Volume 32 Number 19
                 Produced: Thu May  4  6:25:30 US/Eastern 2000

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Carrying in shoes on Shabbat
         [Sherman Marcus]
Corporal punishment
         [Carl Singer]
Drug Problems in the Yeshiva World
         [Rise Goldstein]
Each word divine
         [Moshe Rudner]
Grama-operated electric wheelchair
         [Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz]
Jewish Jurors
         [David Riceman]
The Kitzur Shulchan Aruch
         [Shlomo B Abeles]
Rav Soloveitchik's works (3)
         [Eli Turkel, Yael Aldrich, Richard Goldberg]
Recordings for children
         [Frank Silbermann]
Women and their obligation to Pray with A Minyan
         [Russell Hendel]
A Zeesen Pesach
         [Sheldon Meth]


From: Sherman Marcus <shermanm@...>
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 21:06:02 +0300
Subject: Carrying in shoes on Shabbat

I just spoke to a couple who returned from a trip to Australia / New
Zealand where they heard a supposedly reliable heter that a key may be
carried on Shabbat by placing it in a shoe.

My first response was incredulity. But then again there might be
principles involved of which I am unaware.  Or perhaps someone along the
line simply misunderstood something.

Has anyone heard such a heter? Could anyone speculate as to its


From: Carl Singer <CARLSINGER@...>
Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 09:04:30 EDT
Subject: Re: Corporal punishment

<< If only the yeshivos that spend so much time on mussar, hashkofe and
lomdus would allocate some of the time to parenting and bringing up
children there could be hope for future generations. >>

I would be inclined to substitute the word "parents" for "yeshivos" in
the above.  The Yeshiva is only an agent of the parent.

Yeshivos follow the direction given them by "their" parents (i.e., the
parents of their students.)  If the parents miss the target re: what's
important in the upbringing of their children then the message they pass
to the yeshiva (re: the yeshiva portion of that upbringing "equation")
is definitionally off target.

In words of one syllable: it is not the school, it is the home that must
choose the right way for the child.

Remember, one needs a license and presumably some training / practice to
drive a car -- one can become a parent without even a photo ID.

Carl Singer


From: Rise Goldstein <Rbg29861@...>
Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 07:22:30 EDT
Subject: Re: Drug Problems in the Yeshiva World

Russell Hendel wrote:

> So let me ask: What **is** being done about drugs in the Yeshiva world?
>  How widespread is it? I concede to David Zwillenberg that the situation
>  is complex but there are still known concepts that can significantly
>  ameliorate such situations(eg education, other outlets, etc) Are they
>  being applied? And if not why not?
>  We have been discussing Aliyah, collect calls and invisibility for quite
>  a while. I would think that Yeshiva drugs are equally important.

As a doctoral level mental health and substance abuse researcher, I must
agree.  At one point I was contacted for input into the efforts of one
community to address these issues but those efforts apparently haven't
gone anywhere since.  If I can contribute to anybody else's work in this
area, I would be pleased and honored to do so.  Interested persons are
welcome to e-mail me privately.

Rise Goldstein (<Rbg29861@...>)
Silver Spring, MD


From: Moshe Rudner <mosherudner@...>
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 21:34:35 IDT
Subject: Each word divine


The Rambam wrote that every word of Torah was written by Moses as
dictated by G-d (Tfillah 13:6). He also wrote that anyone claiming
otherwise, even that one letter was not dictated by G-d to Moses, is a
Kofer BaTorah and has no portion in the world to come (Tshuva 13:8). The
Kesf Mishneh wrote that Maimonides's decision is based on Sanhedrin 90b
and 99b.

What do other Rishonim have to say on the topic?

Ibn Ezra feels that the last 13 verses were written by Joshua. What does
he hold with regards to the rest of the Torah?

I once heard that a letter recently showed up authored by Rabbi Yehudah
Halevi (or was it HaChassid) saying that not all of Torah was Moshe MiPi
HaGvurah. Does anyone have any more information on such a letter or on
opinions of other Rishonim in this area?

Also, when the angels leave Avraham (Genesis 18:22), G-d is still there
being as he had not yet left since "Vayera", but the Passuk says that
Avraham still stood before G-d. Rashi explains that "Tikun Sofrim Hu Ze"
to say the more respectable, "And Abraham was still standing before G-d"
rather than the reverse. In some editions, Rashi goes on to say, "Asher
Hufchuhu Zichronam LiVracha Lichtov Ken" which seems to very clearly say
that Chazal changed the actual text.

