Volume 52 Number 93
                    Produced: Fri Oct 27  5:03:31 EDT 2006

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Expiration dates of Kosher food
         [Yeshaya (Charles Chi) Halevi]
GoDaven.com Announces First Kavanah Program for Windows
         [Yosi Fishkin]
Hoshanot after Shacharit - Nusach Ashkenaz (2)
         [Shmuel Himelstein, SBA]
Improper comment
         [Shmuel Himelstein]
Maoz Tzur niggun on Sukkos (3)
         [Ariel Ozick, Menashe Elyashiv, Minden]
Mashgichot--was scarves
         [Orrin Tilevitz]
New Classes Beginning at Drisha
         [Freda B Birnbaum]
Nutritional Information and "Heimishe Brands"
         [Akiva Miller]
She-al Hameis Nigzerah Gezairah Sheyistakach min Haleiv
         [Baruch C. Cohen]
         [Rich, Joel]


From: Yeshaya (Charles Chi) Halevi <c.halevi@...>
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 06:43:25 -0500
Subject: Expiration dates of Kosher food

Shalom, All:

As part of the ongoing discussion on companies that sell kosher food,
here's my question:

Why don't "big name" kosher companies such as Streits, Manischewitz
etc. put plain expiration dates on their products? Yes, they have their
own codes to identify boxes if asked, but their products usually (in my
experience) don't have expiration dates easily understood by
consumers. Why?

Kol Tuv,
Yeshaya (Charles Chi) Halevi


From: Yosi Fishkin <Joseph@...>
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 14:36:38 -0400
Subject: GoDaven.com Announces First Kavanah Program for Windows

I'm pleased to announce the public release of "Kavanah Improvement
Project" for Windows.

Kavanah Improvement Project is the first program that provides a
complete system designed to help you improve your Kavanah during
davening. The program provides daily Kavanah exercises to help you
strengthen your Kavanah, helps you track you Kavanah over time, and,
based on your progress, it provides customized suggestions to help you
improve your particular Kavanah situation.

This free program is available in versions for Windows computers, as
well as Palm PDAs. To download the program, or for more information, go
to www.GoDaven.com, or I can email the program directly to you if you
contact me at <Kavanah@...>

Yosi Fishkin, MD

www.GoDaven.com - The Worldwide Minyan Database


From: Shmuel Himelstein <himels@...>
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 13:31:00 +0200
Subject: Hoshanot after Shacharit - Nusach Ashkenaz

Although Hoshanot according to Nusach Ashkenaz is after Mussaf, most of
the Ashkenaz Minyanim I've been in in Israel have it after Hallel, as a
simple matter of convenience - since you're holding the arba minim

The Tukechinsky Lu'ach - probably the most widely used Lu'ach among
Haredi Ashkenazim in Israel - indeed has the Hoshanot after Mussaf.

Shmuel Himelstein

From: SBA <sba@...>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 00:22:07 +1000
Subject: Re: Hoshanot after Shacharit - Nusach Ashkenaz

Rcvd from a friend:

Rabbi Moshe Sternbuch has a Teshuva about it.


From: Shmuel Himelstein <himels@...>
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 13:19:50 +0200
Subject: Improper comment

It would to me to be improper for our worthy editor, Avi, to allow
through a statement which says that:

"My father in law called a travel agent who put him in touch with
someone who once worked for the Vaad of [name of the city deliberately
left out by me, although it appeared in the original posting] and said
it wasn't reliable."

Surely such a hearsay statement - at best at third hand and referring to
some time in the past - belittling a kashrut endorsement, is unwarranted
and enters into the realm of lashon hara/mitzi shem ra.

Shmuel Himelstein


From: Ariel Ozick <ari@...>
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 15:49:30 +0200
Subject: Re: Maoz Tzur niggun on Sukkos

In response to S Wise who wrote:

> I was davening at the kosel during chol hamoed Sukkos and I overheard
> from a sefardi minyan the nigun of maoz tzur applied to something in
> chazoras ha-shatz, I believe. Is anybody familiar with this?"  ____

At the Moroccan/Sefardi shtiebel where I daven on Chagim and Shabatot
sometimes, they sing Mah Ashiv in Hallel to the tune of Maoz Tzur.
Always. Pesach, Rosh chodesh, Shavuot, Sukkot.

