Volume 9 Number 24
                       Produced: Sun Sep 19 13:45:19 1993

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Celebrating the birth of a daughter
         [Robert Klein]
Date of Destruction of First Beis HaMikdash
         [David Kaufmann ]
Eruv Construction
         [Howard Reich]
Gedolim and Peace Agreemtnt
         [Shaya Karlinsky]
Kolki, Poland
         [Gary Levin]
Moshiach -- Why do we care?
         [Andy Goldfinger]
Protests against Israel
         [Yosef Bechhofer]
Shir HaMa'alot correct reading
         [Dov Bloom]
Yitzchok arguing for redemption
         [Percy Mett]


From: <robertk@...> (Robert Klein)
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 93 07:32:19 -0400
Subject: Celebrating the birth of a daughter

On Rosh Hashana, my wife gave birth to a girl.
We are looking for suggestions for possible ways of celebrating this 
wonderful occasion in addition to being called to the torah.
Blu Greenburg discusses a Simchat HaBat ceremony that sounds lovely 
but I'd also like to hear about possible alternatives.
Many thanks and l'shana tova.

Robert Klein
13 Forest Knoll Ave,


From: David Kaufmann  <david@...>
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 93 02:57:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Date of Destruction of First Beis HaMikdash

A little while ago I asked for evidence from secular scholarship refuting
the documentary hypothesis and supporting Mosaic authorship.  Someone
recommended Kitchen's _Ancient Orient and Old Testament_, which has
proven to be exactly the source I was looking for. (Thought written
almost 30 years ago, its arguments are still valid.)

It raised, however, another question that has also bothered me off and
on for some time: traditional chronology dates the destruction of the
First Beis HaMikdash in the mid-400's, some 130 or so years later than
the scholarly 586/7. I think this is based on dating Sancheriv at 720 vs
600. Yet the best scholarship agrees with tradition on the dating of the
Exodus until David.

So, does anyone know of an objective discussion of the discrepancy, or
better yet, a reconciliation? 

David Kaufmann
INTERNET:	david@.ee.tulane.edu


From: Howard Reich <71630.3433@...>
Date: 14 Sep 93 20:54:14 EDT
Subject: Re: Eruv Construction

In response to Daniel Friedman's request in Vol. 9 #19, for sources for
books on constructing an eruv, I would recommend "Eruv Manual," by Dr.
Bert Miller, available from its author at The Eruv of Baltimore, Inc.,
P.O. Box 32426, Baltimore, Maryland 21208.


From: Shaya Karlinsky <HCUWK@...>
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1993 08:25 IST
Subject: Gedolim and Peace Agreemtnt

<YOSEF_BECHHOFER@...> (Yosef Bechhofer) writes on the
Peace Agreement:

>        The NRP, Lubavitch and Shas views on the accords are highly
>publicized here, but what is the "reid" (Yeshivish for "talk", but
>more effective term) on the attitudes in Bnei Brak and the
>Ponivitch, Chevron, Mir Yeshiva World?  Just Curious.

     The way I understand the leanings of the Litveshe and non Chabad
Chasidishe gedolim (the phrase "as I understand it," should always be
added to anyone who claims to tell you what gedolim are saying) is that
we cannot trust the present government and leaders to accurately and
honestly analyze and present the facts.  When they say that in their
expert opinion the following things are likely to happen, or that this
is the best agreement we can get and the alternative is ..., they simply
cannot be believed, since they have no credibility in general, and have
demonstrated no sensitivity and care for the overall welfare of klal
Yisrael as we know it.  While the Likud leaders are not observant Jews,
they have more credibility when they say this is what the agreement
says, or this is the likely outcome of the agreement, etc.  It would be
like a Rav hearing a medical assessment from a doctor that he felt was
dishonest.  He can't rely on a dagnosis to reach a psak unless he was
convinced that a) the doctor was an honest person and b) the doctor had
the welfare of the patient at heart.  The present government doesn't
seem to fit this bill.
     I might add that in listening to the media and left wing
politicians (it is sometimes hard to distinguish between the two groups)
I see that they don't begin to understand the mechanisms of a psak
Halacha in this area.  Rav Ovadia Yosef wrote a Tshuva long ago which
has been simplified into the sound-bite "Pikuach nefesh doche shtachim,"
saving lives overrides holding territory.  (Rav Shach's approach has
been summarized the same way.)  So, the media is asking, how can they
possibly oppose this agreement?  Despite very clear explanations from
spokesmen from both Shas and Aguda, they can't seem to understand that
IF this agreement endangers the lives of 120,000 Jewish settlers, not to
mention the possibility of terrorist anarchy in the evacuated
territories spilling over to "Israel proper," then the concept of
pikuach nefesh dictates that we reject this agreement.  It sounds to
this listener like the politicians/media are really saying that since
the Rabbis agreed we COULD "give up land for peace," why are they asking
so many questions?
     Gmar Chasima Tova to all.  Whatever one thinks of the agreement, it
is clear that Klal Yisrael needs much rachamei shamyim at this time.

Shaya Karlinsky
Yeshivat Darche Noam / Shapell's
POB 35209 Jerusalem, ISRAEL


From: Gary Levin <levin@...>
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 93 15:29:23 -0700
Subject: Kolki, Poland

Does anyone know of or have relatives from Kolki, Poland. Kolki is a
small town about 20 miles from Minsk in the province of Voloynia. I
would like to learn about the customs of the people who lived there.
Were they hassidim or mitnagdim ?

Does anyone know of a Yizkor book that may have been published after the
Second World War ?

