Volume 21 Number 60
                       Produced: Mon Oct  2 22:07:57 1995

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Ben Hashmashot
         [Jan David Meisler]
messianic Jews (3)
         [Joe Goldstein, Max Shenker, Aaron H. Greenberg]
messianic Jews, San Diego
         [Louise Miller]
Mixed Marriage: Sephardim and Ashkenazim
         [Steve Gindi]
Ritalin tablets
         [Zev Kesselman]
Second Day
         [Mechy Frankel]
Second Day Rosh Hashanah
         [Israel Rosenfeld]
Tanach and Talmud in Hebrew Online
         [Dave Curwin]
Unusual B'rachot
         [Bill Page]


From: Jan David Meisler <jm8o+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Mon,  2 Oct 1995 13:25:46 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Ben Hashmashot

Ari Greensapn made two points that sounded a bit strange to me, and I
was wondering if I was just making a mistake in my understanding.  He
mentioned that Ben Hashmashot is 18 minutes long.  I thought that we
consider ben hashmashot to be the time between sunset and when the stars
come out.  I thought that that was a bit longer than 18 minutes (perhaps
42 minutes apx.), unless it is really 18 minutes in Jerusalem.

He also mentioned that R' Elazar Memitz learned that twillight is 3/4
mil before sunset, and therefore the issurim of shabbos begin then.  I'd
just like to ask first, who is R' Elazar Memitz?  When did he live?  He
also pointed out that although we don't follow by this opinion, that is
where the custom of lighting candles 18 minutes before sunset comes
from.  First, I thought this opinion attributed to R' Elazar Memitz was
the opinion of R' Yehudah in the mishna.  He felt that night began as
early as plag haminchah.  Second, I thought the custom to light candles
18 minutes before sunet stemmed from the fact that we should add from
the kedushah of shabbos (the sanctity of shabbos) on to the weekday.
Why 18 minutes, that I never really knew.



From: Joe Goldstein <vip0280@...>
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 95 09:40:48 
Subject: messianic Jews

Mr kohl writes                                                                 
>        The organization, Jews for Judaism is based in Baltimore. The         
>name of the director is Mark Powers. I don't have their number but they       
>have a page on web. I think that it is in the jer1.co.il server but it        
>shouldn't be too hard to find. I actually think that they have a west         
>coast office.                                                                 

    I just got off of the phone with "Jews for Judaism" here in
Baltimore (Phone number is (410) 602-0276) and they suggested contacting
their Los Angeles office.  The person in charge there is: Rabbi Ben Zion
Kravitz (310) 854 - 3381.

   May we all be zocheh to see the day when "all evil disappears as in a
puff of smoke"

Gmar Chasima Tovah


[Similar information sent in by Max Shenker <shenker@...>]

From: Aaron H. Greenberg <greenbah@...>
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 14:21:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: messianic Jews

Jews for Judaism has several office in teh United States.  The closest
to you is in Baltimore.  The contact there is Mark Powers,

email <mpowers@...>
Voice: (410) 602-0276
FAX: (410) 602-0578 

You can also check out their Web site: http://www.clark.net/pub/mpowers/j4j

There is also an office in  Los Angelos, which is closer to your
children, the contect there is:Rabbi Bentzion Kravitz

email <bzkjfj@...>
Voice: (310) 854-3381
FAX: (310) 854-3662

I know there is a rabbi, who live in Long Island who is devoted to
getting Jewish children away from missionaries, He was a guest speaker
at a shabbaton at the University of Pennsylvania, and was very good.  His
name was Rabbi Tuvia Singer, I beleive, but I have no idea how to
contact him.

I will try to find out how to contact him, and if successful, I will
send another post.

Aaron Greenberg

[You could try contacting his father, Cantor Shlomo Singer in Passaic,
New Jersey. Mod]

From: <miller@...> (Louise Miller)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 95 12:44:11 PDT
Subject: messianic Jews, San Diego

The shul in La Jolla (UCSD area) is Adat Yeshurun, and the rabbi is
Jeffrey Wohlgelernter.  He's a dynamic and powerful personality who
might be able to do some good in your daughter's situation.  I live in
the UCSD area, and if there's anything I can do to help, please let me

Shul number (619) 535-1196.  (Phone is answered in the mornings only

I have both Rabbi Wohlgelernter's and Rabbi Lederman's home
phone numbers.  I will send them to Lois privately.

