Volume 45 Number 53
                    Produced: Wed Nov 10  4:49:05 EST 2004

Subjects Discussed In This Issue:

         [Avi Feldblum]
Alzheimer's / Halacha
         [Kenneth G Miller]
clop for "U'lchaparat Pasha"
         [Mike Gerver]
Davening with others --  was -- clop for "U'lchaparat Pasha"
         [Sam Saal]
Halacha and Sense (was: Alzheimer's/Halacha)
         [Mike Gerver]
Human Milk
         [Gershon Dubin]
Lecha Dodi
         [Shimon Lebowitz]
Modern Orthodoxy
         [Russell J Hendel]
No double parshiyot this year
         [Irwin Weiss]
Resp. Bnei Banim, vol. 4, is available
         [Prof. Aryeh A. Frimer]
Torah-Haftorah Readings
         [Russell J Hendel]


From: Avi Feldblum <mljewish@...>
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 21:03:52 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Administrivia

Hello All,

I am still getting used to the new interface, but it seems pretty
nice. If anyone working with the interface deletes themselves from the
list by mistake, and has any problems getting back on, feel free to
contact me.  One word of clarification. The FAQ talks about different
types of digests.  I'm still creating issues the same way that has been
done for several years now. If you choose digest mode, what you will get
is a digest composed of the current days issues rolled into one
email. Feel free to let me know what does and does not work for you, and
I will feed that back to the Shamash team.



From: Kenneth G Miller <kennethgmiller@...>
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 16:15:12 -0500
Subject: Re: Alzheimer's / Halacha

Shmuel Carit asked <<< Isn't there such a thing as halchik "intuitive
sense?" In the realm of right and wrong; what's better and what's worse,
don't we sometimes allow the stoic halacha to bend towards deracheha
darcheiu noam and kavod habriyot, rather than towards the strict? >>>

I think the critical word in this question is "bend". How far can it bend
without breaking?

Yes, there are many factors which contribute towards what is right or
wrong in any given situation. But without an understanding of BOTH the
halachic requirements and the medical requirements, both the rabbi and
the people will be unable to come to the best solution.

The proper course, as I see it, is for the people involved to learn the
halachos, and for their rabbi to understand the medicine, and *that's*
when "intuitive sense" will begin to have value. Until then, what we
perceive as "intuition" may simply be guesswork or wishful thinking.

Akiva Miller


From: <MJGerver@...> (Mike Gerver)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 17:40:17 EST
Subject: clop for "U'lchaparat Pasha"

Shimon Lebowitz writes, in v45n49

      I have more than once remembered yaaleh veyavo at the beginning,
      but not at retzei! :-(

I do things like that all the time, and also appreciate the verbal
reminders. Another thing that happens to me a lot is reminding myself,
early in the tefillah, that I have to remember to say something, and then
not remembering, afterwards, if I said it or not. I'm pretty sure that in
many of these cases, I have not said it. But fortunately, in this case,
there is a chazakah that I have said it, so I don't have to repeat the
tefillah. The legal presumption is that no one would be so absent minded
as to forget in such a short time. Though I am sure that they did not
have in mind people like me, I'm glad that this chazakah exists, or I
would likely be endlessly repeating the tefillah, forgetting again and

Mike Gerver
Raanana, Israel


From: Sam Saal <ssaal@...>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 07:26:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Davening with others --  was -- clop for "U'lchaparat Pasha"

Martin Stern <md.stern@...> wrote [regarding a gentleman who
always came late to Tefila]

While I might have some difficulty understanding (without asking him)
why he follows his minhag of out-loud davening even when late, the
lateness itself doesn't bother me. We don't know that he does not have a
very good reason for being late week after week.

My father explains his family's multi-generational custom of being late
to shul as an act of kindness to the person who is always early, but
this time is late and embarrassed by it. This person is relieved to see
he is not the last to come to shul.

And, yes, my father's family is Yekkie, in some ways, stereotypically.

