Volume 66 Number 17 
      Produced: Wed, 23 Nov 22 12:35:49 -0500

Subjects Discussed In This Issue:

A 14 Point Checklist for Those Watching Someone in Hospital  
    [Prof. L. Levine]
Consistency in poseik? 
    [Joel Rich]
Inaudible Mi shebairachs (2)
    [Martin Stern  Orrin Tilevitz]
Mashiv haru'ach 
    [Ben Katz, M.D.]
Saying Kaddish (2)
    [Carl Singer  Prof. L. Levine]
Two Days Yom Tov 
    [Chana Luntz]


From: Prof. L. Levine <llevine@...>
Date: Wed, Nov 23,2022 at 11:17 AM
Subject: A 14 Point Checklist for Those Watching Someone in Hospital 

Martin Stern wrote (MJ 66#16):

> Having a relative in hospital can often be a matter of pikuach nefesh but also
> possibly cause a chillul Hashem. The basic question is "How should we behave 
> in situations where non-Jews might resent our 'interference'? As a 
> springboard we might like to consider what Rabbi Yair Hoffman wrote on
> VINnews.


I have not read R Hoffman's article, but I would like to spell out my own
approach to being in a hospital or nursing home.

For background, let me point out that I have had seven knee surgeries. The first
was in 2014 and the last was in 2020.  In addition, I have been in a nursing
home for 3 periods of 6 weeks while receiving an antibiotic vis a pic line 3
times a day.  So you see, when it comes to hospitals and nursing homes, I am
somewhat of a frequent flyer.

The net result of all of this medical care is that my left patella is broken and
cannot be fixed. Thus, I have trouble walking and often feel unsteady while

The first thing that I tell anyone who is taking care of me is, "My job is to
help you do your job."  The response has invariably been, "I do not hear this
very often."

I am polite and use words like, "please, thank you, I appreciate what you are
doing for me, etc." Greeting the professional with a "Hello, good morning, good
afternoon, and good evening" is also something that should be done.   I do not
view the health care professional who is helping me as my servant. S/he is a
person with feelings. However, let me point out that if something does go wrong,
I am quick to point this out to the person helping me, and, if need be, to the
facility management.

I have asked for explanations regarding my treatments and expect detailed
answers. I will not tolerate having a health care professional who is too
arrogant to talk sensibly with me. Fortunately, those whom I have dealt with
have been willing to treat me with the respect that I deserve.

RSRH wrote about Mensch-Yisroel.  He points out that the first thing a Jew has
to be is a Mensch,  i.e., act in accordance with the best in secular society.
(Rav Shimon Schwab points out that if the gentile world is nothing, then it is
meaningless for the Orthodox world to assert that we are better than the gentiles!)

All of the above should not be restricted to health care professionals. This
approach should be the way every Jew who considers himself or herself observant

IMO the approach I have outlined above will lead to a Kiddush HaShem, not to a
Chillul HaShem.

Professor Yitzchok Levine


From: Joel Rich <joelirarich@...>
Date: Wed, Nov 23,2022 at 12:17 AM
Subject: Consistency in poseik?

A shiur discussed the question of a ben chu"l who observes one day yom tov when
in aretz, flying back to chu"l on yom tov sheini. My follow up: With regard to
the question of somebody from chu"l keeping one day and flying on the second
day, a good follow up discussion might be ignoring a rabbi's position on keeping
two days and then asking him what you should do if you fly on the second day.

Your thoughts?

Joel Rich


From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Mon, Nov 21,2022 at 04:17 PM
Subject: Inaudible Mi shebairachs

Yisrael Medad wrote (MJ 66#16):

> Orrin Tilevitz asserts (MJ 66#15):
>> The whole purpose of the mi sheberach for sick people is to announce the name
>> so that the community may pray for him or her.
> But is it?
> A parallel example, the yahrzeit Mi Sheberah said, in the Ashkenaz custom, at
> Shabbat Mincha before the yahrzeit, is said in a low tone. Is it not similar?

I am not familiar with this 'Ashkenaz custom'. Does Yisrael mean saying a 'Keil
malei rachamim' which is said in some shuls on the Shabbat before a yahrzeit,
some at shacharit and others at minchah - though I do not recollect it being
said any more or less audibly than Mi shebairachs. 

