Volume 45 Number 27
                    Produced: Wed Oct 20  7:07:40 EDT 2004

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Chernobyl Donations (2)
         [<FriedmanJ@...>, David Curwin]
clop for "U'lchaparat Pasha" (3)
         [Stephen Phillips, Martin Stern, Lawrence Myers]
Correct Text for Birkat HaChodesh
         [Sam Gamoran]
Elokai Netzor
Glassware (2)
         [Josh Backon, Freda B Birnbaum]
Question re Siddurim
         [Martin Stern]
Religious schools and math reasoning
         [Ari Trachtenberg]
The Sefer, Tikkunei Shabbos
Separate Seating -- Multiples of Four
         [Carl Singer]
Shemot (2)
         [Ari Trachtenberg, Immanuel Burton]
Simchas Torah
         [Martin Stern]


From: <FriedmanJ@...>
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 06:19:11 EDT
Subject: Chernobyl Donations

Chabad runs Children of Chernobyl for medical care for children who were
injured by radiation in the meltdown.


From: David Curwin <tobyndave@...>
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:41:32 +0200
Subject: Chernobyl Donations

From: A Simple Jew <asimplejew@...>:

"In preparation for the yahrzeit of Rabbi Menachem Nachum of Chernobyl on
the 11th of Cheshvan, I want to find a Chernobyl organization that I can
give tzedakah to. I understand that the Skver Chassidim are part of the
Chernobyl dynasty and that they run the Yeshiva Avir Yakov in New Square.
Can someone confirm this?
Also, does any one know the names of any other "Chernobyl" or Skver
organizations, yeshivas, kollels, etc.?"

How about the Chabad's Children of Chernobyl at http://www.ccoc.net/


From: Yakir <yakirhd@...>
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:00:34 +0200
Subject: Chodesh

I apologize.

My statement "In Biblical etc Hebrew "Chodesh" refers to Rosh Chodesh
not to a month" was "chaser" (missing something).  There should have
been an "often" in there.

In fact, THE counterexample must be "hachodesh hazeh lachem ..." (at
least according to the pshat understanding).

"Chodesh" meaning the Rosh Chodesh ("time or renewal") can be seen in
"machar chodesh" (Sam I, 20:18) "lo chodesh v'lo chag" (Kings II, 4:23)
etc.  etc.

I think it is possible to argue that the "original"/"primary" meaning is
that of Rosh Chodesh - time of renewal.  Chodesh in the sense of "month"
is derived from this, similar to the extended meaning of "Shabat" which
also is used as "week"- "sheni b'shabat", "sheva shabatot".  In the case
of Shabbat we are more familiar with the "day of Shabbat" meaning,
whereas with "Chodesh" we are more familiar with the "extended period"


From: etzion <atzion@...>
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:10:41 +0200
Subject: Chumrot

          Those communities or individuals who use a Shabbat generator
or gas light because of the problem of work done by Jews are not
consistent- unless they also have an alternative source for water-as the
water comes from pumps operated by Mekorot on Shabbat!


From: Stephen Phillips <admin@...>
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:19:02 +0100
Subject: Re: clop for "U'lchaparat Pasha"

As did our Shammas (Lawrence Myers of this list); he called out
"Ul'chporas Posha" right before the silent Amidah. I for one am glad he
did, as I had forgotten it was a leap year.

Quaere whether it should be done on every Musaf Rosh Chodesh this year.

Stephen Phillips

From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:10:42 +0100
Subject: Re: clop for "U'lchaparat Pasha"

on 19/10/04 11:02 am, Neil Normand <nachmanyak@...> wrote:

> I don't ever recall seeing this done, does anyone know of shuls that
> remind their mitpallelim to recite u'lchaparat pasha?

> [The Rabbi did do so here in Allentown. Avi]

It was also announced by the gabbai after kaddish before mussaf in my
shul in Manchester on first day Rosh Chodesh. Since the second day was
shabbat, it might have been sensible to repeat the call for those, such
as the ladies, who had not heard it the previous day but it was not
called out again.

Martin Stern

From: Lawrence Myers <lawrence@...>
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 19:38:35 +0100
Subject: Re: clop for "U'lchaparat Pasha"

I am the Shamash at Kingsbury United Synagogue, London UK, and I made
sure to make such an announcement.

