Volume 52 Number 91
                    Produced: Tue Oct 24  5:43:43 EDT 2006

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

         [Martin Stern]
Berit Milah on Yom Tov Sheni (2)
         [Joseph Mosseri, Avi Feldblum]
Burning Bush Stones (2)
         [SBA, Ari Trachtenberg]
History of Soviet Jewry Movement
         [Andy Goldfinger]
Kashrus on EL AL
         [Batya Medad]
Monsey meat - role of the mashgiach
         [Carl Singer]
Punishment and Suffering
         [Frank Silbermann]
Rabbanut Kashrus
         [Tzvi Stein]
         [Art Werschulz]
         [Batya Medad]
stille na'anuim
         [Jonathan Baker]
Trip to Phillipines
         [Mimi Markofsky]
Want to be a rebbe?
         [Tzvi Stein]


From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 06:43:59 +0100
Subject: Apikores

On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 12:03:04 +0000, Stu Pilichowski <cshmuel@...>

> I think it was one of the leaders of the State of Israel many years
> ago who lamented that the State, unfortunately, has no apikorsim -
> only Amaratzim.

This reminded me of the joke about Levi eshkol who was referred to as Eskol

Martin Stern


From: Joseph Mosseri <joseph.mosseri@...>
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 22:25:45 -0400
Subject: Berit Milah on Yom Tov Sheni

A woman gave birth to a baby boy on the 2nd day of Sukot (Yom Tov Sheni
shel galuyot). Normally the Berit Milah would be 8 days later which
would be on Simhat Torah day also Yom Tov Sheni shel Galuyot.

The question is as follows: The birth was not natural rather it was a
C-section.  When is the Berit Milah?  On Simhat Torah, Yom Tov Sheni
Shel Galuyot or on the next day which is Hol.  Please provide all
sources and explanations.

Joseph Mosseri

From: Avi Feldblum <feldblum@...>
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 
Subject: Berit Milah on Yom Tov Sheni

I'm not sure I understand your question. The brit milah is eight days
after the birth, as long as the baby is healthy etc. Neither C-section
nor Simchat Torah play any special role in this equation. If the baby is
born by C-section on Shabbat, the brit is the following Shabbat, so why
the question about Simchat Torah?



From: SBA <sba@...>
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 21:09:10 +1000
Subject: Burning Bush Stones

From: Abe Socher
> rocks said to come from Sinai, which were circulating in the Jewish
> world.  They had the following properties:
> (a) They bore a natural branch-like veining that looked like a bush
> (b) When broken into smaller pieces, each piece in turn remarkably
> reproduced the "bush"
> I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has seen these rocks
> and especially anyone who has one and can send along a picture or knows
> how to get ahold of one.

I have one somewhere, though at the moment cannot recall where I put it
away.  I'll look around and if I find it will take a few pics and let
you know.


From: Ari Trachtenberg <trachten@...>
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 10:07:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Burning Bush Stones

Abe Socher <asocher@...> wrote
> Several years ago on this list there were a few brief exchanges on some
> rocks said to come from Sinai, which were circulating in the Jewish
> world.  They had the following properties:
> (a) They bore a natural branch-like veining that looked like a bush
> (b) When broken into smaller pieces, each piece in turn remarkably 
> reproduced the "bush"
> I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has seen these rocks

Sounds like the classical definition of a fractal ... see, for example,

Ari Trachtenberg,                                      Boston University
http://people.bu.edu/trachten                    mailto:<trachten@...>


From: Andy Goldfinger <Andy.Goldfinger@...>
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 08:19:16 -0400
Subject: History of Soviet Jewry Movement

An open letter to Yakov Birnbaum and Glenn Richter:

I am posting this on mail-jewish because of the recent discussion
concerning Hal Light.

