Volume 60 Number 47 
      Produced: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 15:22:50 EST

Subjects Discussed In This Issue:

Additions and changes to the Amidah during the 10 days 
    [Martin Stern]
Aninut and Siyyum Bechorim  
    [Daniel Werlin]
Another conundrum 
    [Perets Mett]
Express Kedusha 
    [Orrin Tilevitz]
Haftarah Parashas Vayeira  
    [Stuart Wise]
Meaning of Mazal Tov 
    [Avraham Norin]
New punctuation in Retsei? 
    [Martin Stern]
Taking arba minim early 
    [Carl Singer]


From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Wed, Nov 2,2011 at 06:01 AM
Subject: Additions and changes to the Amidah during the 10 days

Chaim Casper <surfflorist@...> wrote (MJ 60#46):

> In MJ 60#44, I wrote that the GR"A said Sim Shalom for minhah and ma'ariv
> (instead of Shalom Rav).   After being questioned about it and researching
> it, I have concluded that this post was wrong.  The GR"A said Sim Shalom
> for minhah on Shabbat afternoon only; the other six daily minhahs and all
> seven ma'arivs were concluded by the GR"A with Shalom Rav (see the Siddur
> HaGR"A).

This minhag which Chaim attributes to the GR"A is in fact the minhag that
was current in West Germany, Alsace and Holland (Minhag Ashkenaz as opposed
to Minhag Polen used in North and East Germany and lands further to the

I saw the following rationales for the two usages vis-a-vis whether to use
Sim shalom at minchah:

(i)  According to MA, one uses Sim shalom whenever there is Kriat Hatorah,
i.e. Shabbat and Ta'anit tsibbur, because of the phrase "Torat chaim" in it.

(ii) According to MP, one uses Sim shalom whenever there is Birchat cohanim,
i.e. ONLY on a Ta'anit tsibbur, because of the word "berachah" that appears
in it twice.

Martin Stern


From: Daniel Werlin <dzwerlin@...>
Date: Sat, Nov 12,2011 at 04:01 PM
Subject: Aninut and Siyyum Bechorim 

A family member was in the unfortunate position of being an onen [a mourner prior 
to burial -- for details, see http://tinyurl.com/8874bm4 --Mod.] on erev
Pesach. The question arose regarding whether or not to attend a siyyum
bechorim, and if not, was fasting was still required. We recevied a p'sak at
the time, but a casual poll, after the fact, yielded opinions spanning the

-- don't attend a siyyum, and don't fast
-- attend the siyyum, and don't fast
-- don't attend a siyyum, and do fast

Is anyone aware of sources addressing this specific issue, or has anyone heard
rulings on this scenario?

Kol tuv

Dan Werlin


From: Perets Mett <p.mett00@...>
Date: Wed, Nov 2,2011 at 06:01 AM
Subject: Another conundrum

Following Martin Stern's conundrum (MJ 60#46), here is another one:

This past Chol Hamoed Succos, what mlocho was permitted for a ben chuts loorets
(diaspora resident) but forbidden to a ben Erets Yisroel (resident of Erets

[The location of the person at the time is basically irrelevant.]

This question was actually relevant to my wife and me!

Perets Mett


From: Orrin Tilevitz <tilevitzo@...>
Date: Fri, Nov 4,2011 at 12:01 AM
Subject: Express Kedusha

The aveil [mourner] who has therefore been the sheliach tzibur at shachrit the
last few months in my shul rattles through kedusha at the same frantic pace he
does through chazarat hashatz, saying the entire thing aloud without pausing to
let the rest of us answer "kadosh", "boruch" and "yimloch". 

Obviously that is wrong. (It seems to be an error of overcorrection.) Can
someone point me to a source that explicitly says so? One can derive it by
implication from the relevant section of the shulchan arukh (it's towards the
end of the first volume of the mishna berura) which talks about "answering," but
I'd like some source that explicitly says "the sheliach tzibur should wait until
the congregation answers." (This fellow has smicha, BTW.)


From: Stuart Wise <Smwise3@...>
Date: Sun, Nov 13,2011 at 02:01 AM
Subject: Haftarah Parashas Vayeira 

The chumash I was using today had the haftarah for parashas vayeira to end
at a certain point according to Sefardim and Jews of Frankfurt. Any insights
why this is so? The point where they end seems to be in the middle of the
narrative, leaving out Elisha's revival of the dead boy, who the
commentators said grew to be the navi Chabbakuk.

