Volume 51 Number 87
                    Produced: Mon Apr  3  7:01:36 EDT 2006

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Erev Pesach at Drisha
         [Freda B Birnbaum]
Kitzur not halacha
         [Bernard Raab]
Lay-Person Selling Chametz
Neturei Karta
Portable Eiruv for Camping
         [Martin Stern]
Supplement to the Haggada
         [David Mescheloff]


From: Freda B Birnbaum <fbb6@...>
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 13:03:53 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Erev Pesach at Drisha

Once again, Drisha Institute offers some very worthwhile pre-Pesach
programming.  I'm happy to help publicize it.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Judith Tenzer <jtenzer@...>
Erev Pesach Programs at Drisha
March 31, 2006

Menachem Leibtag - Monday, April 3
"Understanding Magid: A Biblical Perspective" is the subject of Menachem
Leibtag's pre-Pesach class on Monday, April 3, 12:30 - 2:00 p.m.  $30
(includes lunch) Dedicated to Beth Samuels, Batsheva Refaela bat Ita
Chana, wishing her a refuah shleimah, the class will be followed by

Register now 212.595.0307 or email <dsmerka@...> - 

Adam Mintz - Tuesday, April 4
"Eliyahu HaNavi in Jewish Law and Custom" is the subject of Adam Mintz's
pre-Pesach class on Tuesday, April 4, 6:00 - 7:30 p.m. $25

Register today 212.595.0307 or <dsmerka@...> - 

A Night of Learning about Darfur - April 5
Join the full-time students of Drisha Institute for a night of
Beit-Midrash learning about Pesach, our obligation as Jews to combat
genocide and how this relates to the current situation in Darfur.
Wednesday, April 5, 6:30 - 8:30 p.m. Free Admission.

A Call to Your Conscience: Save Darfur
Join members of the Drisha community in traveing to the rally in
Washington, DC on April 30. Travel together on buses from Manhattan,
returning the same day.  The rally will feature political figures,
religious leaders, human rights activists, entertainers, journalists and
thousands of others.

Sign up today for a seat on the bus to Washington, DC. Choose Drisha
Institute as your affiliation when making your $30 reservation. -

Parashat HaShavua with Rabbi David Silber, April 25 and May 2
We are pleased to invite women to register for two Parashat HaShavua
classes with Rabbi David Silber, who will be returning from Israel after
Pesach. April 25 and May 2, 11:00 a.m. - 12:30 p.m. $50

Register today 212.595.0307 - 

All programs take place at Drisha Institute, 37 West 65th Street, 5th
Best wishes to you and your family from all of us at Drisha for a chag
kasher vesameach.

Judith Tenzer
Drisha Institute
email: <jtenzer@...>
web: http://www.drisha.org


From: Bernard Raab <beraab@...>
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:46:42 -0500
Subject: RE: Kitzur not halacha

>From: Shoshana L. Boublil <toramada@...>
>This is an excellent example of how NOT to read a shu"t.
>First of all, the answer depends on the question.  SBA has not brought
>fwd the full question.  From the answer I would presume that the
>question involved going to a shul on Shabbat for a Minyan made up of
>people who drove to shul on Shabbat to partake in this Minyan.  The
>answer -- to daven at home, in private, makes perfect sense then.

Does it really? Even if you hold that this is not a legal minyan for
"d'varim b'kadusha", what is to prevent you from attending and not
answering to "borchu" or responding with "amen" to brachot? How
different would it be from davening in an empty shul? As Shoshana points
out, there may be good reasons, and is generally considered meritorious,
not to separate yourself from the tzibur. Why wouldn't this be a
preferred approach for those who feel that the minyan is not "kosher"? I
am assuming, of course, that the shul is otherwise properly configured
for gender separation, etc.

b'shalom--Bernie R.


From: <chips@...>
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 20:49:29 -0700
Subject: Re: Lay-Person Selling Chametz

> And he took my things to his cubicle: e.g. my hot-pot, oatmeal
> packets, mug, whatever.  After the chag, I think he'd eaten some of it
> :) but agreed to sell me back the hot-pot.