I would appreciate any enlightenment in this field.



From: Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz <sabbahillel@...>
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 17:44:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Grama-operated electric wheelchair

> From: Joel Goldberg <joel@...>
> So, yes R' Auerbach gave his approval, but he also refused to publicise
> it, which has had the effect of allowing others to claim that his
> approval was withheld. I have no information as to why R' Auerbach
> withheld his permission to publicise his approval.

 From what I have been told (so this is hearsay only), this type of psak
would be done in a case where the danger of people misreading the
approval and applying it to other cases inappropriately was too great.

As an example, what if in your case it was approved because of the
particular area in Yerushalayim where it was being used?  If someone
would think that it applied to that type of wheelchair anywhere, or even
another wheelchair of a similar type, or ...

Note that this is speculation only as to a possibility not a definite

Said the fox to the fish, "Join me ashore" | Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz
 Jews are the fish, Torah is our water | Zovchai Adam, agalim yishakun


From: David Riceman <driceman@...>
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 1956 22:21:22 +0000
Subject: Jewish Jurors

Hi: I find myself writing about halachic issues for Jewish jurors (in
the US).  Two desiderata:

1.  Bibliographic references (especially published teshuvoth)?

2.  Personal anecdotes about the relationship between your obligations
as a juror and as a Jew?

Thank you.

David Riceman


From: Shlomo B Abeles <sba@...>
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 01:42:37 +1000
Subject: The Kitzur Shulchan Aruch

>Binyomin Segal wrote
>While I agree that the Kitzur is very popular, and frequently used, I
>believe that is despite the fact that it is NOT very accepted.

I think it was very well accepted - until the Mishna Berura - which is
more in depth and brings various opinions - arrived.

>It is used in classrooms (but rarely in the Beis Medrash

I think there are 2 reasons for that. 1) A Beis hamedrash Talmid -
should be studying much more in depth than the sefer KSA.  In fact in
most Hungarian and Chassidic Yeshivos - rather than only study Mishne
Berura - they learn the Taz and Mogen Avrohom and only then the MB.
After all you cannot become a Posek from KSA (or for that matter from
the MB). 2) A bit of snobbery - KSA is only for kids - not us lomdim.

OTOH a Maggid Shiur I know, when telling his Yeshiva Ketana classes to
learn Hilchos Shabbos - advises them that as these halachos are many and
not the easiest to comprehend to first go thru the Hilchos Shabbos in
KSA - to get some basic knowledge and background on the subject matter
and then to study the MB and other sources.

>Notice too that the new editions often include other opinions.
>I would bet that two of the most popular
>editions currently are the Kitzur with "Divrei Mishna
>Brura" and "Piskei Mishna Brura"

Sure, and I'm sure such comments were made about the Mechaber and Remo
once the Taz and Mogen Avrohom were published...

>As a teacher myself I can't imagine using the Kitzur in a class without
>first - at least - checking my copy of "Divrei MB".

And so you should, and I have no doubt that the Baal KSA would strongly



From: Eli Turkel <turkel@...>
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 09:57:01 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: Rav Soloveitchik's works

 David Curwin asks about some books and indices about Rav Soloveitchik.
As I previously mentioned I have an uptodate bibliography on my web site
at http://www.math.tau.ac.il/~turkel/engsol.html As it is very hard to
keep track of of the many articles and books that appear I would
appreciate any input and suggestion from members of the list.  To the
best of my knowledge the books that Krone was working on were never
published. In particular some of the members of the Rav's family have
tried using legal procedures to prevent publication of the Rav's
works. In the last issue of Tradition there was a public apology for
publishing a translation of the Rav's hesped for his uncle without
getting written permission from Chaim Soloveitchik.

In addition there has been established an organization Toras Harav, that
intends to publish many of the manuscripts of R. Soloveitchik (I guess
under the auspices of the Rav's daughter - Tova). So far one book The
Family Redeemed has appeared and others seem to be on the way.  Others
on this list can give better information as I am an outsider.

As to an index I have written an index ordered according to both topic
and location in source Tanach/Talmud/Rambam etc. that covers the Rav's
works and also many of the works of Talmidim.  This is written in MS
ACCESS and MS WORD (both in Hebrew) and I hope to contact possible
publishers in the immediate future.