I have often wondered why it should be said at minchah - perhaps it is to avoid
tircha detzibbura [dragging out the davening]. Does anyone know of any source
for it?

Martin Stern

From: Orrin Tilevitz <tilevitzo@...>
Date: Mon, Nov 21,2022 at 06:17 PM
Subject: Inaudible Mi shebairachs

In response to Yisrael Medad (MJ 66#16):

First, it's not a parallel example because one prays for sick people to be
cured. One simply announces dead people. Second, why does Yisrael think the
practice -- which is far from universal -- of saying the yahrzeit "mi shebeirach" (I
assume you mean "El Malei Rachamim", unless there is a unique German custom I
know nothing about) inaudibly is authentic? In fact, the El Malei Rachamim is
called, in Sephardic parlance, an "azkara", literally, a "mentioning", so it
would be grotesque if it were said silently.


From: Ben Katz, M.D.<BKatz@...>
Date: Tue, Nov 22,2022 at 11:17 AM
Subject: Mashiv haru'ach

Haim Snyder wrote (MJ 66#16):

> In response to Chana Luntz (MJ 66#15):
> To be honest about it, I can understand why a nusach Ashkenz shul in galut 
> would have a sign "Mashiv Haru'ach" from Shmini Atzeret until the first day of 
> Pesach, since these are the first 2 words inserted after "rav l'hoshiah" only 
> during that part of the year.
> What I don't understand is that same sign in a nusach Ashkenaz shul in Israel,
> which I have seen.
> Since those shuls have a sign which says "Morid Hatal" for the summer, then, 
> in my opinion, for the winter they should either have a sign which says 
> "Mashiv haru'ach umorid hagashem" or, to save money, just "Morid Hagashem" 
> which is the case in the shul in which I daven in Petah Tikva.

Mr Snyder is correct.  In tefillat tal the nusach is mashiv haruach umorid
hatal.  (The wind after all does blow all year round.)  

My guess is that old fashioned siddurim or manuscripts didn't "waste words" so
the siddurim / manuscripts wrote:

Mashiv Haruach umorid hagashem / umorid hatal

assuming people would say the "missing" first 2 words as well in the summer, 
and then presumably the vav dropped out when people stopped saying mashiv haruach.

Happy Thanksgiving to all American MJ'ers.

Ben Katz


From: Carl Singer <carl.singer@...>
Date: Mon, Nov 21,2022 at 05:17 PM
Subject: Saying Kaddish

Thank you to Joel, Chana & Martin for your comments (MJ 66#16).

To narrow the question -- our community minhag is that more than one individual
can say kaddish.

The two specific cases in question are:

1 - saying kaddish on behalf of a friend, as opposed to a stranger who has no
living relatives -- in one case a holocaust survivor, in the other case a World
War II veteran who died childless.

2 - the other case is more personal.  My grandparents were killed in the
holocaust so my parents never observed a yahrzeit.  I recently came across
a picture of my great-grandfather's metzayvah. He was nifter in 1915 -- and I
now know his yahrzeit date.   I presume no one has said kaddish for him since
1938.   I decided to say kaddish and provide a tikun.  One of my sons, unknown
to me, but much to my delight, made a siyum.   BUT the question remains -- is
this proper / appropriate?

Carl A. Singer, Ph.D.Colonel, U.S. Army Retired
70 Howard Avenue
Passaic, NJ  07055-5328

From: Prof. L. Levine <llevine@...>
Date: Tue, Nov 22,2022 at 12:17 PM
Subject: Saying Kaddish

Martin Stern wrote (MJ 66#16):

> As a follower of the old Ashkenazi custom that each kaddish is said by only 
> one person, I would say that nobody should say a kaddish for anyone unless 
> there is nobody else present who is in aveilut for, or observing the yahrzeit 
> of, their father or mother. In that case, anybody can say the Aleinu kaddish  
> and, in fact, someone, usually the sheliach tzibbur, should do so so that it 
> should not be omitted. We have a general principle of "ein marbim
> bekaddeishim [we do not multiply the number of kaddeishim said]" so they
> should restrict themselves to this one kaddish only.

I was told recently that Rabbi Herschel Schecter would not say kaddish if
someone else was saying it.

When Rav Shimon Schwab lost a brother, he made a point to let people know that
he would not saying kaddish for him.

