Volume 60 Number 46 
      Produced: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 17:28:41 EDT

Subjects Discussed In This Issue:

Additions and changes to the Amidah during the 10 days 
    [Chaim Casper]
Additions and changes to the Amidah during the 10 days ** Correction * 
    [Jack Gross]
Alenu on RH and year-round (2)
    [Martin Stern  Menashe Elyashiv]
Another conundrum 
    [Martin Stern]
Brakhah on orange Juice 
    [Martin Stern]
Chavivut hamitsvot 
    [Akiva Miller]
Day after Yom Kippur 
    [Menashe Elyashiv]
Mazal tov and b'shaa tova 
    [David Curwin]
Shofar in Elul 
    [Menashe Elyashiv]


From: Chaim Casper <surfflorist@...>
Date: Tue, Nov 1,2011 at 12:01 PM
Subject: Additions and changes to the Amidah during the 10 days

In MJ60 #44, I wrote that the GR"A said Sim Shalom for minhah and ma'ariv
(instead of Shalom Rav).   After being questioned about it and researching
it, I have concluded that this post was wrong.  The GR"A said Sim Shalom
for minhah on Shabbat afternoon only; the other six daily minhahs and all
seven ma'arivs were concluded by the GR"A with Shalom Rav (see the Siddur

In addition, in my haste to send my post in, I mistakenly referred to the
RaMBa"M as an Ashkenazi.   The RaMBa"M, of course, was a Sepharadi who said
Sim Shalom at every minhah and maariv (see MJ50#71).  And similarly, the
Rav, zt"l, who was an Ashkenazi, said Sim Shalom instead of Shalom Rav at
every tefilah (see Hanhagos HaRav #19 in both the Yom Kippur Machzor and
the Rosh Hashannah Machzor).

I regret any error.

B'virkat Torah,
Chaim Casper
North Miami Beach, FL


From: Jack Gross <jacobbgross@...>
Date: Wed, Oct 19,2011 at 03:01 PM
Subject: Additions and changes to the Amidah during the 10 days ** Correction *

In MJ 60#45, Chaim Casper wrote:
> ...Evidently, Shalom Rav is a very late addition (1600s?--it's clear
> the RaMBa"M only said Sim Shalom)....
shalom rav originated around 1600? It is mentioned in Mordechai (with regard to 
what to say at mincha on shabbat: is kriat hatorah a trigger for sim 
shalom..."barecheinu...torat chaim", or only birkat kohanim) -- well before 1600. 

[sent by Mr. Gross from his Blackberry pager --Mod.]


From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Wed, Oct 19,2011 at 01:01 PM
Subject: Alenu on RH and year-round

Yehuda Wiesen <wiesen@...> wrote (MJ 60#45):

> It seems the ending for Alenu is different when it appears in the high
> holiday amida and when it appears at the end of each service during
> the year.
> Why is that?

Originally Aleinu was meant to be said on RH as an introduction to the
malchuyot [verses concerning Hashem's kingship] in mussaf. Later (12th
century CE) it was adopted as a concluding prayer at every service but most
of the verses said on RH were omitted.

Incidentally, in Germany Aleinu was not said after minchah when it was
followed immediately by ma'ariv unless there was some intervening shiur or,
as for example on Friday evening, some psalms were recited in between.

Martin Stern

From: Menashe Elyashiv <Menashe.Elyashiv@...>
Date: Fri, Oct 21,2011 at 04:01 AM
Subject: Alenu on RH and year-round

Yehuda Wiesen <wiesen@...> wrote (MJ 60#45):

> It seems the ending for Alenu is different when it appears in the high
> holiday amida and when it appears at the end of each service during
> the year.

The difference is the last line "vehaya hashem lemelech" -- it concludes the daily 
Alenu but is out of place on Rosh Hashana. Alenu is the opening to 
Malchuyot, after which follow psukim from the Tora, Ketuvim & Neviim. The 
"vehaya" is from the Neviim.


From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Tue, Nov 1,2011 at 05:01 PM
Subject: Another conundrum

Here is another conundrum:

What activity is prohibited on Chol Hamoed but permitted on Shabbat and Yom

Martin Stern


From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Wed, Oct 19,2011 at 12:01 PM
Subject: Brakhah on orange Juice

Wendy Baker <wbaker@...> wrote (MJ 60#45):