Kol Tuv,
Eli Turkel

From: Yael Aldrich <aldrich613@...>
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 22:39:56 EDT
Subject: Re: Rav Soloveitchik's works

>From: David and Toby Curwin <curwin@...>
>Lastly, has anyone ever attempted to make an index of the biblical and
>talmudic quotes in all of the Rav's works, Hebrew and English?  If not,
>and there aren't significant copyright problems, perhaps this could be a
>project for the Mail-Jewish community. Individuals could each take one
>book or article, go through it and write down the sources. The results
>could be put online. It could be a great resource, particularly for
>shiurim on parshat hashavua.

As I intern at Maimonides School in Brookline MA USA, I know that one of
goals of the new Soloveitchik Institute is to collect all of the Rav's
writings, published and not.  Maybe you should suggest to them this
project as well.

Yael Aldrich

From: Richard Goldberg <special@...>
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 16:20:18 -0400
Subject: RE: Rav Soloveitchik's works

this may not be exactly be what your looking for but take a look at
http://www.shamash.org/tanach/tanach/commentary/mj-ravtorah/ for a short
listing of shiurim by the Rav.

[Eli's bibliography is more comprehensive. mj-ravtorah are short peieces
based on tapes from the Rav's talks.



From: Frank Silbermann <fs@...>
Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 06:58:19 -0500 (CDT)
Subject:  Recordings for children

In Vol32 #16 Dovid Herskovic asks:
> ... we have a collection of cassettes and cd's to entertain (our children),
> some Jewish/chareidi, others non-jewish fairy tales and nursery rhymes etc.
> Both are for a similar age group.
> So why is it that almost without exception the English recordings all
> narrate or dramatise their stories in an intelligent manner with clear
> diction and a suitabale vocabulary while too many of the Jewish ones
> seem to think that unless you shout and sound semi-retarded the children
> will not grasp?

When looking for competent narrators and performers, the gentile world
in America has over 200 million people to draw from including thousands
of professional actors dedicated to their craft.  The size of the market
means that projection costs can be spread among many, many more
customers.  It's pure economics -- the same reasons that gentiles
manufacture better wristwatches and automobiles than frum people.

Our choices are to use what gentiles produce (to the extent Torah
permits), to learn from them (to the extent we can), or to do without.

Frank Silbermann
New Orleans, Louisiana


From: Russell Hendel <rhendel@...>
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 23:56:31 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: RE: Women and their obligation to Pray with A Minyan

Rena in v31n98 writes
>Women are not obligated ever to daven with a minyan, but this has

Actually according to the Rambam (a) All people (men/women) are
Biblically required to pray (Say Shmoneh Esray) when they have needs (b)
All people (men/women)achieve a higher status of prayer by praying with
a community (c) It is rabinically required to pray with a community (10
men) WHEN you have an obligation to pray.

I realize that the sources on prayer are very rich AND varied in both
Rishonim and Acharonim but I would not make a blanket statement that
women NEVER are required to daven with a minyan.

In a recent mail jewish I advanced the idea that the reason for a minyan
of TEN is to commemorate the sin of the spies-- the slander of only 10
spies destroyed the whole community. Thus every time we pray we remember
the importance of abstaining from slander---it would seem clear then
that BOTH men and women must perform this commemoration (even if women
did not participate in the sin of the spies...they still need to remind
themselves of the importance of this mitzvah).

Russell Jay Hendel; Phd ASA; <RHendel@...>
Moderator Rashi Is Simple


From: Sheldon Meth <SHELDON.Z.METH@...>
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 23:18:47 -0400
Subject: A Zeesen Pesach

In V32N14, Liz Muschel asks "Does anyone know the origin of the phrase
"have a zeesen pesach"?  (sweet) We were brought up wishing one another
a "chag kasher v'sameach",(kosher and joyous) and I am curious to know
exactly how and when "zeesen" came about."

I don't know the answer, but my Father always taught me to wish "A
Kusheren Purim," and "A Freilichen Pesach."  Why?  Because, he says,
everyone has a freilichen Purim, but the trick is to have a kusheren one
)i.e., not go overboard).  Similarly, with all the dikduk
[meticulousness] hadin for Pesach, everyone has a Kusherin Pesach.  The
trick is to relax, get a grip, and have a freilichen one.



End of Volume 32 Issue 19