Lawrence Myers


From: Sam Gamoran <Sgamoran@...>
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:43:22 +0200
Subject: RE: Correct Text for Birkat HaChodesh

> From: Ira L. Jacobson <laser@...>
> Yakir <yakirhd@...> stated the following:
>       BTW In Biblical etc Hebrew "Chodesh" refers to Rosh Chodesh
>       not to a month.
> Genesis 8:5 refers to "hahodesh ha`asiri," which means the tenth month...
> Gen 29:14 refers to "hodesh yamim," which can mean only a full month...
> Exodus 23:15 refers to "hodesh ha'aviv" in the sense of a whole month...
> And of course Exodus 12:2, "Hahodesh hazeh lakhem rosh hodashim"...
> These were just rather a random selection of examples...

A counter example from the hafotrah of Machar Hodesh:

"Vayomer lo Yehonatan Machar Hodesh" clearly "hodesh" in this context
refers to the day of Rosh Hodesh.  I guess it depends on context.

Sam Gamoran


From: Jeff <jf@...>
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 08:17:48 -0500
Subject: Elokai Netzor

I was reading in the book Path to Prayer that the prayer Elokai Netzor
at the end of Shemoneh Esray is constituted as Tachanunim.  If that is
the case, why do we say it on Shabbos and Yom Tov when Tachanunim are
not allowed?


From: <BACKON@...> (Josh Backon)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:54:36 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Glassware

The Aruch Hashulchan ORACH CHAIM 451 #49-50 and the Bet Yosef TUR Orach
Chaim 451 (and the BACH there) give the history of the disagreement in
the halachic literature on the status of glass: whether it is like
*cheres* [earthenware] as per the gemara in Shabbat 15b "klei zechuchit
shenikvu ..", and thus one can NOT kasher it [as per the Trumat haDeshen
132; and like the Rema Orach Chaim 451:26 quoting the Semak and the
Agur]; whether it is like metal as per the gemara in Avoda Zara 75a
"amar rav ashi: hanei klei zechuchit...", where one CAN kasher it [as
per the Ritva in Pesachim 30b "v'ha'RA'A z"l lamed mikan she'klei
zechuchit shenishtamesh bahen b'chamin assur af al gav d'sagi l'hu
b'hag'ala"]; and like the Meiri AZ 75b "klei zechuchit einam matechet
u'mikol makom ho'il v'im nishberu yesh la'hem takana, heim k'klei
matechet"; [see also the Biuri haGRA OC 451 #83 quoting the gemara in AZ
33a and Pesachim 74b for a review] or whether we follow the Avot d'Rabbi
Natan 41:6 "3 dvarim biklei zechuchit: eino bole'a v'eino polet" [as per
Tosafot Avoda Zara 33b d"h kunya "peyrush hakuntrus:klei cheres metzupeh

For a modern view, see Sridei Eish 55 "b'din klei zechuchit
v'hachsharatam" quoting the Knesset Hagedola YD 121 that the stringency
of the Rema OC 451 is only regarding Pessach but not for during the
year, thus one is allowed to use a glass simply by washing it off (if it
was used for cold liquids).

Dr. Josh Backon
Hebrew University
Faculty of Medicine

From: Freda B Birnbaum <fbb6@...>
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 07:12:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Glassware

Akiva Miller writes:

> I am interested in how these terms (non-porous and non-absorptive) are 
> defined in that scientific context. The reason why I'm asking is that my 
> amateur experimentation had led me to conclude that glass *is* 
> absorptive, at least for some materials. The specific experiment 
> involves buying a glass bottle of apple juice, emptying it, washing it, 
> and then trying to use it as a water bottle. To me, the water always has 
> a faint taste of apple juice, even the fifth or tenth time I've reused 
> it. This seems to be contrary to the concept of "non-absorptive" as I 
> understand it.

More kitchen wisdom:

I'm guessing that the bottle you used has a very narrow opening, such that 
you can't get your hand in with a sponge to wipe of the surface, and that 
you've cleaned the bottle by rinsing and shaking only, so the inside 
surface never really got clean.

Freda Birnbaum


From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:05:17 +0100
Subject: Re: Question re Siddurim

on 19/10/04 11:18 am, Shmuel Himelstein <himels@...> wrote:

> In looking through the famous Roedelheim Siddur, I noticed that in its
> Tefillot for the Yamim Noraim (including Musaf for Rosh Hashanah and for
> Yom Kippur) it adds the Kedushah and the Modim D'Rabbanan, both of which
> are only recited during Chazarat HaShatz. Am I to assume from this that
> there were places that even during those Tefillot the Chazarat HaShatz
> was just a repetition of the regular Amidah, as opposed to what we use
> as find in our Machzorim, with all the added Piyyutim?

