Volume 50 Number 34
                    Produced: Wed Nov 30  6:09:36 EST 2005

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Canadian and US Thanksgiving (2)
         [Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz, <ERSherer@...>]
Disclosure of Rabbi's salary (2)
         [Russell J Hendel, Ari Trachtenberg]
         [Leah S. Gordon]
House for Sale: San Jose/Willow Glen
         [Keith Bierman]
Internet Ban
Internet Bans
         [Ari Trachtenberg]
Internet Bans / Philosophy of Fences
         [Stuart Pilichowski]
Kohein marrying Convert (2)
         [W. Baker, I. Balbin]
Psychiatrist in Tel Aviv
         [Mark Symons]
Starbucks - two different things
         [Leah S. Gordon]


From: Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz <sabba.hillel@...>
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 07:48:10 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Canadian and US Thanksgiving

>From: Bernard Raab <beraab@...>
>Actually, we do it because it is just a nice way to entertain a houseful
>of family and friends when they are off from work and school and can
>drive to you, so they don't have to spend the night and all of the next
>day! And unlike Sunday, no regular events are scheduled, and the next
>day is at least a semi-holiday also. The fact that it is not a specific
>religious holiday makes it "kosher" of course, but it is NOT from
>pressure to conform--those feelings are so 50's and 60's. The only
>concession we make to the occasion is the inevitable weak joke about
>saying "yaaleh v'yavo" at bentching.

Since Thursday is a legal holiday and many companies give off Friday (or
many people take it as vacation) it is a good time to travel to the
family.  For example, my son made the kiddush for his new daughter on
"Thanksgiving Shabbos".  Actually, the "special meal" on Thursday night
was pizza and falafel witht he turkey reserved for the Shabbos Friday
night meal (since so many people came for Shabbos).

It is not a matter of "observing" a nonJewish holiday so much as taking
advantage of an opportunity.  If there were similar "holidays" in other
countries, Jews in those countries would take advantage of them as well.

Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz | Said the fox to the fish, "Join me ashore"
<Sabba.Hillel@...> | The fish are the Jews, Torah is our water

From: <ERSherer@...>
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 13:09:08 EST
Subject: Re: Canadian and US Thanksgiving

    In some states (Massachusetts is one of them) the day has been
declared a legal holiday, which means that many businesses are forbidden
to do business that day even if they wanted to. (This year, the Attorney
General sent a letter to one of the chain stores which wanted to be open
warning them that they would be prosecuted if they opened.


From: Russell J Hendel <rjhendel@...>
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 22:29:21 -0500
Subject: RE: Disclosure of Rabbi's salary

Jeanette's comment (that Rabbis sometimes get paid too little) touches
on the Talmudic approach: Have a well paying job and be a Rabbi/Teacher
on the side(like eg the Rambam) These days this is very
practical---there are several professions (eg programmer) that you can
do "as you have time" make a descent salary and still have lots of time
left to devote to the community. This has been discussed before. Dont
know if anyone is interested to do it again. One new point (just
mentioned by me) is that times have changed and it is possible these
days to both have a good job and be a Rabbi

Russell Jay Hendel; http://www.Rashiyomi.com/

From: Ari Trachtenberg <trachten@...>
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 10:37:02 -0500
Subject: Re: Disclosure of Rabbi's salary

> From: <FriedmanJ@...> (Jeanette Friedman)
> 501-c3s need to reveal all their budgets in all their manifestations and
> expenditures and revenues. You cannot bury the rabbi's salary--you might
> just as well bury the rabbi.
> Why try to weasel your way out of paying him decently?

In fact, I suspect that the reasoning is exactly the opposite of this in
the common case.  I submit that often the board is trying to hide how
*large* the rabbi's salary is so that congregants do not get upset.
After all, a rabbi can always disclose his salary voluntarily if he
feels he is being underpaid.

Ari Trachtenberg,                                      Boston University
http://people.bu.edu/trachten                    mailto:<trachten@...>


From: Leah S. Gordon <leah@...>
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 17:14:51 -0800
Subject: "Freakonomics"

Has anyone else read the recent best-seller _Freakonomics_?  It is
interesting in this forum, I think, because the list of U.S. boys' names
"most likely signifying a correlation with high maternal education"
includes several very Jewish ones.  For instance, 'Akiva' is #2 and both
'Dov' and 'Zev' appear there as well, I believe.

I thought it was interesting not just that Jewish women in the U.S. tend
to be college-educated (this I think is well-documented), but that
certain kinds of Jewish names (e.g. not so biblical, Hebrew more than
Yiddish, and also male more than female) are more correlated with the
high education.

--Leah (mom to an Akiva, whose data was probably included in the study
since we lived in the right time/place for the sample set taken - and
mom to an Ezra whose data was too late for the study)


From: Keith Bierman <keith.bierman@...>
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 22:56:49 -0500
Subject: House for Sale: San Jose/Willow Glen

My thanks to those who helped in our investigation of the Jewish aspects
of the Denver area. We have decided to move, and have put our SJ house
up for sale.