> Martin Stern (MJ 60#44), replying to  Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz (MJ 60#42),
> states on the subject of brachot on orange juice
>> The crucial point is whether oranges are grown primarily for their juice,
>> which then gets the berachah ha'eitz and the fruit would require shehakol ,
>> or for eating as fruit in which case the juice would get the berachah
>> shehakol and the fruit ha'eitz.
> So, one would say ha'eitz on say, a navel or temple orange, which are
> primarily eaten whole, in segments, while if eating say, a Valencia or
> other "juice" orange in segments one would say shehakol.  This would get
> tricky, particularly for children who would have to learn all the different
> types of oranges.
> Apples might present a similar problem, as Rome Rhode Island greenings, and,
> Cortland apples in the NE of the US are primarily used for baked apples, pies,
> etc, while Granny Smith, Macintosh and several others are used both for cooked
> or raw eating, while some, like Delicious, Macoun, etc are primarily raw
> eating apples.  No apple is totally one or the other.  This strikes me as
> extremely complicated for figuring brachot. What a chance for disputation at
> the school Bracha Bees:-)

I am afraid that Wendy is correct that the rules for berachot are extremely
complicated and very tricky. The only consolation with the different
varieties of oranges and apples is that probably bediavad [after making the
berachah] one will not have done anything too seriously wrong whichever
berachah one has made since either can probably be justified. It is only as
regards lechatchila [when deciding before making the berachah] that these
considerations come into play, but everyone should consult his/her LOR as to
what to do in practice.

Martin Stern


From: Akiva Miller <kennethgmiller@...>
Date: Wed, Oct 19,2011 at 01:01 PM
Subject: Chavivut hamitsvot

Martin Stern asked (MJ 60#45):

> ... I notice many people do rush to take the arba minim before the
> end of chazarat hashats, when one should be concentrating on what
> the shats is saying, and, what to me seems even less justifiable,
> make the berachah on it then. Can anyone suggest a limud zekhut
> [ex post facto justification] for what seems to be a widespread
> custom?

I agree that this is not the best way of doing things, but as one who is guilty 
of it myself, I'll offer these ex post facto justifications:

Depending on various factors, there simply might not be enough time to do these 
things if one waits until after the chazan has completed his repetition of the 
amidah. In some shuls, there might be a short break while the chazan attends to 
his own lulav, but in others he might have it already prepared so that he can 
begin Hallel with only a slight delay. Similarly, it would be ideal if the 
individual worshipper had his lulav and esrog fully prepared (i.e., out of their 
boxes and fully assembled) before he even begins his prayers, but that might not 
be possible. For example, if the shul is crowded, it may be very unwise to take 
the lulav out of its case until it is ready to be held.

As for the one who even begins to say the bracha and shake the lulav before the 
Repetition is over, perhaps that person *needs* to begin Hallel early, either 
because he says it on the slow side, or because the chazan says it very quickly.

Akiva Miller

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From: Menashe Elyashiv <Menashe.Elyashiv@...>
Date: Fri, Oct 21,2011 at 03:01 AM
Subject: Day after Yom Kippur

Alexander Seinfeld <seinfeld@...> wrote (MJ 60#44):

> Sunday morning I went to my regular minyan and it began (by design) a few
> minutes later than it had on Friday morning, yet no one there could be
> accused of not being zerizim.

> (a puzzle for your Yom Tov table...let me know if you figure it out)

So did we in our Minyan. Every Vatikin (sunrise) minyan starts a minute or 
two later as sunrise becomes later. And we are still zerizim, although 
compared to Yom Kippur, vatikin starts much later. BTW, here Sunday is no 
different than any other workday, including today, Friday Isru Hag [of Shmini 
Atzeres --Mod.].


From: David Curwin <tobyndave@...>
Date: Sun, Oct 30,2011 at 06:01 AM
Subject: Mazal tov and b'shaa tova

Two questions: 

A)     Does anyone know when and why mazal tov changed from what seems to be
the original meaning of "good luck", which can be used for future events, to
the meaning "congratulations"? If now one wishes "mazal tov" before a
difficult task, it is not the appropriate usage. (You can say "it should be
b'mazal tov" to refer to the future, but why should simply "mazal tov" be
used for events in the past?)

B)      When and why did the phrase "b'shaa tova" come to be the only
acceptable greeting to a pregnant woman? Has this ever been addressed in
halachic literature?





From: Menashe Elyashiv <Menashe.Elyashiv@...>
Date: Fri, Oct 21,2011 at 04:01 AM
Subject: Shofar in Elul

Sammy Finkelman <sammy.finkelman@...> wrote (MJ 60#43):

> Is it correct that Sephardim don't blow the Shofar in Elul?

Blow, yes; Shaharit, no.  Shofar is blown at every 13 Midot, some add also in the 
final Kadish (titkabal). But, if this annoys the neighbors, Yemenites (minhag 
baladi) blow only after the kadish titkabal.


End of Volume 60 Issue 46