> --Leah

the hot-pot?! wow, to me , a hot-pot is a hot-pot but my mug is MY MUG.

When I lived in NYC, I had a much easier time selling my chometz (such
as it was - I usually have very little left as I start planning Rosh
Chodesh Shvat) as the Goyim were not totally unaware of the whole
situation.  Now-a-days I've given up trying to explain things to the
Jews around here much less the Goyim and I just dump my things in the
office kitchen and send out a note telling everyone to take what they



From: SBA <sba@...>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 01:18:47 +1000
Subject: Neturei Karta

From: P.V. Viswanath <>
> I am certainly not pro-Neturei Karta.  However, I must say that my
> eyes were opened to the issue that Martin Stern raised, after a shiur
> that my rabbi gave to show that the anti-medina position of certain
> rabbis was not well-founded.  Contrary to my rabbi's intention, I
> realized for the first time that, in fact, the anti-medina position
> can be held by bnei Torah.  The argument that Yisrael brought from the
> Vilna Gaon's students is certainly a valid basis for rejecting the
> Three Adjurations, but it doesn't look to me like it's a knock-down
> argument that demands that you have to absolutely reject the Three
> Adjurations.  In other words, to show that the anti-medina position
> doesn't hold water, it is not sufficient to find support for the
> pro-medina position, you have to show that the anti-medina position is
> impossible to hold.

First I would like to reiterarte that the actions/views of those
meshugoim who go by the name of NK are totally rejected by all
mainstream and normal Charedim - including Satmar, Edah Hacharedis,
Toldos Aharon etc etc.

But the main thing I wish to point out is that there is NO WAY a person
can even begin to truly to understand the so-called 'anti-medina'
position without first studying the sefer Vayoel Moshe by the Satmar
Rebbe zt'l, the 1st section called "Maamar Sholosh Shevuos".

After having gone through this, one may be able to try a debate a point
or 2. Not before.

BTW, it is a user-friendly sefer which even if one is not a major Talmid
Chacham will be able to understand.  It is also well indexed and has a
digest of each [short] chapter at the end.

From: <Smwise3@...>
>    Whether anyone wants to acknowledge that the Neturei Karta has
> support, does anyone believe that Hakadosh Baruch Hu would condone
> advocating destructing of the state that would inevitbaly result in the
> death of Jews?

Of course not. And the Satmar Rebbe in the abovementioned sefer CLEARLY
writes against any idea of handing Israel over to the Arabs CV.



From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:34:08 +0000
Subject: Portable Eiruv for Camping

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:48:08 EST <MJGerver@...> (Mike Gerver) wrote:
> Martin Stern writes, in v51n78, about establishing a tachum shabbat for a
> camping trip:
>> Also hanging it on a tree makes it inaccessible on Shabbat (mishtameish
>> be'ilan) and invalidates the eiruv. What Mike presumably meant was that
>> it should be left UNDER a tree (or some other convenient safe place).
> I did not mean hanging it from a tree at too great a height to
> reach. I meant suspending it from a tree, at a height that you can
> reach from the ground, so that animals have a harder time getting at
> it. If you leave it exposed on the ground, so that animals are likely
> to eat it before Shabbat, I would think that might invalidate it,
> since there would not be a chazaka that it was still there when
> Shabbat began. Not that suspending it from a tree is any guarantee
> that animals won't eat it. I remember the squirrels in my parents'
> backyard doing amazing acrobatic feats to get at the birdseed in the
> supposedly squirrel-proof birdfeeder they had suspended from a tree.

But one is halachically not allowed to use a tree on Shabbat at all so
one cannot take the eiruv suspended from it even if it were within
reach.  However, it could be left in a locked box at its base which
animals would be unable to open.

Martin Stern


From: David Mescheloff <djm765@...>
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 03:20:53 +0200
Subject: Supplement to the Haggada

Last year, for the first time, my wife and I had the supplement to the
haggada (explanation below), which we have been using for about ten
years, printed in an attractive color format and distributed throughout
Israel before Pesach. We brought it to the attention of mail-Jewish
readers then, too.  G-d willing, it will be distributed again erev
Shabbat ha-Gadol in synagogues throughout Israel.

