Volume 9 Number 74
                       Produced: Sun Oct 31  7:38:57 1993

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

"Be Fruitful" and Noachide Laws
         [Arthur Roth]
         [David Charlap]
         [Arnold Lustiger]
M&M's and Tastycake
         [Michael Lipkin]
         [J. Y. Yosh Mantinband]
Precession of the equinoxes
         [Pinchas Edelson]
         [Steven Edell]
Samkhem be-Vinyan Shalem
         [Aryeh Frimer                       ]
Sara & Hagar
         [Michael Kramer]
Shabbos times in Houston, TX
         [Jack Reiner]


From: <rotha@...> (Arthur Roth)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 93 09:44:16 -0500
Subject: "Be Fruitful" and Noachide Laws

    Art Kamlet (MJ 9:73) asks why "Be Fruitful" is not one of the 
seven Noachide laws when this instruction was specifically given to 
Noah after the flood.  In my not-too-old posting on the topic of 
abortion (MJ 8:59), I quoted Rabbi Irons to the effect that "Be 
Fruitful" is the ONLY commandment given originally to the nations of 
the world and then taken away from them and transferred to the Jews at 
the time the Torah was given.  I don't know the source for either the
change in status of "Be Fruitful" or the fact that there is no other
commandment whose status changed in this way.  Any help here?

Arthur Roth


From: <dic5340@...> (David Charlap)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 21:36:31 -0400
Subject: Hagar

Steven Friedell <friedell@...> writes:
>It could be that Hagar was the ancestor of the Hagrites mentioned in Ps.
>83:7 and in 1 Chron. 5:10 et seq.  They were a clan who were enemies of

Definitely not.  Hagar was from Egypt (Mitzrayim).  She was actually the
king's daughter.  He gave her to Avraham because he saw Avraham as
greater than a prince - probably due to his revelation about Hashem and
Avraham after the bad experience with Sarah.


From: <alustig@...> (Arnold Lustiger)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 93 10:09:01 -0400
Subject: Re: M&M's

This morning on the Jewish radio program JM in the AM, Rabbi Joseph
Grunblatt of the OU has announced that all (presumably only American)
M&M's are now under hashgacha from the OU. The hashgacha applies even
though the OU does not yet appear on the packages. There is still no
hashgacha on American Mars, Snickers, 3 Musketeers, etc.

Welcome to gashmiut city. What's next? McDonald's?

Arnie Lustiger


From: Michael Lipkin <laster@...>
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 19:35:04 -0400
Subject: M&M's and Tastycake

I called the Orthodox Union in NY this morning (212-563-4000).  The
woman in Kashrut with whom I spoke confirmed that M&M's are now
certified by the OU.  This applies only to M&M's, NOT other Mars
products (such as Milky Way, Snickers, etc.).  The supervision does
apply to; plain, peanut, almond, peanut butter, and mint.  Also to the
XMAS versions of all of the above.  She informed me that the package
does not yet bear the OU symbol (they will with the next packaging run),
but that products currently on the shelf are under supervision effective

I did some research into the KOA and Tasytake.  The Rav in charge of the
KOA is Rabbi Mayer Issacson of Staten Island.  The Rav Hamachsir of
Tastytake is a Rabbi Issacson (son?) of Passaic.  I asked an LOR here in
Highland Park who said, "I cannot recommend it [Tastycake products]".

Michael Lipkin
Highland Park, NJ


From: J. Y. Yosh Mantinband <cm406@...>
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 16:39:28 -0400
Subject: Phoenix

Looks like I'm going to be spending Shabbat in Phoenix on Nov 12-13.
Anyone know anything about the community there?  Please let me know soon
as I'm leaving Israel in about a week.  You can respond to the address
below - it gets to me...



From: Pinchas Edelson <Edelson@...>
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 00:43:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Precession of the equinoxes