Any information would be appreciated.

  | / |  Gary B. Levin        AZ43 DW278    PHONE: (602) 438-3064       | \ |
  | / |  2900 South Diablo Way                FAX: (602) 438-3836       | \ |
  | / |  Tempe, Arizona 85282              Beeper: (602) 244-3252 x1689 | \ |
  | / |  <levin@...>                                          | \ |


From: Andy Goldfinger <andy_goldfinger@...>
Date: 15 Sep 1993 10:26:12 U
Subject: Moshiach -- Why do we care?

This is not another speculation into who Moshiach may or may not be, but
rather it is the asking of a question that has bothered me lately,
namely, why do we care who Moshiach is?

Let me explain.  We know that there are nevuous (prophecies) that there
will come a future time during which the world will be perfected, and
that this will come about through the agency of a King of Israel.  We
certainly all hope the time will be soon, and we should all try to
perfect ourselves as best we can to hurry the arrival of this epoch.
But -- what is the "nafka minah" (the practical halachic consequence) of
our being able to identify a given person as being the King who is
spoken of?  The Rambam tells us that Moshiach will be accepted as a King
of Israel as a precursor to his fullfilling his "job description."
 As a King, we will be obligated to follow his rulings, but this is true
of any King whether he is "Moshiach Tzidkenu" of not.  As Moshiach, this
King will exhort us to follow the Torah, but we should do this anyway.
This King will fight the battles of the Jewish people and gather in all
the Jewish people.  So?  This is a prophecy.  Suppose it happens, and we
all end up in Israel observing the Torah?  Would this fact cause us to
change our goals in any way other than to try to observe the mitzvos as
we now do?  I have not been able to think of any halachic reason why we
should be able to accurately identify who the Moshiach is.  Yet, I feel
there must be such a "nafka minah" since the Rambam has taken the
trouble to give us a "halacha" on which to base the identification.
Does anyone have an answer to this question?

(note added in proof: of course, one "nafka minah" might be that we
would stop dovening (praying) for Moshiach and make certain changes in
our nuschaos (liturgical forms) such as parts of the Shmoneh Esrai
(Amidah), but these are consequences in hilchos d'rabannan [rabbinic
law] or in minhag [custom].  Are there any d'oraysa [Divine law]


From: <YOSEF_BECHHOFER@...> (Yosef Bechhofer)
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 93 02:57:31 -0400
Subject: Protests against Israel

It is, in my opinion, of course, improper and self defeating to
demonstrate against the Israeli government's acquiesence to the Peace
Accord. a) Any Jewish demonstration against Israel seriously risks the
Unity of the Jewish People (it does not matter that at the moment the
government is run by "Chilonim" - they are also Jews). If we lived in
Israel, then that would be another matter - a democracy allows for
protests and demonstrations internally - but here our task is "Israel
right or wrong." I find it especially distasteful that certain elements
of the community who would never dream of marching for Israel all of a
sudden woke up to this issue.

b) More importantly, when Orthodox Jews do things like get their picture
in the Times attacking the Israeli Ambassador, and are quoted on the
radio calling Rabin a traitor and worse, a tremendous Chillul Hashem is
created. The media and Non-Orthodox seize the opportunity to lump us
together with rabid Moslem fundamentalist opponents to the accords. This
certainly gives us a very bad image, and detracts from our role as the
representatives of Hashem on this Earth, and anyway basically
obliterates any possible impression that the demonstrations might have.

This is a time, and a time of year, for tefilla and increased observance
in the hope of generating the additional kedusha necessary to assure the
security of the Chosen Nation. If you really want to demonstrate, get on
the plane and do it in Israel.

Kesiva vaChasima Tova


From: <bloomdov@...> (Dov Bloom)
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 93 17:04:11 +0200
Subject: Shir HaMa'alot correct reading

Larry Weisberg in v9 n18 pointed out the correct reading for the verse
nafshi la-shem: mishomrim laboker, shomrm laboker. This is one of the 2
places where the tradition recicitive tune is slightly off, if one looks
at the pauses indicated by the te'amim.

The second place, also easy correctable if one wants to chant properly,
is the first verse of Psalm 130!

The second part of the verse should be divided:
			mima'amakim kratiha, Hashem. 
It is incorrect to chant mima'amakim,     kratiha Hashem.  The ta'amim here are
a bit more obscure that the major disjunct etnachta and oleh veyored that
Larry mentioned, but clear none the less. 

			Gmar Chatima Tova to all

			Dov Bloom     Kibbutz Maale Gilboa


From: <P.Mett@...> (Percy Mett)
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 93 12:13:51 BST
Subject: Yitzchok arguing for redemption

[M-J vol 9 #18]:
>From: Kibi Hofmann <hofmanna@...>
>Yitzchok says "My children and not yours? Isn't there a posuk which says
>they are the  firstborn children of G-d? And anyway how much can they sin?
>If you count a normal life as 70 years, then they only can sin 50 years
>from 20 up (since sins aren't counted in heaven below age twenty) to 70.
>Take away half the nights - spent on sleeping and you are left with 25.
>Take away another half for praying, eating and other "essentials" and they
>only have 12 and a half years. If you can take that all then good,
>if not then split it with me. And if you want me to take it all then remember
>that I did offer myself on the altar to you!"

I once heard this Gemoro used as an explanation for cryptic passage
%%Hoshano sholosh sho'os%% ( in the Hoshano beginning E-l lemoysho'os):

The gemoro quotes Yitschok Ovinu saying that only a quarter of each day is
available for sinning i.e. six hours in each 24-hour period. Of these six
hours, %%palgo olay upalgo olecho%% which accounts for three of those hours
leaving three = sholosh sho'os. We now ask HKBH to give us salvation in
respect of the remaining three hours!

Kesivo Vachasimo Tovo
Perets Mett


End of Volume 9 Issue 24