Volume 52 Number 92
                    Produced: Thu Oct 26  6:21:20 EDT 2006

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Abba/Ima, etc.
         [Brian Wiener]
Baruch Dayan Emet - Benjamin Meed
         [Jeanette Friedman]
Berit Milah on Yom Tov Sheni (3)
         [Avi Feldblum, Gilad J. Gevaryahu, Alex Heppenheimer]
Kashrus on Airlines
         [S Wise]
Kosher in Jamaica
         [Yaacov Fenster]
Maoz Tzur niggun on Sukkos
         [S Wise]
Nutritional Information and "Heimishe Brands"
         [Art Werschulz]
Role of Mashgichim
         [Jeanette Friedman]
         [Art Werschulz]


From: Brian Wiener <brian@...>
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 10:57:24 +1000
Subject: RE: Abba/Ima, etc.

>From: <MJGerver@...> (Mike Gerver)
>Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 18:56:09 EST
>Lean Gordon writes, in v50n66,
>      It caught on for my father (now Abba to all of us) but not as much
>      for my mother (now sometimes Ima, but often Mommy, though always
>      Ima in third person conversations among siblings).  I always
>      thought that it was because my attachment was so strong to 'Mommy'
>      that it couldn't be broken, but that can't be the whole
>      explanation since two of my sisters are young enough that they
>      arguably could have been born into calling her Ima, but all of us
>      use Mommy sometimes.
>I suspect the reason that Leah's younger sisters sometimes use "Mommy,"
>in spite of being essentially born into calling their mother "Ima," is that
>they were following Leah's lead. The language patterns that children
>acquire, in general, are based on the language patterns of their peers, not
>the language patterns of their parents, if there is a conflict between the
>two. This was clear in my children's use of "Imma"
>instead of "Mommy." All of our children switched from "Mommy" to "Imma"
>when our oldest child Miriam was about 7, and apparently was influenced by
>the kids in her class (at a Jewish day school in the US), who mostly called
>their mothers "Imma." Even though I continued (and continue to this day) to
>refer to my wife as "Mommy" when talking to our children, all of them call
>her, and refer to her, as "Imma." This includes our youngest child Mollie,
>not even born when Miriam started using "Imma."
>Mollie has used "Imma" her entire life, and has never used "Mommy," in spite
>of the fact that she has never heard me refer to my wife (when talking to
>Mollie and our other children) as anything other than "Mommy."

I know that this is a very old thread....I've been catching up on un
read MJ...but just to throw in what I think is an interesting
observation on the 'parents'naming' discussion.

We live in Australia. We have 2 kids - now 6 and 8. Since the day the
kids were born I have spoken ONLY Hebrew to them, so we can genuinely
say that their mother tongue is Hebrew. They speak Hebrew fluently, like
Israeli kids (but hopefully without the poor grammar of the
latter!!!)They speak English with my wife, Hebrew with me - but they
have ALWAYS called us Mummy and Daddy...the only time we are referred to
as Ima and Abba is when they are talking about us with an Israeli!

Brian Wiener


From: <FriedmanJ@...> (Jeanette Friedman)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 07:53:39 EDT
Subject: Baruch Dayan Emet - Benjamin Meed

Nafla Ateret Rosheynu
The Crown Has Fallen from our Heads

The American Gathering of Jewish Holocaust Survivors and their
Descendants announces with deep regret and sadness the passing of our
beloved and devoted, indefatigable founding president, Benjamin Meed, a
man who empowered the American Jewish Holocaust survivors and their
descendants and gave them the voice to speak with moral authority to the
highest elites of international society from the ivory tower to the
halls of global power. His dedication to our cause was complete.

We express our deepest heartfelt condolences to his beloved wife,
Vladka, who has worked, like him, tirelessly and devotedly for the
cause, and to his children Anna and Steve and their spouses, his sister
Genia and his grandchildren.

The Funeral Service is to be held on Friday, October 27 at 9:30 a.m. at
the Park East Synagogue in Manhattan.