I don't know what they do on Chanukka because I haven't been there for
one yet, but I will try this year and send an update.


From: Menashe Elyashiv <elyashm@...>
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 14:55:30 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Maoz Tzur niggun on Sukkos

I have heard it used in Hallel for Ma Ashiv L'hashem, altho it does not
fit amount of words.

From: Minden <phminden@...>
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 12:48:35 +0200
Subject: Re: Maoz Tzur niggun on Sukkos

The closest I can think of is the German (post-18th century?) minneg of
"Yor Kaddesh" or "Jahreskaddisch" on Simches toure, where tunes from all
year round are distributed to the parts of kaddesh.

Lipman Phillip Minden


From: Orrin Tilevitz <tilevitzo@...>
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 05:26:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Mashgichot--was scarves

In response to

> (My daughter, who is a student mashgiach-- I can already hear eyebrows
> being raised-- in a college kitchen operated by non-Jews, does
> precisely this.

Art Werschultz writes

> Why the raised eyebrows?  I know that the kosher Chinese restaurant in
> Elizabeth NJ uses mashigchot. Moreover, would not the putative
> eyebrow-raiser accept his wife's hasgacha of the family kitchen?

Very inteesting.  I am glad to see that list members are too enlightened
to raise their eyebrows, but I am told by a mashgiach friend that none
of the major supervisory organizations employ mashgichot.  I don't know
if that's their policy.  The hava amina would be that the a woman may be
relied on in her own kitchen but not for public food either because she
necessarily eats her own cooking or based on some prohibition of women
taking public positions.


From: Freda B Birnbaum <fbb6@...>
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 18:40:37 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: New Classes Beginning at Drisha

Several interesting new classes coming up at Drisha:

Deconstructing Mikvah: An (Un)Orthodox Perspective

The laws of the menstruant are full of language and imagery which can be
painful and offensive to the contemporary woman. How can we deconstruct
these laws and impose our own meaning upon them to enhance our spiritual
lives and our relationships to self, God and community.

For women only.

Renee Septimus
Tuesday, October 24, 6:00-7:30 p.m. Free.

One-time classes - Coed

* Reluctant Heroes of the Bible - Elliott Rabin -
Thursday, October 26, 12:30-2:00 p.m. $15 (includes lunch)

* How 'Jewish' Were Our Forefathers? - Menachem Leibtag
Monday, November 6, 12:30-2:00 p.m. $30 (includes lunch)

* The Netziv, Rabbi Soloveitchik, and Rav Hutner: Three Gedolim on
Public Affairs and Da'as Torah
Jerome Chanes - Thursday, November 9, 12:30-2:00 p.m.
$30 (includes lunch)

* T'chines: Women Talk to God - Renee Septimus -
Tuesday, November 28, 6:00-7:30 p.m. $25

* Why We Celebrate Chanukah, and Why There is No Straight Answer to that
Jenny Labendz - Tuesday, December 12, 6:00-7:30 p.m. $25

Register today 212.595.0307 or <inquiry@...>

Class for Engaged Couples

Chatanim and kallot learn together in traditional study of the laws of 
niddah, and discuss how to give and get the most from married life.

Shuli and Ben Sandler
Monday, 7:00-9:00 p.m.
7-week course begins October 30
$360 per couple

Register by October 26 212.595.0307 or <inquiry@...>

The Maidi Katz Memorial Lecture Series - Understanding Maimonides'
Philosophical Development

The Rabbi as Philosopher:
Philosophical Affirmations in Maimonides' Early Writings
Tuesday, November 7, 7:30 p.m. Coed. Free.

The Philosopher as Rabbi:
Orthodox Reservations in Maimonides' Subsequent Writings
Tuesday, November 14, 7:30 p.m. Coed. Free.

Charles Manekin, Associate Professor of Philosophy
at the University of Maryland and
Visiting Senior Lecturer at Bar Ilan University.