Sam Saal
Vayiptach HaShem et peah HaAtone


From: <MJGerver@...> (Mike Gerver)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 17:02:32 EST
Subject: Halacha and Sense (was: Alzheimer's/Halacha)

Shmuel Carit asks, in v45n49,

      Isn't there such a thing as halchik "intuitive sense?" In the
      realm of right and wrong; what's better and what's worse, don't we
      sometimes allow the stoic halacha to bend towards deracheha
      darcheiu noam and kavod habriyot, rather than towards the strict?

Absolutely. First of all, darchei noam and kavod habriyot are themselves
important halachic principles, no less important than "ritual"
principles. But it goes beyond that. My father-in-law's high school
Hebrew school teacher and cousin by marriage, Rabbi Isaiah Rackovsky
zt"l, liked to say that there is another book of the Shulchan Aruch that
is just as important as Yoreh Deah, Choshen Mishpat, etc. It's called
"Common Sense."

Mike Gerver
Raanana, Israel


From: Gershon Dubin <gershon.dubin@...>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 21:41:09 GMT
Subject: Human Milk

From: Irwin Weiss <irwin@...>

<<Well, there is one more example of a substance that comes from a
non-Kosher animal which is yet Kosher.....................Milk from a
human is frequently consumed by the infant offspring of the human.  It
is, beyond any doubt, Kosher, while humans are not themselves Kosher.>>

It is not kosher EXCEPT for infants; adults are not permitted to drink
human milk.



From: Shimon Lebowitz <shimonl@...>
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 22:17:09 +0200
Subject: Re: Lecha Dodi

>      The minhag to turn around and face backwards at boee v'shalom
> during lecha dodi,
> [This was discussed in volume 37, issues 73,74 and 79. Basically, you
> should be turning West, not necessarily back or towards entrance. See
> details there. Mod.]

I was somewhat amused this last shabbat when I was in Mitzpe Yericho,
roughly east of Yerushalayim.  We got to Bo'ee veshalom and some of the
people turned to the *back* of the shul, some turned *right* to the
entrance, and some stayed facing *forward*, to the west (this group
included the chazzan and myself).

I was only a one-time guest, but from seeing the diverse actions I
assume this goes on every shabbat.

Shimon Lebowitz                           mailto:<shimonl@...>
Jerusalem, Israel            PGP: http://www.poboxes.com/shimonpgp


From: Russell J Hendel <rjhendel@...>
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 17:19:57 -0500
Subject: RE: Modern Orthodoxy

I recently suggested that there was no clean way to define Charedi vs
non-Charedi. In recent issues two definitions appeared: a) positive
attitude towards secular education vs non-positive attitude (positive
being defined as TO BEGIN WITH you should go to college) and b) wearing

I think an analytic approach will show that this is not the basis for
defining a movement. University education involves three issues: a)
obtaining a vocation b) exposure to immodesty c) exposure to
non-doctrinal Jewish beliefs.

First I point out that many non-Charedi Modern Orthodox parents use
these concepts in their daily life. For example I know NY parents who
would not send their children to out of NY colleges because of what goes
on there. I knew one couple who sent their daughters to an all girls
college in a town isolated from a Jewish community---here the concern
for modesty outwayed social needs. My point here is not that Charedi
parents would act the same way but rather that the same issues are
addressed by all sects---hence these issues cannot be used to DEFINE a
difference in sects.

Furthermore my understanding is that there are some Charedi people who
say are involved in computers and other types of vocations---here
vocational training is seen as permissable (possibly to BEGIN WITH).

What emerges is that the Charedi would probably advocate a college
setting that a) gets straight to vocational training b) avoids exposure
to general studies with non-doctrinal views c) hosts a modest
environment. If such colleges existed perhaps Charedi leadership would
encourage their followers to go there.

The issue of wearing stockings I have addressed previously It is
not productive to define a movement in terms of behaviors that
some of us will sometimes need---if a Modern Orthodox couple having
troubles with their marriage adopts (for awhile) a more stringent
dress code they are not behaving charedi. Similarly if a charedi couple
on the verge of divorce gets permission to engage (at least in their
own house) with more exposed dress than they should not be classified
as modern orthodox.