Park East Synagogue
163 East 67th Street
New York, NY 10021
Tel. 212.737.6900

Please check www.americangathering.com  for any updates on location and
time of funeral.


From: Avi Feldblum <feldblum@...>
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 
Subject: Berit Milah on Yom Tov Sheni

I sort of feel like in the passage in the Hagadah, "Hari ani k'ben
shivim shana v'lo zachiti .." [I am (as) seventy years old and did not
know etc) [and yes, I do know the midrash of R' Elazar being only 17
years old, but I'm closer to the seventy number]. My thanks to those who
have sent in correction to the list (see some below) as well as those
who have contacted me privately. At least I generated some additional
traffic on the list :-). I acknowledge my error, and will review the
appropriate sources sent in over Shabbat.


From: <Gevaryahu@...> (Gilad J. Gevaryahu)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:37:06 EDT
Subject: Berit Milah on Yom Tov Sheni

 Avi Feldblum MJv52n91 says: 

> I'm not sure I understand your question. The brit milah is eight days
> after the birth, as long as the baby is healthy etc. Neither C-section
> nor Simchat Torah play any special role in this equation. If the baby
> is born by C-section on Shabbat, the brit is the following Shabbat, so
> why the question about Simchat Torah?

Although Avi is right that Shulchan Aruch, Yore De'ah 262:3 states
"ve-yotze dofen nimolim li-shemona" (=baby boys who were born in a
caesarian section are circumcised on the eighth day), but this sentence
actually tells us that a child born by C-section is circumcised in the
8th day as opposed to the possibility of circumcision "bo bayom" (as is
one opinion in the Talmud) in the very day he was born and not to imply
8th day and also on Shabbat. It is the custom to postpone the
circumcision of children born by C-Section on Shabbat to the following
day which is not a Shabbat/Yom Tov. Thus a common practice is to defined
a caesarian section differently than a regular birth in that the brit
milah of a baby born by C-section does not supersede the Shabbat or
holiday. There are those who hold that it is performed on the 8th day
even on Shabbat.

(Sources: Encyclopedia Talmudit Volume 23, p. 253 s.v. Yotze Dofen.

Gilad J. Gevaryahu

From: Alex Heppenheimer <aheppenh@...>
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 08:03:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Berit Milah on Yom Tov Sheni

In MJ 52:91, Joseph Mosseri asked about the proper date for the Berit
Milah of a boy born by C-section on the second day of Sukkot. (If this
was your baby, then Mazel Tov! If it wasn't, then Mazel Tov anyway, for
the birth of another Jewish child.)

Avi replied:

>I'm not sure I understand your question. The brit milah is eight days
>after the birth, as long as the baby is healthy etc. Neither C-section
>nor Simchat Torah play any special role in this equation. If the baby is
>born by C-section on Shabbat, the brit is the following Shabbat, so why
>the question about Simchat Torah?

Actually, that's not so. The Gemara (Shabbat 135b) cites a dispute as to
whether the brit of a baby born by C-section overrides Shabbat. The
opinion that says it does not is based on the verses (Vayikra 12:2-3)
that juxtapose the mother's seven-day period of postpartum tum'ah with
the brit on the eighth day (which is where we derive the fact that a
brit on that day ordinarily overrides Shabbat): since there is no tum'ah
following a C-section, the "eighth day - even if it's on Shabbat" rule
doesn't apply either.

The Rambam (Milah 1:11) rules according to this opinion, and Shulchan
Aruch (Orach Chaim 331:5 and Yoreh De'ah 266:10) folows suit.