Stuart Wise


From: Avraham Norin <harbashan@...>
Date: Wed, Nov 2,2011 at 05:01 AM
Subject: Meaning of Mazal Tov

In reply to the query from David Curwin <tobyndave@...> (MJ 60#46):

A friend of mine (Avram Suslovich) suggests that when one wishes someone "Mazal
Tov" he is refering to the following quote: 

"Siman Tov UMazal Tov Yehey Lanu U'Lchol Yisroel".

"Mazal Tov" therefore acknowledges the individual's happiness and expresses the
wish that his good fortune should continue and spread among the whole nation.


From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Mon, Nov 7,2011 at 05:01 AM
Subject: New punctuation in Retsei?

Earlier editions of Artscroll, like most siddurim, had the following
punctuation in Retsei:

" ... vehasheiv et ha'avodah lidvir beitecha. v'ishei Yisrael utefillatam
be'ahava tekabeil beratson ..."

which it translated as:

" ... and restore the service to the Holy of Holies of Your Temple. The
fire-offerings of Israel and their prayer accept with love and favour ..."

Newer editions have altered the punctuation to:

" ... vehasheiv et ha'avodah lidvir beitecha v'ishei Yisrael. utefillatam
be'ahava tekabeil beratson ..."

which presumably has been done because at present we cannot bring
fire-offerings and is meant to change its meaning to:

" ... and restore the service to the Holy of Holies of Your Temple and the
fire-offerings of Israel. And their prayer accept with love and favour ..."

This seems to be rather a clumsy way of expressing the revised understanding
and, if this had been the author's intention, one would have expected it to
have been phrased as:

" ... vehasheiv lidvir beitecha et ha'avodah v'ishei Yisrael. utefillatam
be'ahava tekabeil beratson ..."

However, I don't understand why there is any problem with the original
punctuation which should be understood as referring to the restoration of
the Temple when sacrifices will again be brought together with our prayers
i.e. it should be understood as meaning:

" ... and restore the service to the Holy of Holies of Your Temple [and
then] accept with love and favour the fire-offerings of Israel and their
prayer ..."

since the current situation, in which the sacrificial service is in
abeyance, is covered by the opening clause:

"Retsei Hashem Elokeinu be'amecha Yisrael uvitfillatam ... [Hashem our G-d,
favour Your people Yisrael and their prayer ...]"

Any comments?

Martin Stern


From: Carl Singer <carl.singer@...>
Date: Wed, Nov 2,2011 at 06:01 AM
Subject: Taking arba minim early

Akiva Miller <kennethgmiller@...> wrote (MJ 60#46):

> Martin Stern asked (MJ 60#45):
>> ... I notice many people do rush to take the arba minim before the
>> end of chazarat hashats, when one should be concentrating on what
>> the shats is saying, and, what to me seems even less justifiable,
>> make the berachah on it then. Can anyone suggest a limud zekhut
>> [ex post facto justification] for what seems to be a widespread
>> custom?
> I agree that this is not the best way of doing things, but as one who is 
> guilty of it myself, I'll offer these ex post facto justifications:
> Depending on various factors, there simply might not be enough time to do 
> these things if one waits until after the chazan has completed his repetition 
> of the amidah. In some shuls, there might be a short break while the chazan 
> attends to his own lulav, but in others he might have it already prepared so 
> that he can begin Hallel with only a slight delay. Similarly, it would be 
> ideal if the individual worshipper had his lulav and esrog fully prepared 
> (i.e., out of their boxes and fully assembled) before he even begins his 
> prayers, but that might not be possible. For example, if the shul is crowded, 
> it may be very unwise to take the lulav out of its case until it is ready to
> be held.
> As for the one who even begins to say the bracha and shake the lulav before 
> the Repetition is over, perhaps that person *needs* to begin Hallel early, 
> either because he says it on the slow side, or because the chazan says it 
> very quickly.

In our shul the Rabbi makes an announcement prior to taking the lulav asking
people to wait.

Carl A. Singer


End of Volume 60 Issue 47