Our congregation will be davening at the La Jolla Hyatt Avantine for Yom
Kippur.  Please come, and introduce yourself to me.  (I'll be chasing a
2 yr. old.)

Rabbi Langer from Beth Jacob is making aliyah in the fall.  (That's the
shul near SDSU.)

There are several Chabad communities here in addition to Rabbi
Fradkin's.  The one nearest to me is Rabbi Moshe Leider's shul, Chabad
of University City.  (619) 455-1670.  Rabbi Leider is a kind and warm
man.  They will be davening at a conference hall next to the La Jolla
Marriot for YK.

Let's take the rest of this offline.  Please e-mail me if there's
anything else you need.

Good luck!
Louise Miller
(is this a coincedence, or what?)


From: Steve Gindi <steve@...>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 20:29:46 GMT
Subject: Mixed Marriage: Sephardim and Ashkenazim

> a) Israel's intermarriage rate is now 53%, compared to the 52%
> intermarriage rate in the US - with one major difference. The Israeli
> rate represents intermarriage between Sephardim and Ashkenazim, not
> between Jews and non-Jews (as is the case in the US). About 20-25 years
> ago, the rate in Israel was about 20%. It will be interesting to see
> what effect this will have in the long term in terms of different
> customs and practices.

Both my mother and my wife are Ashkenazim. I consider myself a pure
Sepharadi. This entertains people as I am very light skinned. The only
Ashkenazi customs I have is that I went to college and that I sing in
Ashkenazi tune Shalom Aliechem and Eshet Chayil.

I hope my children continue to intemarry in this way. In the words of
Family friend it bring true Achdut to Am Yisrael!!

Tizku Leshanim Rabot,
Steve Gindi                             NetMedia (Home of Jerusalem One)
Tech Support                          ------------------------------------- 
<Steve@...>                  "Information at the Speed of Thought"


From: Zev Kesselman <zev%<hadassah@...>
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 1995 13:53:11 EDT
Subject: Ritalin tablets

	Has anyone seen a wriiten psak on the permissibility of using
Ritalin tablets on Shabbat for ADD (attention deficit disorder) children?

				Zev Kesselman


From: Mechy Frankel <FRANKEL@...>
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 1995 15:22:12 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Second Day

1. A poster recently inquired about the source for the second day RH,
referring to it as "takanas neviim".  This doesn't seem likely, since,
until the set calendar came into general use to fix the months, RH could
be either one or two days, depending on when the tishrei new moon
witnesses showed up.  Since this calendrical reform is traditionally
associated with Hillel II, in the +300s, it would approximately date the
always-two-day-yom-tov to a period some 700 years or so after Malachi,
the last navih.  (there are many indications that calendrical reform was
a more extended and involved process, and involved over time other
people than Hillel II).

2.  There is also evidence that the 2-day RH calendrical reform did not
completely "take" for a long time, at least in Israel proper.  There are
tishuvos extending well past the year 1000 (e.g. the Razah - though I
don't have precise citation with me at the moment) which indicate that
in at least some parts of Eretz Yisrael after the establishment of a
fixed calendar the custom remained to keep one day RH, though
eventually, somewhere in medieval times, this custom seems to have
finally withered away - apparently under the pressure of an unrelenting
opposition by the many Babylonian settlers.

3. The rationale for keeping two days even when the issue of safek has
been removed by a fixed calendar is a gezeira requiring us to keep
minhag avoseinu biyodaynu, i.e. to commemorate the practice of those in
chutz la'aretz who kept two days in ancient times when they lived beyond
the reach of the jerusalem bais din's communications web, and presumably
those in Eretz Yisrael who kept two days when the witnesses or cloud
cover didn't cooperate. One can see why some of the Israeli communities
may have had problems with this.  Incidentally, from a halachic
perspective, one might consider our modern celebration of two days of RH
to be more chamur than ancient two day yom tovs, since the old two day
yom tovs always involved one day with a safek status. The first day was
thus celebrated in eretz yisrael in anticipation that the witnesses
might show up later that day and it would be declared RH, while in (far)
chutz la'aretz they could never really be sure and automatically
celebrated for two days.  (Actually, it was probably a rare event in
Eretz Yisrael to have a two day yom tov, since the gemara in Rosh
hashana 20 informs us that "from the time of Ezra, Elul was never
extended (i.e. it was always a 29 day month)", however there are also
counter indications in the gemara two blat later), while our two days -
or our halachic "yoma arichta" - are always done as a "vadai" in
fulfillment of the gezeira. - with some nit picky caveats, e.g. if
witnesses came after mincha, during one historical period when a takana
which had existed not to accept them the same day was repealed by
R. Yochanan b. Zacai, there is some (rashi/tos) dispute whether a second
day continued to be celebrated in this period or not, and thus what its
status would be.