Located aprox .5 miles from both of San Jose's Orthodox schuls, and one
of it's older Conservative synagogues as well. 5bedroom/3bath aprox 3970
sqft, with two huge offices upstairs and a gigantic library between them
(one of the offices has hosted 30 people for minyanim, and has a
handwashing sink located by the door). The gourmet kitchen features
separate oversized sinks (steel), and granite counters which have been
dedicated milkchik and feilshik since installation. There are two

A virtual tour of the house, and agent contact information may be found
at: http://www.tourfactory.com/249821

For those not already acquainted with the San Jose area (but plan to ;>)
Willow Glen is a section of the City (for the historically minded, it
was once a city of it's own, but was absorbed by San Jose many years
ago; for the pedantic the neighborhood of Willow Glen includes some
areas which were not annexed by the City, and remain Unincorporated
County. This property is located in such a pocket. Aside from not paying
some city taxes and not voting on purely City issues, the primary impact
is better secular schools --- for middle and highschool it counts as
"Campbell" rather than San Jose Unified; a factor unlikely to be
terribly influential ... I imagine most readers of this list would
prefer the Jewish Day Schools ;>)


From: <Skyesyx@...>
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 02:10:23 -0500
Subject: Internet Ban

I think the problem people have with the Lakewood internet ban lies in
its draconian measures -- if you have internet in your home without
written permission from (several?) acceptable rabbis your child will be
summarily expelled.

I don't think anyone really would oppose limiting/supervising children's
internet access.


From: Ari Trachtenberg <trachten@...>
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 10:42:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Internet Bans

From: Akiva Miller <kennethgmiller@...>
> It should be okay for a non-Jewish worker to cook an entire meal in a
> kosher kitchen, but we're afraid it will lead to intermarriage unless
> the Jew participates in the cooking.

Interestingly enough, the straightforward reading of the mishna brura
(sorry, I don't have the source offhand, but it's well known) is that
the Shabbat cooking of a *Jew* is permitted to every one but that Jew.
Would there thus be a halachic objection (certainly there would be a
social and moral objection) to having a non-observant "shabbat Jew"
cooking for you on Shabbat?

Ari Trachtenberg,                                      Boston University
http://people.bu.edu/trachten                    mailto:<trachten@...>


From: Stuart Pilichowski <cshmuel@...>
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 16:53:23 +0000
Subject: Re: Internet Bans / Philosophy of Fences

Perhaps Akiva Miller is correct.

So I get this nagging question that I think bothers lots of God fearing
people. Aren't I mature enough not to need the fences the Rabbis have
put on in (too?) many instances?

Can't you trust me not to carry my arba minim in public on shabbat? Or
not to re-string my guitar on shabbat? In Israel I see lotsa kids riding
their bikes on shabbat ....... when I grew up in Brooklyn 40 years ago
we did also...... then it became ossur....

Can anyone suggest some sources or offer some hashkafa here?

Stuart Pilichowski
Mevaseret Zion, Israel


From: W. Baker <wbaker@...>
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 15:59:24 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Kohein marrying Convert

Elazar M. Teitz <remt@...> > Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 13:32:43 GMT
> It's explicit in Shulchan Aruch (Even Haezer 6:8) that a kohein may not
> marry a convert even if the conversion took place before the age of
> three.

That this is the halalcha I have no question with.  What I was stating
was what Chazal , at the time of the formation of the Talmud,
apparently, held such a view.  That the Shulchan Aruch seems to note
that the kohein may not marry a convert, even if the conversion took
place before the age of three, indicates that someone in the days before
the Shulchan Aruch, felt that those converted under the age of three wee
in some form different than those converted over that tender age.  That
is the only point I was making, not a discussion of current halacha.

Wendy Baker

From: I. Balbin <isaac@...>
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 12:48:33 +1100
Subject: Kohein marrying Convert

On a related note, the issue of a Kohein marrying the daughter of a
convert is less clear in that it would appear to not be prohibited
although some say it is not advisable in that it "taints yichus" I have
no idea how that issue is dealt with in practice today.


From: Mark Symons <msymons@...>
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 00:17:17 +1100
Subject: Psychiatrist in Tel Aviv

Does anyone know of a psychiatrist in Tel Aviv who can treat Adult ADHD?

Mark Symons
Melbourne Australia


From: Leah S. Gordon <leah@...>
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 18:48:03 -0800
Subject: Starbucks - two different things

With regard to the Christmas decorations, I emailed Starbucks and got
the same form letter reply (including their Chanukah offerings which
yes, was annoying; I agree with Nachum Lamm).

With regard to Andy Goldfinger's letter to them about homophobia: I
respectfully claim that Mr. Goldfinger is out of line.  Surely, we want
a secular company to be in favor of fair treatment and equal
rights/privileges (in employment etc.) for all people.  Whether or not
you have "moral" objections or whatever is totally irrelevant in this

It's actually kind of the same issue - we would like Starbucks to leave
the Christmas out of the coffee...I think this goes hand-in-hand with
leaving the religiously-based-homophobia out of the coffee too.  (This
is true even if you think that there ought to be

(Whatever some MJ'ers may say, 'homophobia' is the right word here.  It
means, in modern usage, the tendency to discriminate against people by
virtue of the fact that they are gay/lesbian.)

--Leah Sarah Reingold Gordon


End of Volume 50 Issue 34