My main point here is that by classifying people as Charedi vs
Non-charedi we are simply creating labels and closing the door.  By
identifying common issues within a shared Jewish community-- the issues
of modesty, vocational training, positive doctrines, balance between
modesty and stimulation within marriage--by identifying these issues as
shared we all stand to learn and gain.

Russell Jay Hendel; http://www.Rashiyomi.com/


From: Irwin Weiss <irwin@...>
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 15:04:03 -0500
Subject: No double parshiyot this year

Just realized that there are no double parshiyot this year, due to leap
year and when Yom Tovim occur.  First time this has happened since
around 1980.



From: Prof. Aryeh A. Frimer <frimea@...>
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 16:34:26 +0200
Subject: Resp. Bnei Banim, vol. 4, is available

    The latest volume of She'elot uTeshuvot Bnei Banim, vol. 4, is
available, and having read through a large portion of it - I warmly
recommend it.  It is replete with responsa regarding women and halakha,
as well as a variety of other very fascinating modern issues.

    It will be available in the USA and Canada beginning January, 2005
via Yashar Books, 1548 East 33rd Street, Brooklyn, NY 11234, tel. (718)
951-1254. To receive the volume before then, send US $10 plus $7 airmail
to Rav Yehuda Henkin, 1 Nurock Street, 96109 Jerusalem, Israel. Dollar
checks should be made payable to Rabbi Henkin.

    For those in Israel, the price is 25 NIS plus 5 NIS mailing.
available from Rav Henkin at the address above. The Shekel checks should
be made out to "Keren haHessed."  Copies are also available at
"Nishmat", 27 Michlin Street, Bayit veGan, Jerusalem (Tel. 02-6421050).

Dr. Aryeh A. Frimer
Chemistry Dept., Bar-Ilan University
Ramat Gan 52900, ISRAEL
E-mail: <FrimeA@...>


From: Russell J Hendel <rjhendel@...>
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 17:19:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Torah-Haftorah Readings

Yisroel Dubitsky v45n48 asks about the Torah-Haftorah
distinctions. WITHOUT citing halachik sources it might be useful to
explain the status of these items. Reading Torah, Haftorah and Megilloth
revolves around 4 principles.

It is important to emphasize that according to everybody the primary
obligation of reading the Torah is to fulfill the commandment to
learn. The Prophet-sages of the great assembly understood that many
people work double digit hours every day and do not have time to fulfill
the BIblical obligation to learn. Therefore they enacted short learning
sessions every Monday and Thursday.

The primary obligation of reading the Torah on Shabbath is also
learning. This is also true for the Haftorah and even for some of the
megilloth (The primary reason we read Megillath ester on Purim is to
publicize the miracle and thank God).

There are ADDITIONAL reasons for reading the Torah: For example---there
are views that the reading is a reenactment of Mount Sinai--thus the
reading signifies acceptance of Gods commands. That is why some people
stand for the reading of the Torah (Because it connotes acceptance).

Since Biblical vs Prophetic prophecy differ in that Biblical prophecy is
literal why Prophetic prophecy follows the style of each particular
prophecy therefore some people show a greater emphasis on accuracy in
the Torah. Furthermore the details of the Torah-text imply many laws.

There is one other very strong component in reading the Torah which is
sometimes underestimated: There is a committment not to embarass
people. Hence our modern custom of letting one person read (because if
each person had to read some might be embarassed if they didnt know
how). Perhaps for this reason some places use a silent chanting of the
Haftorah (because many people do not know how to chant).

The laws of correcting reading are rather complicated---but they do
involve the 4 principles I mentioned: a) is learning being accomplishd
b) is the literal accuracy of the Biblical text being attested to c) is
the acceptance of Gods will being done d) are we embarassing anyone.

As a simple example if a person ended a verse with an A vs an O sound
(MitzrAyim vs MitzrOyim) then Jewish law does not require
correction. This is consistent with the principle that learning is being
accomplished (Mitzrayim and Mitzroyim have the same meaning). I would
further conjecture that it is prohibited to correct the person as this
would embarass him--discourage him from leining and intefer with the
primary goal of Learning.

Russell Jay Hendel; http://www.Rashiyomi.com/


End of Volume 45 Issue 53