Volume 52 Number 87
                    Produced: Tue Oct 10  6:25:59 EDT 2006

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

The Ari date of birth.
         [Gilad J. Gevaryahu]
'Body Works'
         [Aryeh Meir]
Fear of punishment
         [Ari Trachtenberg]
Live in Fear vs Do Teshuv; To-God vs To-Man Commandments
         [Russell J Hendel]
Molad Calculation
         [Richard Fiedler]
Netruei Karta meets with Ahmadinejad
         [Eitan Fiorino]
New web site from the HebrewOnline.com family
         [Adi Sheleg]
Sukkot on the J Site and 65 holiday links
         [Jacob Richman]


From: <Gevaryahu@...> (Gilad J. Gevaryahu)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 09:34:11 EDT
Subject: The Ari date of birth.

Rabbi Meir Wise in MJv52n85 says:

> It is well known that the Ari was an ashkenazi! Born in the Old City
> of Jerusalem in1534 to his father Reb Shlomo Luria Ashkenazi!

I would like to refine the above. Even the AR"I (Isaac Ben Solomon
Luria) date of birth of 1534 is only an educated guess. Therefore, it
should be written "c. 1534" or "?1534". We do know that he died in 1572.

Gilad J. Gevaryahu


From: Aryeh Meir <ameir@...>
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 12:13:04 -0400
Subject: 'Body Works'

Does anyone have any info on halakic opinions of the 'Body Worlds'
exhibits?  I would be interested in finding out.


"Body Worlds (German title: Körperwelten) is a traveling exhibition of
preserved human bodies and body parts that are prepared using a
technique called plastination to reveal inner organs or structures. The
exhibition's developer and promoter is a German anatomist named Gunther
von Hagens, who invented the plastination technique in the late 1970s. "


From: Ari Trachtenberg <trachten@...>
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 09:33:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Fear of punishment

> From: Tzvi Stein <Tzvi.Stein@...>
> Are you sure you are not "thinking too much"?  We are obligated to
> believe: Hashem loves us.  He forgives.  Tshuva works. Yom Kippur
> atones.  Hashem does not give us more than we can handle.  And we are
> supposed to live life with joy!  Leave all the cheshbonos of reward and
> punishment to Hashem.  That's His job, not yours.

Can there really be such a thing as "thinking too much"?  If so, our
greatest works (e.g. the Talmud) would certainly fall in this category,

I think that the earlier question raised is a valid one: if reward and
punishment for good/bad deads is not clearly causal (in this world),
then was is its incentive/deterrence value.  I would argue that G-d's
reward/punishment is not mean to provide incentive or deterrence,
fulfilling the Rav Hanina's dictum "everything is in the hands of heaven
except the fear of heaven".

G-d's actions are meant to exact ultimate justice.  Man's actions are
mean to provide reward/punishment for action.

Ari Trachtenberg,                                      Boston University
http://people.bu.edu/trachten                    mailto:<trachten@...>


From: Russell J Hendel <rjhendel@...>
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 07:42:54 -0400
Subject: RE: Live in Fear vs Do Teshuv; To-God vs To-Man Commandments

Tzvi Stein and Akiva Miller had an interesting on whether to live in
fear or do repentance and live in joy.

They both ignore a fundamental distinction in Jewish law: a) Man-to-God
commandments **are** atoned on Yom Kippur thru Teshuva PROVIDED you
really never intend to do this action again b) Man-To-God commandments
are NOT ATONED on Yom Kippur if you are just doing lip service and
"know" that this sin will repeat c) Man-To-Man commandments are NEVER
atoned until the person you sinned against FORGIVES YOU.

Most people dont realize that most sins are man-man. I once heard from
an Israeli supreme court justice that 60% or so of the responsa are on
man-man issues (Not religious issues like Kashruth (I honestly forget
what period the 60% is applied to). People DO fight about money,
divorce, ownership etc. And you SHOULD FEEL GUILTY until the matter is

In passing the derivation of the above principles arises from the
translation of the Hebrew word Aleph-Caph (AKH) as meaning
usually. Hence we interpret the verse in Lv23 or so as "USUALLY on the
tenth of Tishrey you get atonement". Rashi comments: USUALLY you get
atonement but not on man-to-man commandments." For further details see
my article AKH, at http://www.Rashiyomi.com/ach.pdf

The bottom line: You should be spending alot of time feeling guilty if
you have hurt alot of people during the year. You can hurt people in
many ways including a) stealing aliyahs and kavod they should get b)
slandering them c) not socializing with them the same way you socialize
with other people d) not giving them credit for ideas they have come up
e) not letting them use their talents to help the community (But
disguise everything in politics) f) seeking more "exemptions" then you
are entitled to etc.