There is a story about Rav Yisroel Salanter in the book the Mussar Movement
about his approach to saying Kaddish. In the minyan where Reb Yisroel davened,
only one person said each Kaddish. On the day when Reb Yisroel had Yahrtzeit for
his father, a fellow came into the shul who insisted on saying Kaddish for his
daughter. When he was told that only one person said Kaddish in the minyan and
that Reb Yisroel had Yahrtzeit,  this fellow became very upset.  Reb Yisroel
said that this person should say Kaddish.

After davening they went over to Reb Yisroel and said, "You are a regular here,
and he is not. You are a real chiyuv, and he is not. Why did you let him say
Kaddish?'"  Reb Yisroel replied, "I thought it would be a bigger Zechus for my
father's Neshama if I let him say Kaddish."

IMO it is most unfortunate that many are obsessed with saying every kaddish,
every day.  When I lived in Elizabeth, NJ Rav Teitz instituted that all those
saying kaddish had to come and stand near the Shulchan when they said kaddish.

In some places, when there are many saying Kaddish, and they are scattered about
the shul, this results in much noise, and one cannot really hear the words of
the entire Kaddish.

Professor Yitzchok Levine


From: Chana Luntz <Chana@...>
Date: Mon, Nov 21,2022 at 08:17 PM
Subject: Two Days Yom Tov

Menashe Elyashiv wrote (MJ 66#16):

> Chana Luntz wrote (MJ 66#15):
>> Menashe Elyashiv  writes (MJ 66#14):
>>> Two days in temple time?? The two days started at the end of the Tannaim
>>> period, when the Cutim ruined the "torch system", that sent the right date 
>>> of Rosh Chodesh to Bavel.
>> On what basis does he conclude that the Cutim ruined the torch system at the
>> end of Tannaim period?
> My source is Yerushalmi Rosh Hashanah 58a: Rebbi (R. Yehuda Hanasi) canceled 
> the torches.

Very interesting.  I went to see how others deal with the problem.  And I
see that the Ra'avad (Mesechet Rosh Hashana 5b) writes:

"And I have a question from that which we see in the Yerushalmi [perek 2 halacha
1] that Rebbi nullified the torches, behold Rebbi was after the destruction of
the Temple by many years, and in the Mishna (daf 18a) it is
taught that at the time of the Temple they went out even in Iyar because of
Pesach katan, which is before Rebbe nullified the torches. And it seems to
me to say that the torches were in the beginning only in relation to Bavel
that was lower than them, but Syria and other countries that are on the
other sides there is no place for torches and it was that messengers always
went out to Syria, and not for the reason of violation but because this was
their way always." 

On the other hand, I see that in the Daf al Daf Rosh Hashana 22b they bring: 

"The Gaon R' Yitzchak Itzik Halevi in his book Dorot Harishonim (Chelek 1
krach 4 page 133) comments:

It is not possible that Rebbe, that is Rebbi Yehuda HaNasi nullified the
torches, because it is explicit in the Mishna 3 perek 1 that the messengers
were already going out when the Temple was standing, so it is clear that
before Rebbe the torches were already nullified. Therefore writes the author
of the Dorot Harishonim: And, if so, there is to conclude: either the
Yerushalmi is missing the word "Gamliel" after Rebbe, and it needs to be
"Rabanan Gamliel nullified" or because the Yerushalmi brings an old braita
from the days of Rabbi Gamliel hazaken, and he was also called in his time
Rebbe, just like in the generations that came later they called the Nasi of
the generation simply Rebbe". 

However, it seems to me that the straightforward explanation is simpler than
both of these.  Because that gemara in the Yerushalmi appears to be
discussing various matters in relation to Tiberia (where Rebbe's Sanhedrin
would have been at the time) and Sfat (up on the hill above it) - with
references to activities local to Tiberia and Sfat (as well as pernicious
Cutim in Sfat causing a whole range of problems).  So, logically, the
torches that are being discussed in the Yerushalmi in this section are
torches that were used by those in Tiberia to let those in Sfat know
promptly the date of Rosh Chodesh (hence the question about whether the
inhabitant of Sfat should light torches in return to show they had seen),
and then when the Cutim started up to their usual tricks and caused problems
for these torches just as their ancestors had done at the time of the
Temple, Rebbe - just as his forebears had done at the time of the Temple in
relation to the international torches, nullified those local torches.

Kind regards



End of Volume 66 Issue 17