   I hope that, together, we can add another meaningful component to
many people's sedarim this year and in the years to come.  Please let
friends and family in Israel know about it.  Many people told me that it
disappeared quickly last year, so we are making it available for
downloading over the internet.

You can download the files for printing at home in the quantity needed
for seder participants - in color or in black and white, and you can
read more background information about the supplement, at the following


  Someone brought to my attention the following discussion concerning
the supplement on a haredi forum last year; the response was generally
quite positive, to my pleasant surprise (although the halachic
legitimacy of this supplement is clearly beyond question).  See:

The supplement has also appeared, with explanation, at Bar-Ilan's weekly
parsha site


Shalom Berger, of Bar-Ilan's Lookstein Center for Jewish Education in
the Diaspora has graciously made the pages available for downloading
from the Lookstein site:

The color version can be accessed at
It is also available in Black & White at

The Order of our Festive Passover Meal

After we say kiddush and eat some appetizers, the children's curiosity
about the unusual foods on the seder table and the cushions on the
chairs reaches a peak when we pour the wine for a second cup, instead of
washing our hands and beginning our festive meal immediately, as we
usually do on Shabbat and holidays.  They ask why this night is
different from all others.  We begin to answer the children's questions
by telling of our Exodus from Egypt - whose anniversary we mark on this
night - in two different styles: "We were slaves ... and G-d took us out
... " and "Our ancestors were idol worshippers ... and now G-d brought
us near".

The haggada has us continue to tell the story of our Exodus from Egypt
by reading four verses from the Torah (in the book of Devarim), and
commenting on them.  These verses are from the speech of gratitude to
G-d that is to be recited by the person who brings his first fruits to
the Temple in Jerusalem (earlier: to the tabernacle in Shilo), between
Shavuot and Succot.  These four verses tell the story of our descent
into slavery in Egypt, our becoming a great nation, our suffering, our
crying out to G-d, and G-d's redeeming us from Egypt.  These verses are
the basis for the gratitude of the bringer of his first fruits, who
recalls our humble beginnings and thanks G-d for the wonderful gifts G-d
has given him.

These same verses were chosen by our sages as the concise vehicle for
fulfilling the commandment to tell the story of the Exodus on the night
of the Seder.  Each verse is first recited whole, and then is broken
down into segments, and comments are made on each segment so as to shed
light on the deeper meaning of the verse.  This continues until we reach
the piyyut (liturgical poem) "dayyenu", in which we thank G-d for all
that G-d did for us in bringing us out of Egypt, including bringing us
to the land of Israel and building the Temple.

The fifth verse said by the bringer of the first fruits is "And you
brought us to this place, and you gave us this land, flowing with milk
and honey."  This was left out of the haggada, even though the Mishna
and Maimonides both stated that one should read the declaration of the
bringer of the first fruits to its conclusion.  Perhaps it was too
painful to say "and you brought us to this place" etc in the darkness of
exile; perhaps the author of the haggada did not want to encourage
people to think that the land of exile in which they found themselves
was "the promised land".  In any event it would have been false.

Since we Jewish people are now privileged to be coming home to Israel,
for over ten years my family has been adding the fifth verse in the
appropriate place in the haggada, together with several comments on its
component phrases.  The halachic sources encourage expanding on the
Exodus story in this way.  Obviously, this addition is not for use
outside of Israel.

If you have difficulty downloading the PDF files or the Word files from
the above sites, you can write to me directly and I will be glad to send
you the appropriate file.

If you do not have a PDF file reader, for reading and printing the
attached files, you should be able to download one free at

  http://www.adobe.com/products/a crobat/readstep2.html

Best wishes to all of Israel, for a happy and kosher Pesach!

Rabbi Dr. David and Irene Mescheloff
Moshav Hemed
50295 Israel


End of Volume 51 Issue 87