>From my point of view: It would be more productive if the mlJewish
discussions focused on how to stop alot of common man-to-man sins in the
community rather than on abstract chasidush discussions about living in
joy. Very few people have the right to "live in joy" all the time.

Russell Jay Hendel; Ph.d. http://www.Rashiyomi.com/


From: Richard Fiedler <richardfiedler@...>
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 16:55:47 +0200
Subject: Re: Molad Calculation

From: Abe Brot <abrot@...>
>Richard Fiedler states the arguement that since the molad of Tishrei is
>always one or two days before the eidim could possibly see the new
>crescent, therefore it is not logical to assume that we ever had an
>"eidim-based system" to determine the new moon. (The new crescent was
>first seen in Eretz-Yisrael this year on the evening preceding 3
>Tishrei.)  If this is the case, why does Masechet Rosh Hashana deal with
>the wittnesses, their obligations and their interogation? The Talmud
>certainly gives the impression that the "eidim-based system" was used
>all the time that the Sanhedrin existed.

Abe I am not saying witnesses were not used. In fact I believe they were
required. What I am saying is the the criterion for selecting the
witnesses was that they supported the calculation.  The gemora goes to
great lengths to show in the case of Raban Gamiel in his conflict with
Rabbi Yehoshua that even deliberate errors were acceptable.


From: Eitan Fiorino <AFiorino@...>
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 12:05:15 -0400
Subject: RE: Netruei Karta meets with Ahmadinejad

I know the Neturei Karta have been discussed endlessly on the list and I
don't really relish opening that box again, but for those who just
dismiss them as some fringe group worthy of ignoring, the bottom line is
they attract media attention that doesn't view them as a mere fringe,
and I think there are dangerous implications of these kinds of stories.




From: Adi Sheleg <adis@...>
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 12:59:29 +0200
Subject: New web site from the HebrewOnline.com family


I am pleased to inform you that we have launched a new web site from the
HebrewOnline.com family:


Learn-Hebrew-Names brings a huge collection of Hebrew, Jewish and
Biblical names including their meaning, history and their citation from
the bible. The site is in constant growth and will soon have over 300

This site is a great resource for parents looking for baby names and even
for people who wish to learn more about their own name.

It also a great tool for learning Hebrew - all the names and their
explanations can be read in Hebrew and in English.

We invite you to visit our new web site and learn more about your Jewish

The site is free and there is no registration needed, your privacy is
protected here.

Best regards,
Adi Sheleg
On-Line Partnership Manager


From: Jacob Richman <jrichman@...>
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 14:34:37 +0200
Subject: Sukkot on the J Site and 65 holiday links

Hi Everyone!

Sukkot is the Jewish holiday that commemorates how protective "Clouds of
Glory" surrounded the Jewish people after leaving Egypt during the forty
years of wandering in the desert.  It also commemorates how the Jews
lived in temporary dwellings during that same time.  Sukkot begins
Friday evening, October 6, 2006.

The J Site - Jewish Education and Entertainment 


has several entertaining features to celebrate Sukkot:

Jewish Trivia Quiz: Sukkot

What is the Hebrew date of the first day of Sukkot ? 
What is another name for the Sukkot holiday ? 
What does Sukkot commemorate ? 
What is the minimum area of a Sukkah as defined in the Talmud ? 
What is the maximum height of a Sukkah ? 
What does the Aramaic word "Ushpizin" mean ? 
Who gets called to the Torah reading on Simchat Torah ? 

The above questions are examples from the multiple choice 
Flash quiz. There are two levels of questions, two timer settings.
Both kids and adults will find it enjoyable.

Additional Sukkot resources and games on the J site include:
Free Sukkot Clipart
The Multilingual Hangman Game (English / Hebrew)
The Multilingual Word Search Game (English / Hebrew / Russian)
My Hebrew Songbook (Hebrew Song Lyrics)
My Jewish Coloring Book (online / offline)

The J site has something for everyone, but if that is not 
enough, I posted on my website 65 links about Sukkot, 
from laws and customs to games and recipes.
Site languages include English, Hebrew, Russian, Spanish,
French, Portuguese, German and Italian.
All 65 links have been reviewed / checked this week.
The web address is:


Please forward this message to relatives and friends, 
so they may benefit from these holiday resources.

Happy Sukkot!


End of Volume 52 Issue 87