Not necessarily, just that piyutim are never included in a siddur, only
appearing in a machzor. The inclusion of Kedushah and the Modim
D'Rabbanan in the siddur has no more significance than that, if for some
reason no machzor is available, the davenning (without piyutim) can take

Martin Stern


From: Ari Trachtenberg <trachten@...>
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:55:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Religious schools and math reasoning

 >From: Shmuel Himelstein <himels@...>
 >In searching for an entirely different topic on the Internet, I found a
 >1997 article of Science News which claims that Talmudic reasoning makes
 >"ultra-Orthodox" students do better in their math studies.

Having read the article, I think it's Talmudic *experience* rather than
reasoning that helps "ultra-Orthodox" students.  The reasoning in the
Talmud is associative rather than deductive and, hence, very different
from mathematical reasoning.  However, Talmudic study does expose
students to geometric and mathematical problems (including those related
to volume, area, etc.), thereby giving them more experience than their
unexposed counterparts.

Just my $0.02,

Ari Trachtenberg,                                      Boston University
http://people.bu.edu/trachten                    mailto:<trachten@...>


From: <Shuanoach@...>
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 23:40:33 -0400
Subject: The Sefer, Tikkunei Shabbos

Does anyone knwo of any scholarly articles on this sefer, the Tikkunei
Shabbat?  All i could find was an article in Ohel Rachel of R. Hayyim
Lieberman on the different editions.



From: Carl Singer <casinger@...>
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 06:30:43 -0400
Subject: Separate Seating -- Multiples of Four

From: Sholom Parnes <merbe@...>
>Further to Carl Singer's post,
>Did you ever wonder why the HW WH seating works on some ocassions and
>not at others ?
>(Here comes my amateur mathematician side). It depends on the total
>number of people at the table.

Yes -- I had this discussion off line with someone else.  The caterer
needs to set up the table with a multiple of 4 chairs.  I.e., it works
for 4,8,12,16 -- at most simchas seating assignments are only to the
table level -- that is placecards are grouped near the entrance way and
all you're told is at what table you are sitting -- not where at the
table (at fancy state dinners, place cards are at the table designating
a specific seat.)

An aside -- at a wedding not long ago, I saw three tables on the men's
side (it was seperate seating) all with the same number on them.  The
host, cleverly, chose not to get involved with the "cousin A is not
speaking to cousin B" issue and having three tables worth of cousins (or
peers) set aside three tables and let them figure it out rather than
blame him.

Carl Singer


From: Ari Trachtenberg <trachten@...>
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:38:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Shemot

 >From: Nathan Lamm <nelamm18@...>
 >I recall being told, by an eyewitness (probably my father, who was in
 >his shiur, but I'll have to ask again) of an incident in which Rav Yosef
 >Dov Soloveitchik wrote "God" on the blackboard and erased it, to prove
 >the point that English names are not a "shem."

May one not erase God's Hebrew name from a blackboard?  I would think
that the temporary nature of the writing might preclude it from
requiring burial.

Ari Trachtenberg,                                      Boston University

From: Immanuel Burton <IBURTON@...>
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:17:24 +0100
Subject: RE: Shemot

Does the concept of writing "G-d" with a hyphen exist outside Jewish
circles?  I was recently on holiday/vacation in Toronto, and visited the
Black Creek Pioneer Village, which is a collection of nineteenth century
buildings from various parts of Ontario.  One of the buildings was a
school house dating from 1861.  The British national anthem was written
on the blackboard, and the word "G-d" was hyphenated.

Immanuel Burton.


From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:19:10 +0100
Subject: Re: Simchas Torah

on 19/10/04 11:02 am, Akiva Miller <kennethgmiller@...> wrote:

> Meir Possenheimer asked why <<< the Shelosh Esrai Middos and the
> following Tefillah are omitted prior to taking out the Sifrei Torah >>>
> on Simchas Torah.

> It's not just those two tefilos and Va'ani Tfilasi. The usual Brich
> Sh'meh which follows them is also skipped.

The custom of German Jews is never to say Brich Shemeih.

Martin Stern


End of Volume 45 Issue 27