	The Rambam writes in Hilchos Yesodei HaTorah Perek 3 Halacha 7
how the constellations have moved from their position since the time of
the mabul. Some stars in the constellations are now within the sectors
allotted to their neighboring constellations. The Rambam attributes this
to the movement of the Galgal HaShmini which rotates "b'kavaidus"
(heavily, i.e. slowly). This movement is with respect to the Galgal
HaTeshii where the forms of the constellations are visible from the
major stars in the constellation. Therefore, the forms of these
constellations no longer correspond to the positions of these stars.
This rotation is about one 'malah' (degree) in seventy years.
	The mefarshim there explain that this phenomenon was only sited
by later chachamim who observed a rotation of one 'malah' in seventy
years. Because of this a star which was once in the beginning of the
Mazal Shor (Taurus) would be twenty malahs into the Mazal Tomim (Gemini)
near the time of the Rambam.
	In Hilchos Kiddush HaChodesh Perek 11 Halacha 16, the Rambam 
gives the date for his writing of those halachos as 4938. In Perek 11 
Halacha 7, the Rambam defines a malah as 1/360 of a circle, i.e. one 
degree, and that each of the twelve constellations occupies thirty 
degrees. Now if the mabul was in the year 1656, the Rambam wrote these 
halachos 3282 years after the mabul. The result would be 46.9 degrees. A 
star 3.1 degrees into the beginning of the Mazal Shor (Taurus) would be 
twenty malahs into the Mazal Tomim (Gemini) near the time of the Rambam.
	According to the Rambam in Hilchos Kiddush HaChodesh Perek 12 
Halacha 2, the movement of the apogee point of the Galgal HaShemesh is 
described in more detail, and according to that calculation the movement 
would be about one degree (1.0027) in about 66 (one degree in 65.7 years) 
years.  Here the result would be about 49.7 degrees, which would fit for 
a star in the first 1/4 degrees into the beginning of the Mazal Shor 
(Taurus) would be twenty malahs into the Mazal Tomim (Gemini) near the 
time of the Rambam. This  would be about 1.0564 degrees in seventy years, 
or about 0.015 degrees per year. This is quite close to the modern 
calculation of precession of the equinoxes.
	Regarding the Pleiades, or Cima, there are over fifty instances 
where it is mentioned in Shas...etc. See Amos 5:8, Job 38:31, Baal 
HaTurim Parshas Noach Perek 7:11, Brochos 58:2, Tanna Dvei Eliahu Rabbah 
2:12, and others.

Pinchas Edelson


From: Steven Edell <edell@...>
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 09:32:20 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Samaritans

I just had a difference of opinion with someone, on another list,
concerning the Samaritans, who live in Israel, can trace their heritage
back to Temple days, follow the written Torah to the letter (but don't
recognize the Oral law at all), and every Pesach sacrifice a "Paschal"
lamb on Mount Gerizim.

I say they are still considered Jews (as a matter of fact I was told
that they actively seek out Jewish brides as their people is
'male-heavy'); he feels that I am "very wrong".

Could anyone enlighten us?  Thank you!

Steven Edell, Computer Manager   Internet:<edell@...>
United Israel Appeal, Inc                   <uio@...>
(United Israel Office)            Voice:  972-2-255513
Jerusalem, Israel                 Fax  :  972-2-247261


From: Aryeh Frimer                        <F66235@...>
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 93 02:18:15 -0400
Subject: Samkhem be-Vinyan Shalem

"Samkhem be-Vinyan Shalem" appears in the Friday evening zemirah "Kol
Mekadesh Shevi'i"  in the verse beginning "Meshokh Hasdekha".
Interstingly, the zemirah is based on the alphabet and "Samkhem" written
with a "sin" replaces a "samekh" - though that is not uncommon.


From: <mpkramer@...> (Michael Kramer)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 17:51:23 -0400
Subject: Sara & Hagar 

Gary Levin writes:
> Let me post this question. After reading the Torah portion of Lech-LeCha
> and the story of Sara and Hagar. Has anyone ever read that perhaps the
> Torah calls Hagar because she was the Gerah (convert) Ha-Garah or
> perhaps Ha-Gar for short ?
> It would fit with Torah law that Sara may have considered Hagar as a
> fitting wife for Avraham due to her observance and not soley for her
> reproductive qualities.

Nice try.  I don't really know if anyone's ever tried this sort of
homiletic etymology with Hagar's name.  But the word "ger" in the Torah
doesn't mean "convert."  It means "sojourner" (or stranger).  That's why
Avraham can say to bnei Het (next week's leyning) "ger vetoshav anokhi
imakhem" ("I'm a stranger and sojourner among you.")  And that's why
Bnei Yisrael are commended not to oppress the "ger" because they
themselves were "gerim" in Egypt.

Still, Hagar's name may still be seen to have significance.  Being twice
uprotted from her home with Avraham and Sara, she became a "mehageret" or

Michael P. Kramer                          WORDS TO LIVE BY:    
Department of English                      "Ben Heh Heh omer:   
University of California, Davis            Lefum tzaara agra."  
Davis, CA 95616                                   --Avot 5:27 


From: <jack@...> (Jack Reiner)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 15:04:46 CDT
Subject: Shabbos times in Houston, TX

Shalom Y'all!

I will be in Houston, TX during Shabbos on Dec 3-4, 1993.  I need to know
the times of sundown on 12/3/93 (fri) and 12/4/93 (sat).  I believe that 
Houston is approximately:

     latitude  29 degrees, 45 minutes North
     longitude 95 degrees, 25 minutes West

If someone can tell me the sundown times, I would appreciate it.  Thank you.

Regards,                                 | To do justly,                     |
Jack Reiner                              | To love mercy,                    |
<jack@...>                  | And to walk humbly with thy G-D   |
#include <standard_disclaimers.h>        |                       Micah 6:8   |


End of Volume 9 Issue 74