4. You might want to consult Zevin's extended summary of this issue in
Moadim Lehalacha. Quite briefly he distinguishes four eras.  1: where
witnesses were accepted any time (what would have been) the 30th of
Elul, 2: where witnesses were accepted only up until mincha of the 30th
of Elul, 3: A restoration of the practice of accepting witnesses the
whole day of 30th of Elul (after the destruction of the 2nd Bais Mikdash
when the reason for the minhcha takana disappeared), though a difference
of opinion exists whether this meant simply a return to era 1, or not,
(see par. 3) and 4: where the holiday was fixed by the calendar and,
paradoxically, always celebrated two days.  There are also differences
in these periods, and (in sub periods when the bais din messaging system
was compromised by local disputes with Kusim) between the practice in
eretz yisrael and chutz la'aretz.

Gimar chasima tova to one and all.

Mechy Frankel                                   W: (703)  325-1277
<frankel@...>                             H: (301)  593-3949


From: <iir@...> (Israel Rosenfeld)
Date: Sun,  1 Oct 95 14:17 +0200
Subject: Second Day Rosh Hashanah

In answer to the question: Why two days even in Israel?

I quote: Tractate Rosh Hashanah page 30b, mishnah.
              (This is the third mishna in chapter 4).

At first, witnesses (who claimed to have seen the new moon) were
accepted all day (30th Ellul).  One time, the witnesses came late and
ruined the Levi'im's singing (they did not sing at all during the
afternoon Korban because they did not know what to sing - Chol or Chag).
Therefor, the Rabbis decided to accept witnesses only till Mincha.  BUT!
Should witnesses appear after Mincha, that day would be kodesh and the
following one too.
 (Note - this gives rise to three (!) possibilities:
                 1. Ellul 29 days and RH one day.
                 2. Ellul 30 days and RH one day.
                 3. Ellul 29 days and RH two days.)  
 When the Temple was destroyed, Rabbi Yochanan ben Zakai allowed
acceptance of witnesses all day.

I further quote: Tractate Beitza page 5b:

Rava says: Even after Rabbi Yochanan ben Zakai allowed witnesses an egg
born the first day is prohibited the second day (that is, Rosh Hashanah
is two days).  Rava explains: Rabbi Yochanan ben Zakai admits that if
witnesses arrived after Mincha, we still keep two days.  Rashi explains:
Because the first Takana (the Mishna in Rosh Hashanah) is still in

In conclusion, because even during the Temple period, every one kept two
days (because of possibilty 3), we continue so today.

Gmar Chatima Tova and Shana Tova



From: Dave Curwin <6524dcurw@...>
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 1995 10:26:09 EST
Subject: Tanach and Talmud in Hebrew Online

I found a site where the entire Tanach, Talmud Bavli and Talmud 
Yerushalmi, in Hebrew, can be found online in searchable, hypertext
format. It can be found at:

David Curwin		With wife Toby, Shaliach to Boston, MA
904 Centre St.          List Owner of B-AKIVA on Jerusalem One
Newton, MA 02159                   <6524dcurw@...>
617 527 0977          Why are we here? "L'hafitz Tora V'Avoda"


From: Bill Page <Page@...>
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 1995 10:02:26 -0500
Subject: Unusual B'rachot

In the discussion of this topic a few weeks ago, no one raised the
b'racha on seeing 600,000 Jews together.  I have two questions about
this b'racha:
1.  When have there been opportunities to make it?
2.  Why does the b'racha refer to Hashem as "chacham harazim"
[knower of secrets] ?


End of Volume 21 Issue 60