The Soviet Jewry movement of the 60's, 70's and 80's constituted a major
chapter in Jewish History.  Many of those involved are now getting (let
me put this gently ...)  "older" (and, of course, wiser).  I am
gratified to learn that Yakov is making his archives available to
Yeshiva University.  I do, think, however that more is needed.  Someone
who was involved with the movement should write an authoratative history
of it.  I don't know who this person would be, but I urge you guys to
either do it yourselves or find someone.  We owe it to future

-- Andy Goldfinger


From: Batya Medad <ybmedad@...>
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 16:50:27 +0200
Subject: Re: Kashrus on EL AL

I've traveled on El Al a few times, this past year.  The main courses
are sealed with hechshar etc.  And that's their food.  Food is no longer
"handled" in the kitchens.  It's pre-packed.  There was a news feature
on tv not long ago about the El Al kitchens in Israel, showing the rabbi
etc.  Yogurts have a hechsher, too.  Very little is dairy; though the
dairy isn't always chalav yisrael.



From: Carl Singer <csngr@...>
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 08:56:45 -0400
Subject: Monsey meat - role of the mashgiach

I believe we need to focus on  and define the role of the mashgiach --

Is he simply someone that we 'install' into the kosher equation as an
augment to "trust" -- thus if we trust someone (as pious) we don't need
a mashgiach ---

or is he also a supervisor in the sense that we know that mistakes are
possibly made even by trustworthy individuals with Yereh Shamayim --
thus a mashgiach is required regardless.

For example - and this is relatively trivial -- our local kosher store,
run by erlechech Yiddin sells repackaged kosher candy (yes, I can /
should do without such treats.)  Someone takes, I presume, bulk
containers of candy and repackages it into plastic tubs -- adding a
printed label (like you see on meat) with brand, and hasgacha.  Missing
is any additional information (nutritional, nut warnings, etc.) that
normally appears on retail packages.  My concern is not an issue of
trustworthyness, but one of errors -- perhaps something will be

Kol tuv,


From: Frank Silbermann <fs@...>
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 11:53:08 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Punishment and Suffering

Bernard Raab <beraab@...> V52 N89:
> I find the whole discussion of whether or why German or Polish Jews,
> Communists or secularists suffered more or less, etc., rather curious.
> I can't help thinking of the thousands (millions?) of Jews through the
> ages who simply abandoned Judaism and assimilated into their surrounding
> communities, who thereby avoided suffering any consequences of the
> holocaust or prior depredations against the Jews. Shoudn't they be the
> first in line for punishment?  Perhaps they are, in Olam Haba'...,

Punishment of an individual can occur in this world or the next;
delaying punishment gives people more time to repent, but punishment in
this world may be more necessary as the urgency of stopping the behavior

Consider these hypothetical scenarios:

(1) Jews are abandoning their duty to create a more G-dly world.
(2) Not only that, but they're encouraging other Jews to abandon their
(3) Not only that, but they're trying to _reduce_ the respect for G-d
       among mankind in general.
(4) Not only that, but many are conspiring to use violent force
       to remove the knowlege of G-d from the world.

I am guessing that the urgency of stopping these sins increases
as you go from (1) to (4).

>From the Jewish perspective, Jewish apostates who assimliated
are mostly in category (1).  From the Orthodox perspective,
Reform Jews may also be in cateory (1), but some leaders might
have been in category (2).  Jewish supporters of communism and
the Soviet Union during the 1930s, however, fell into category (4).

Of course, my ranking of urgency is only speculative; who can know
G-d's thoughts?

Frank Silbermann	Memphis, Tennessee	<fs@...>


From: Tzvi Stein <Tzvi.Stein@...>
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 07:59:29 -0400
Subject: Rabbanut Kashrus

From: Perets Mett <p.mett@...>
> Ask the following question: If one eats under Rabbinical hechsher in a
> restaurant in Bnei Brak is that the same standard as in Tel Aviv?  Is
> the supervision in Tsfas the same as that in Eilat? I don't think it
> is meaningful to talk about a 'standard' level of Rabbinate kashrus.