Kol tuv,

[Similar responses sent in by:
Gershon Dubin <gershon.dubin@...>
Rabbi R. Bulka <rbulka@...>
Rose Landowne <ROSELANDOW@...>



From: <Smwise3@...> (S Wise)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 21:54:45 EDT
Subject: Re: Kashrus on Airlines

I haven't flown El Al in a while also, but if I recall on trips from Tel
Aviv the meals were from the Vad of Lod, but don't hold me to it. But as
long as you raised the subject, this year and last we flew by
alternative airlines, so the meals came from the Vaad of Vienna on one
trip and from a Rav in Frankfurt on another. I saw some chassidshe
people and others eating from them but we didn't. How can one rely on
these foreign hashgachas? My father in law called a travel agent who put
him in touch with someone who once worked for the Vaad of Frankfurt and
said it wasn't reliable.

S. Wise


From: Yaacov Fenster <yaacov@...>
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 05:25:06 +0200
Subject: Kosher in Jamaica

Does anyone have any experience with finding Kosher food in Jamaica?

Thanks in advance


From: <Smwise3@...> (S Wise)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 21:49:01 EDT
Subject: Re: Maoz Tzur niggun on Sukkos

I was davening at the kosel during chol hamoed Sukkos and I overheard
from a sefardi minyan the nigun of maoz tzur applied to something in
chazoras ha-shatz, I believe. Is anybody familiar with this?  Also, it
seems the minhag in Eretz Yisroel that even those who daven nusach
ashkenaz do hoshanos after Shacharis instead of after musaf as done
here.  Does anyone know the source for this difference even within the
same nusach?

S. Wise


From: Art Werschulz <agw@...>
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:14:46 -0400
Subject: Nutritional Information and "Heimishe Brands"


Carl Singer, on an entirely different topic, wrote:

> Missing is any additional information (nutritional, nut warnings, etc.)
> that normally appears on retail packages.

This brings up a question I've often wondered about.

I've noticed that (what might be called) "heimishe" brands of kosher
food often don't have nutritional information.  I've noticed this with
baked goods, more than anything else.

For example, whereas (say) Nabisco cookies have nutritional information
(e.g., how many calories in a serving, along with the definition of
"serving"), Shloime Pipick's cookies might not have this info.

Does anybody know why?  Is there some kind of legal threshhold saying
that you need to put this information on a product until and unless you
bake or sell a certain number of units?  Or is it something else

(And do I *really* want to know how many calories I'm scarfing down in
my Shabbat dessert?:-)

Art Werschulz (8-{)}   "Metaphors be with you."  -- bumper sticker
Internet: agw STRUDEL cs.columbia.edu


From: <FriedmanJ@...> (Jeanette Friedman)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 07:52:08 EDT
Subject: Re: Role of Mashgichim

Mashgichim we used to hire in our now dead and buried bakery were
responsible for checking EVERYTHING...from the hechsherim on the boxes
and packages that were the ingredients that came in, to making sure the
"help" didn't put their lunches in the fridges or eat near the kitchens
or front of the store. They made sure it was pas Yisrael, and that
challah was taken. They were also responsible for rolling the ruggelach,
dipping the cookies in chocolate, packing orders and so forth, because
we didn't have the money to pay for someone to stand around all day and
do nothing but read labels. It worked very nicely until our partner ran
off with the SBA loan that was going to pay for a new baking factory and
store and then we went mechulia.


From: Art Werschulz <agw@...>
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:46:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Scarves


Orrin Tilevitz <tilevitzo@...> writes:

> (My daughter, who is a student mashgiach-- I can already hear eyebrows
> being raised-- in a college kitchen operated by non-Jews, does
> precisely this.)

Why the raised eyebrows?  I know that the kosher Chinese restaurant in
Elizabeth NJ uses mashigchot.  Moreover, would not the putative
eyebrow-raiser accept his wife's hasgacha of the family kitchen?

> The paradox is that we may be better assured of an establishment's
> kashrus if is owned by a goy or a nonobservant Jew than if it is owned
> by an observant Jew.

One advantage of having a non-Jewish kosher establishment is that you're
less likely to run into a situation where the proprietor thinks he knows
more than the Rav HaMachshir.

Art Werschulz (8-{)}   "Metaphors be with you."  -- bumper sticker
Internet: agw STRUDEL cs.columbia.edu


End of Volume 52 Issue 92