Midrash and Aggadah: Interpreting Scripture through Story-Telling and
Telling Stories through Scripture 

Study the interplay between Midrash (rabbinic scriptural interpretation)
and Aggadah (rabbinic storytelling). Why did the Rabbis tell stories
about biblical characters that were not in the Bible, and why did they
tell stories about themselves by using the Bible?

Yehuda Septimus
Tuesday, 7:45-9:15 p.m.
4-week course begins November 21.
Tuition: $100. Coed

Register today 212.595.0307 or <inquiry@...>

Judith Tenzer
Drisha Institute
email: <jtenzer@...>
web: http://www.drisha.org
Drisha Institute | 37 West 65th Street | New York | NY | 10023


From: Akiva Miller <kennethgmiller@...>
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 11:56:25 GMT
Subject: Re: Nutritional Information and "Heimishe Brands"

Art Werschulz asked:
> Is there some kind of legal threshhold saying that you need to put
> this information on a product until and unless you bake or sell a
> certain number of units?  Or is it something else entirely?

Yes, there are a whole bunch of exemptions, basically relating to 
reday-to-eat foods and to small companies. Details can be found at 
the U. S. Food and Drug Administration webite, in the "Nutrition 
Labeling--Exemptions" section at 

Akiva Miller


From: <azqbng@...> (Baruch C. Cohen)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 09:23:08 -0400
Subject: She-al Hameis Nigzerah Gezairah Sheyistakach min Haleiv

After Yosef's brothers lied to their father Yaakov about Yosef's death
claiming that he was killed by a wild beast, the Torah in Parshas
Vayeshev states that Yosef's brothers and sisters tried to console their
father Yaakov, but he refused to be consoled ("Vayema-ain Lehisnecham").

Rashi, citing the Bereishis Rabbah 84:21, explains that a person does
not accept consolation over a live person whom he believes has died, for
a Heavenly decree has been issued over one who has died - that he be
forgotten from the heart of those who survive ("She-al Hameis Nigzerah
Gezairah Sheyistakach min Haleiv") - but this decree has not been issued
over one who is alive.  Since Yaakov Avinu wasn't forgetting he knew
that Yosef wasn't dead, for had Yosef died, Yaakov would have
experienced Shikcha - forgetting which would have led to a consolation
of sorts.

According to the Seforno: Yaakov Avinu did not want to be conforted. By
continuing to mourn and grieve for his son he kept alive the hope that
Yoseph was still alive, for it is decreed that a deceased person is
ultimately forgotten (the intensity of the memory fades) and one can
find confort. That is why Yacob Avinu did not cease to grieve.

Similarly, the Gemorah in Pesachim 54b quotes a Beraisa - Three things
entered the thoughts of Hashem to be created during the week of
Creation, and were indeed created later at the appropriate time: and if
they had not entered Hashem's thoughts to be created, it would have been
logical that they enter His thoughts to be created - for without them
man would not exist. Hence Hashem decreed upon the corpse that it
decompose and emit a foul odor, and upon the deceased that he be
forgotten from the hearts of the mourners. (It seems that the Gemorah's
gezeirah is on the deceased that he be forgotten from the hearts of the
mourners. I would think, that the decree would be on the mourner's heart
to forget the deceased).

An interesting Diyuk is that it says "Sheyistakach min Haleiv" and it
doesn't say Sheyistakach min "HaRosh" - forgotten from the heart, but
not from the mind. Interestingly, forgetting is a function of the mind
and not of the heart. While one might forget a thought, there is no
functional equivalent of forgetting when it comes to emotions of the
heart.  So it's an interesting play on words that the emotional pain
will be 'forgotten.' To me, this is powerful consolation: one never
forgets the deceased, it's just that the intense raw pain will some day
be forgotten.

Does anyone have any ideas as to "how" this Shikcha - forgetting works?
Are there any interesting articles, stories, or Divrei Torah that
explain this phenomenon?

Baruch C. Cohen, Esq.
Los Angeles, CA


From: Rich, Joel <JRich@...>
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 16:00:22 -0400
Subject: SSSJ

I remember attending the early rallies and the discussions (I was in
MTA) around YU about whether this was the "traditional" approach.  I
just wanted to recognize Jacob Birnbaum's efforts in a world whose
memory is short and selective.

Joel Rich


End of Volume 52 Issue 93