faucets and work-arounds

Kudos, Michael Mirsky's solution is quite interesting and works.  That
is by turning off the cold water intake to the Hot Water heater before
Shabbos, you have stopped the flow of hot water throughout your house so
there are no issues with accidentally using hot water.  Of course you
get NO hot water and NO warmed (tepid?) water.

Re: the various solutions that allow water to cool below Yad Soledes
(whatever temperature you assign to that) -- IFF the "physics" is
accurate, that is you use sufficient hot water after turning off the
heating element so the influx of cold water into the heater leaves a
resultant temperature that is below Yad Soledes there is no problem
within the heater BUT (I caution) there may still be hot water in the
pipes that is above Yad Soledes and that would be problematic.  I don't
want to say the solution is all wet, but consider this sequence of

X hours before Shabbos you turn off the hot water heater's heating
element and you use sufficient quantities of hot water (take showers?)
so that much cold water has entered the hot water heater (coupled with
cooling effect of poorly insulated heater) and thus the resultant
temperature within the hot water heater is below Yad Soldes.  I presume
you can measure water temperature both within the heater and at faucets
to verify temperatures.

BUT -- here's the disclaimer -- while the showers were going someone in
the kitchen used some hot water - perhaps to rinse a dish.  Thus the
water in the pipe between the heater and the kitchen faucet is thus hot
- essentially the same temperature that the hot water heater is normally
set for (at the time of use before Shabbos) and is now cooling down of
its own accord -- based on how well or poorly the pipe(s) is (are)
insulated. This water is NOT being mixed with cold water (as in the
heater, itself) so it may not be cooling as rapidly as that within the
heater.  If (shortly) after Shabbos has begun, someone uses that faucet,
the hot water component coming from the pipe may still be above Yad

I find myself being machmir (or at least cautious) on the physics of
this system.

Carl A. Singer

From: <Engineered@...> (Shmuel Norin)
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 12:55:28 -0400
Subject: Re: One-handle water faucets and work-arounds


Most of the hot water piping in the United States is 1/2", 3/4" or at
the most 1" copper tubing.  The water in small copper tubing and even
iron pipe will cool on its own very quickly. Even if you have put some
fiberglass or rubber insulation around the pipe, it cools much faster
than the contents of a hot water tank which has built-in insulation.
Proof-touch your hot water tank and it feels slightly warm to the touch
while if you touch the line leaving the tank, you could get a burn.
Back to your point.  The water in the pipe can only come from the
contents of the tank.  After a short time and a shower or two, the
contents in the tank will be luke warm and the contents in the pipe will
be even cooler.  You can be machmer on yourself and your family but
turning off the hot water early will not result in any violation of

Shmuel Norin

From: Carl Singer <casinger@...>
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 13:16:54 -0400
Subject: Re: One-handle water faucets and work-arounds

I don't question that water in the pipes cools down whether those pipes
are old lead, standard copper or newer PVC -- just at what rate.

There are several variables: the composition of the pipes, the layout,
proximity of water pipes to other heat sources, etc., the temperature
setting and other characteristics of the water heater, when the system
is shut down erev Shabbos, ambient household and outdoor temperatures,
whether it's (to quote you) "a shower or two", etc.

I'm not talking about maykel or machmir -- I'm just questioning the
PHYSICS by which one can assume that their actions have reduced all of
the water in the system to below Yad Soledes -- likely the best way
would be to experiment and measure (clearly not on Shabbos) to see if
their particular system does, indeed, cool in accordance with their
presumptions.  Doing so and then building in some margin of safety will
likely be lots of effort for very little gain -- If, for example, you
hold 104 Fahrenheit as Yad Soledes (per one posting) then starting off
Shabbos with water at, say, 100 F probably means that for most of
Shabbos your hot water system contains water that is barely above room
temperature.  Then motzei Shabbos you need to wait for everything to
heat back up in order to wash dishes, shower, etc.

Carl Singer


End of Volume 43 Issue 27