Basically, you are correct that there is a significant difference in the
quality of supervision among the various city Rabbinate hashgachos.  But
I would caution you not to draw conclusions from the "religiousness" of
the city, as there is really no relationship there.  It could very well
be that the Rabbinate hechsher of Tel Aviv could be more reliable than
that of Bnei Brak (just speaking theoretically)... it all depends on who
is in control (which can in turn depend on politics), the budget, the
quality of the staff, etc.  If I remember correctly from 10 years ago,
the Rabbinate of Rechovot (not noted as one of the most "religious"
cities in Israel) was considered as reliable as any "Badatz" hechsher,
while that of Jerusalem was not.

To add further to the mix... some Rabbinates have a separate "mehadrin"
hechsher, which is often completely separate from the regular hechsher,
with a completely different leadership, staff, and budget.


From: Art Werschulz <agw@...>
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 09:41:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Scarves

Hi. Shmuel Norin writes:

> With winter coming, it brings up a question.  Do scarves need tsitsit
> (fringes)?  If they do, would the requirement be eliminated by
> rounding the edges?

I can't answer that.  OTOH, at some point, it occurred to me that my two
kilts were four-cornered woolen garments.  Tzitzit just won't work for a
kilt, since the bottom two would be dragging the ground.  So I had one
of the corners rounded off a wee bit.

I also sent them in for shatnez testing.  The rabbi who did the testing
said that this was the first time he had ever been called upon to check
a kilt for shatnez.  In case you were wondering, one kilt was okay as
is, and the other needed a bit of surgery.  I also sent in my formal
mess jacket (USAF surplus) that I wear with my kilt; it too needed a bit
of surgery.

So now I can wear my formal kilt outfit at Purim without worry.  If I
could only find a spare set of bagpipes, I should be able to *really*
drown out Haman's name.  :-)

Art Werschulz (8-{)}   "Metaphors be with you."  -- bumper sticker
Internet: agw STRUDEL cs.columbia.edu


From: Batya Medad <ybmedad@...>
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:10:40 +0200
Subject: SSSJ

What a coincidence; I just posted this today.


From: Jonathan Baker <jjbaker@...>
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 09:14:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: stille na'anuim

From: SBA <sba@...>
> > "hodu", the first "yomar", and the first two verses begining "Ana",
> > to himself, then either saying only the last word ("chasdo" or "na")
> > aloud or simply turning around expectantly to the congregation? 
> [in our shul's chasidish/sfard minyan it] is as you describe.  One of
> our choshuv talmidei chachomim raises a storm about this annually,
> claiming it has no source.

Not all chassidish minyanim, though.  I go to a Nusach Sfard place with
a Vizhnitzer (I think; tall streimel, knickers with white stockings on
shabbos) rav, and he does a special niggun for the verses that get
naanuim, with a lot of oyoy-veyvey when he's actually shaking, and not
shaking on the actual words.

        name: jon baker              web: http://www.panix.com/~jjbaker
     address: <jjbaker@...>     blog: http://thanbook.blogspot.com


From: <auntiefifi@...> (Mimi Markofsky)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 19:22:15 -0400
Subject: Trip to Phillipines

I always travel with Labriute meals.  They pack in my suitcase without
leaking and can be heated without ovens, etc.  They are great.

Mimi Markofsky 


From: Tzvi Stein <Tzvi.Stein@...>
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 08:46:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Want to be a rebbe?

From: <HHgoldsmith@...> (H Goldsmith)
> There are hundreds (thousands?) of young men who say that they want to
> go into chinuch when the time comes for parnassa (after learning
> full-time for some time after marriage). Are there any principals out
> there who would like to offer their perspective on what they look for
> when hiring a rebbe? Are there married men who are now looking for a
> chinuch position and would like to offer their comments? Are their
> rebbeim who have recently found their first chinuch position and would
> like to share their experiences with us?? I think this information will
> be extremely helpful to both young men who are still single and their
> parents. Thank you very much.

I think it's great to want to go into chinuch if you have a true desire
and ability to do that.  But I suspect that the "hundreds or thousands"
who "say they want" to go into chinuch is more due to a lack of other
options.  Just about any other career would require education or
training that most "yeshiva" guys do not have access to.  Also, there is
a lack of awareness and exposure to other options.


End of Volume 52 Issue 91